Keolis/Amey to take over Wales and Borders

[mde]

Well highly impressive that apart from the winning bidder they have managed to say virtually nothing, unlike other franchises where we have had some level of detail even during the standstill period. Is it the case that many aspects of it are not very good and they are hoping everyone will forget about it.

It's all world class.

 

[Dai Corner]

Aaaand, like magic, here's the line from the RMT:


https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-response-to-announcement-on-welsh-rail-franchise/

though the bit the Welsh Government WILL have full control over is the bit that will be converted to tram operation (presumably without guards, and perhaps with lower-paid drivers).

It's all world class.

World-class secrecy!

 

[Mikey C]

A surprising lack of "goodies" announced. Usually they throw in some good news about new rolling stock at the same time

I can't help wondering how much difference the country outside Cardiff and its vicinity will notice

 

[Gareth Marston]

Sources close to the Welsh Government have told me that Head of Transport of Wales James Price was moved there (effectively a demotion) after the Circuit of Wales debacle of which his department in Welsh Government and himself personally was heavily involved. There seems to be a feeling he should have been shown the door not allowed to play with a trainset....

 

[PHILIPE]

Sources close to the Welsh Government have told me that Head of Transport of Wales James Price was moved there (effectively a demotion) after the Circuit of Wales debacle of which his department in Welsh Government and himself personally was heavily involved. There seems to be a feeling he should have been shown the door not allowed to play with a trainset....

Regular thing now. People in higher positions are unsackable and just get moved to another high profile job.

 

[CdBrux]

though the bit the Welsh Government WILL have full control over is the bit that will be converted to tram operation (presumably without guards, and perhaps with lower-paid drivers).

If guards are agreed for heavy rail and not for trams then that will simply add to the business case for trams.

 

[PR1Berske]

A surprising lack of "goodies" announced. Usually they throw in some good news about new rolling stock at the same time

I can't help wondering how much difference the country outside Cardiff and its vicinity will notice

It reminds me in a way of what happened when London Midland changed hands. There seemed to be very little in the way of any announcement - even the names of the franchise! - until a long time had passed.

 

[gareth950]

If guards are agreed for heavy rail and not for trams then that will simply add to the business case for trams.

A guard on every train should never have been agreed to so far in advance, but then Welsh Govt wanted to shut up/bribe the RMT early on.
E.g. a heavy rail metro in S Wales, with ticket inspectors on every train, is preferable to trams.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It reminds me in a way of what happened when London Midland changed hands. There seemed to be very little in the way of any announcement - even the names of the franchise! - until a long time had passed.

WG could announce the features of the franchise that were common to both bids.
However this time the bids might have been very different, so they would not want to make an announcement until they have signed a contract.
That and wanting to have a "big reveal" when it will make the most impact.
It might also give KA time to make their key appointments and be able to fill in some of the detail from their side.
There might still be detail to be agreed with the DfT (financing, the NR Valleys split and how to deal with the "English problem" for which WG are DfT's agent).

For once, the RMT doesn't lay into foreign state ownership, and merely castigates the franchising process.
They are stuck with it now for the next 15 years, however.
I don't know what the WG were doing in agreeing to a union deal before it had even let the franchise.
Seems like the cart before the horse to me.

 

[WatcherZero]

Only thing ive heard is Keolis Amey were offering cycling improvements while MTR wernt.

 

[WatcherZero]

TSSA seem to be taking the harder line RMT usually follows this morning.

TSSA respond to Keolis/Amey Welsh rail takeover
23 May 2018

TSSA is issuing warnings surrounding potential due diligence failures in the awarding of the selection of a new rail operating company to run the Arriva Wales Rail networks.
The Welsh Government have this morning (Tues) announced Keolis/Amey as a the new franchise operator for Wales & Borders train and South Wales Metrolink.
Keolis is 70% owned by SNCF – France’s state-owned railway operator – and 30% owned by Canadian pension fund, Caisse de depot et de placement du Québec.
Amey is owned by Ferrovial, one of the world's leading infrastructure operators and municipal services companies whose Head quarters are in Spain. But their largest share holder is the French state.

TSSA General Secretary, Manuel Cortes said.

"So the German state owned railway subsidiary Arriva is succeeded by Keolis and Amey. Instead of the Welsh tax payers subsidising the the railways of Berlin and Bonn, the'll be contributing to the railways of Paris and Provence.

This is not a good deal for the future of rail in wales and this announcement show that for all the talk shows that all political talk of devolution and taking back control, when it comes to rail infrastructure, it's all just hot air. In the interests of corporate transparency, the Welsh government should have issued this morning's press release on the proposed new franchise holders in French and Spanish as well as English and Welsh.

"What a wasted opportunity by the Welsh Assembly not to have sought public ownership of this franchise or at the very least, a not-for-profit operator. But madder still is that the Spanish and the French can follow in the tracks of the German government owned Arriva and run trains in Wales but not the Welsh government.

"I'm also concerned about the robustness of the due diligence checking process. A cursory glance at Ferrovial's website reveals they have just this month posted a huge and unexpected €161milion profit slump which they themselves blame on the fallout of Amey contracts with Birmingham City Council.

"We now have a two-week cooling off process before the deal is sealed. I urge the Welsh Government to use this time to urgently review the diligence process in light of Ferrovial's own admission to ensure Welsh tax payers don't end up paying for a bail-out, like we are doing on East Coast now."

 

[gareth950]

Only thing ive heard is Keolis Amey were offering cycling improvements while MTR wernt.

Presumably you will still be allowed to take your bicycle on any Valley lines trams then?
Banning bicycles from the Valley lines will not go down well, especially as the Taff Vale lines virtually run alongside the Taff Trail all the way from Merthyr to Cardiff. Bicycles on the Valley lines are a comon sight all year round.
Is there any tram system in the UK that lets you take full size bicycles on board?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Ferrovial's largest shareholder (44%) is the Spanish Del Pino family.
Keolis' largest shareholder is indeed effectively the French state (SNCF), with a Canadian pension fund for the rest.
But Amey (like Arriva) is run from the UK, has a large indigenous UK employment base and pays large UK taxes.
There was nothing to stop UK firms bidding - none did.

 

[felixthebadger]

That'll look lovely on a Pacer

Could be a revival of the Valley Lines livery they used to carry.

 

[urpert]

Red and White colors of Transport for Wales according to a source in Welsh Government.

Bring back the old Valley Lines livery!

 

[urpert]

Bring back the old Valley Lines livery!

ah, I see Felix The Badger got there first

 

[sprinterguy]

Could be a revival of the Valley Lines livery they used to carry.

Bring back the old Valley Lines livery!

Not if these eighteen month old travesties of design for the South Wales Metro are anything to go by...
https://www.invennt.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/metro-2-300x169.png
https://i2-prod.walesonline.co.uk/incoming/article10523757.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200/JS77682971JPG.jpg

An appropriately patriotic livery for the regional services outside of the Valley lines would be nice to see, though, but somehow I doubt it.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Not if these eighteen month old travesties of design for the South Wales Metro are anything to go by...
https://www.invennt.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/metro-2-300x169.png
https://i2-prod.walesonline.co.uk/incoming/article10523757.ece/ALTERNATES/s1200/JS77682971JPG.jpg

An appropriately patriotic livery for the regional services outside of the Valley lines would be nice to see, though, but somehow I doubt it.

I'm sure that will go down a storm in the Marches......

 

[sprinterguy]

I'm sure that will go down a storm in the Marches......

Will the majority of people really mind or notice what colour the trains are painted? Though you do raise a good point that the majority of the Wales & Borders regional services do operate a considerable mileage in England rather than Wales.

 

[tbtc]

TSSA seem to be taking the harder line RMT usually follows this morning.

TSSA General Secretary, Manuel Cortes said

...good to see that the TSSA have a sense of humour, getting Manuel Cortes to complain about the franchise being put in the hands of experienced competent people from continental Europe.

Maybe he's just unhappy that Amey's HQ is in Spain, whereas Snr Cortes hails from Gibraltar?

(can't really say much else about today's announcement until we see some red meat about what happens to Pacers/ 153s and whether trams are coming to Wales - I just love the idea of a bloke called Manuel Cortes complaining about foreign investment when even the RMT haven't gone down that route!)

 

[ashworth]

Will the majority of people really mind or notice what colour the trains are painted? Though you do raise a good point that the majority of the Wales & Borders regional services do operate a considerable mileage in England rather than Wales.

I don’t think most people in the Marches will really mind what colour the trains are painted, but when visiting that area of England, I do find that route appears extremely Welsh for a train service that travels a significant distance through England. I do understand the reason for all the Welsh Language notices and signage on the trains, but it does seem strange for passengers travelling the long distance between Manchester, Stockport, Crewe, Shrewsbury and Hereford for everything to appear so Welsh!
Now, I think all of the trains operating on the Marches route travel to/from destinations in South Wales but of course in the past a number of trains went to/from Bristol.

Interestingly I never find the Welsh language seeming so out of place on other routes from England into Wales like the North Wales Coast and the Cambrian Lines.

 

[JaJaWa]

Hmm. Must. Not. Be. Cynical.

Wonder what they'll call the new company.

IS this franchise one that will have a generic, non-operator specific brand, like LNER or GWR? Presumably all the stock will be rebranded?

As was previously announced...

TfW to replace operators’ branding

• Rail (UK)
• 30 Aug 2017

Transport for Wales’ (TfW’s) aim is to become a counterpart to Transport for London, awarding contracts for rail and (where appropriate) other transport modes with a single overarching brand. This means that when the new operator takes over in October 2018, the trains will be branded as Transport for Wales, not an individual operator. This branding is also expected to be used on some bus services. Long—term plans include better integration between public transport modes, through ticketing, and better co—ordinated timetables to make it easier for passengers to use public transport for their entire journeys in Wales.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Now, I think all of the trains operating on the Marches route travel to/from destinations in South Wales but of course in the past a number of trains went to/from Bristol.

Shrewsbury-Crewe locals call only at English stations, of course.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

As was previously announced...

But "& Borders" has to appear somewhere, certainly in England, by DfT insistence.
WG has responsibilities to English users as well as Welsh.

 

[gareth950]

Plaid's Adam Price having a go at Skates and TfW, right pointing out that they still haven't realised the ITT. Was there one?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/44224359

Mr Price said: "The bidding process has been flawed from start to finish - this extends to the nature of the announcement, a one-page written statement for a £5bn project just before recess is inexcusable.

"The government hasn't even published its Invitation to Tender which it must do today so we know exactly what they asked for."

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Plaid's Adam Price having a go at Skates and TfW, right pointing out that they still haven't realised the ITT. Was there one?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/44224359

Except that the bids apparently "far exceeded" what WG asked for.

 

[gareth950]

Except that the bids apparently "far exceeded" what WG asked for.

Makes you wonder why they are so reluctant to tell us what they asked for then. There are absolutely no reasons left for them to keep hiding the ITT from scrutiny.

 

[Mag_seven]

The company said while the changes would not happen overnight Wales' railway "would be unrecognisable" in five years time.

What's welsh for "Jam Tomorrow"?

 

[Gareth Marston]

Plaid's Adam Price having a go at Skates and TfW, right pointing out that they still haven't realised the ITT. Was there one?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/44224359

Open Government it certainly hasn't been.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Makes you wonder why they are so reluctant to tell us what they asked for then. There are absolutely no reasons left for them to keep hiding the ITT from scrutiny.

Could seem lack they had a lack of ambition.