Virgin Trains East Coast franchise to end 24 June 2018 and is temporarily re-nationalised

[SaveECRewards]

Free travel is the only benefit I use, so that's good with me!

Ah yes, I forgot about Tribe...that goes as well, but I never had access to that in the first place so I'm not bothered. There was also free Duty/Residential travel on Northern (between YRK-LDS) and on GTR for somewhere (don't remember where) which I would also assume would stay. I wonder how many VTEC staff actually used VTWC or EMT for anything other than leisure.

GTR was Great Northern at least, that deal has been in place for a long time. I know a lot of KGX based crew are based along the Great Northern route so this is handy for them. It's quite a good benefit of the rail industry as travel is quite an expense for those working in London but living outside of it to escape the extortionate rents (or find somewhere more spacious for the same money).

Pretty sure most people only used the VTWC and EMT benefits for leisure, although it would have opened up the possibility for VTEC staff to commute from the likes of Milton Keynes or Bedford free of charge.

 

[TUC]

Given that the DfT has recently been setting requirements that companies bidding for franchies should have existing rail operations experience, in what way do the three companies behind LNER fulfil this?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Given that the DfT has recently been setting requirements that companies bidding for franchies should have existing rail operations experience, in what way do the three companies behind LNER fulfil this?

They are not bidding for a franchise therefore it does not apply to them.

 

[Goldfish62]

LNER is old East Coast! Flying Scotsman!! Mallard!!

Perhaps LNER is the brand that the DfT wish to retain long term for the franchise, irrespective of who runs it. East Coast was a bit bland as a brand, I always thought.

 

[yorksrob]

Perhaps LNER is the brand that the DfT wish to retain long term for the franchise, irrespective of who runs it. East Coast was a bit bland as a brand, I always thought.

"InterCity East Coast" would have had more pazzaz about it than plain East Coast, but probably wouldn't have suited the ideologues running the country.

 

[ainsworth74]

Perhaps LNER is the brand that the DfT wish to retain long term for the franchise, irrespective of who runs it. East Coast was a bit bland as a brand, I always thought.

I think everything that's been said suggest that this is going to be the brand of the franchise/partnership going forward.


Personally I still think that this whole idea of long term brands that can be transferred between franchises is just a long game by the DfT to force Virgin out of the railway market. If they cannot emblazon their brand everywhere then are they really going to bid?

"InterCity East Coast" would have had more pazzaz about it than plain East Coast, but probably wouldn't have suited the ideologues running the country.

What, the Labour party?

 

[yorksrob]

I think everything that's been said suggest that this is going to be the brand of the franchise/partnership going forward.


Personally I still think that this whole idea of long term brands that can be transferred between franchises is just a long game by the DfT to force Virgin out of the railway market. If they cannot emblazon their brand everywhere then are they really going to bid?


What, the Labour party?

Yes, "New Labour"

 

[Alan2603]

A question I couldn't find an answer to.

Virgin East Coast had planned to reduce/close the Travel Centre at York and (importantly for me who uses/changes at York a lot) were going to create a First Class Lounge (at long last).

With the demise of VTEC next month, will these plans now be quashed/stalled, or will they go ahead under the new operator?Or will it be a case of it is up to the new operator to decide?

Thanks

 

[TUC]

They are not bidding for a franchise therefore it does not apply to them.

I know they're not bidding, but if the government thinks past experience is important as a principle, isn't it every bit as much relevant here? (In fact, given the short notice nature of the takeover, isn't it even more important?)

 

[StephenHunter]

Do you actually remember the 1990s? In general I think class 150s and (if you were unlucky) Pacers replaced old DMU's - and hourly loco-hauled services between Liverpool and Newcastle were replaced by 3 Sprinters an hour. I think some L/H services in the south (the Bristol - Weymouth boat train, and London - Salisbury - Exeter services) sadly went that way too but there weren't many surviving L/H routes by then anyway. Cardiff - Crewe (or Manchester?) and some Scottish services...

I remember the tail end of NSE, yes. Especially the grotty 312s on LTS.

 

[mpthomson]

A question I couldn't find an answer to.

Virgin East Coast had planned to reduce/close the Travel Centre at York and (importantly for me who uses/changes at York a lot) were going to create a First Class Lounge (at long last).

With the demise of VTEC next month, will these plans now be quashed/stalled, or will they go ahead under the new operator?Or will it be a case of it is up to the new operator to decide?

Thanks

I'd be very surprised if it happens under DOR. Last time it was DOR there was basically no investment in anything, and I can't see that changing this time round either. Whilst the new plans looked great presentationally I'm not convinced they were going to change anything in terms of efficiency or a 'better' customer experience.

 

[tgillbert]

Hi all,

Would anyone know or be willing share (if known), who is coordinating the livery requirements from VTEC to LNER? With such a short time frame, I don't envy them with this task! I have some contacts who may be able to help out.

 

[CdBrux]

Hi all,

Would anyone know or be willing share (if known), who is coordinating the livery requirements from VTEC to LNER? With such a short time frame, I don't envy them with this task! I have some contacts who may be able to help out.

Is that your mate 'Big Dave' from down the Nags Head?

 

[mpthomson]

Hi all,

Would anyone know or be willing share (if known), who is coordinating the livery requirements from VTEC to LNER? With such a short time frame, I don't envy them with this task! I have some contacts who may be able to help out.

I rather suspect that the only livery changes, given that the colours on the LNER corporate pics are the same red as Virgin uses, will be removal of the vinyl that says Virgin and replacing it with one that has the LNER logo on it. In addition this will have been programmed some mths ago and will just require a 'go live'\start date.

There's no need to do anything else more complex and to do so would just be a waste of money.

 

[tgillbert]

True, didn't think of that. Will be interesting to see how the service performs come June time!

 

[CharlieSpotted]

I think everything that's been said suggest that this is going to be the brand of the franchise/partnership going forward.

Personally I still think that this whole idea of long term brands that can be transferred between franchises is just a long game by the DfT to force Virgin out of the railway market. If they cannot emblazon their brand everywhere then are they really going to bid?

I wonder if these new branding requirements would allow them do something along the lines of what Arriva have recently done with CrossCountry.

Would a branding of "LNER by Virgin Trains" be acceptable, for example?

 

[Bornin1980s]

An employee told me that the carriages will be grey.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I remember the tail end of NSE, yes. Especially the grotty 312s on LTS.

When the principal stabling depot did not have a carriage washer (Shoeburyness) ...things much improved as time went on .....anyway so in the past , hardly worth noting. You want to see filthy trains in and out - try the LT+S pre NSE ! ....

 

[SaveECRewards]

An employee told me that the carriages will be grey.

Probably watching my video!

Making the carriages grey would require a repaint on the HSTs as they still had the grey and white NXEC livery under the VTEC vinyl and you can see on the video that Virgin have dabbed lots of paint on it round the doors and windows so they can't just peel the vinyl off without it looking a mess.

As the mk 4 carriages were painted more recently by EC it may be a case you could peel those off and get back to EC grey but I'd not know for certain.

As the only Virgin logos are on the powercar/loco/dvt then it seems easier to leave the carriages as is and then just change the ends.

 

[SteveT]

What was at fault here: the contract drawn up by HMG or the VTEC's bid? Will the OOLR be given a new contract?

Listening to reporting and public debate on the media demonstrates how little understanding there is of the system. Some think that a few desk-johnnies at DfT HQ will be running the ECML.

 

[yorksrob]

Perhaps Sir John Major will finally get his wish of recreating the big four !

An employee told me that the carriages will be grey.

I did say John Major was finally getting his wish

 

[corsaVXR]

i saw an East Coast uniform today - I think some staff are ready to say goodbye already

 

[nottsnurse]

Would a branding of "LNER by Virgin Trains" be acceptable, for example?

I shouldn't think so, given Virgin Trains won't be involved with running LNER.

 

[AlexNL]

What was at fault here: the contract drawn up by HMG or the VTEC's bid? Will the OOLR be given a new contract?

As far as my understanding goes: Virgin/Stagecoach's bid was based on a number of assumptions which didn't materialise. Infrastructure changes necessary to provide the full bid weren't being realised, and there are less passengers than anticipated due to low fuel prices.

 

[The Ham]

"InterCity East Coast" would have had more pazzaz about it than plain East Coast, but probably wouldn't have suited the ideologues running the country.

The possible problem with having Intercity in the title is that it's due to gain a load of non Intercity services. Also going forward it could well be that many of the current passengers could be included to use HS2.

As such it's likely to be more along the lines of the long distance SWR services (i.e. 444's) than intercity (i.e. Mark 4's and locos).

 

[pt_mad]

Would a branding of "LNER by Virgin Trains" be acceptable, for example?

I shouldn't think so, given Virgin Trains won't be involved with running LNER.

I am assuming the poster meant, would this be an acceptable brand for a bid for the future ECP.

And I would assume it would be. Or LNER, operated by Virgin Trains.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The possible problem with having Intercity in the title is that it's due to gain a load of non Intercity services. Also going forward it could well be that many of the current passengers could be included to use HS2.
As such it's likely to be more along the lines of the long distance SWR services (i.e. 444's) than intercity (i.e. Mark 4's and locos).

It will end up (c2033) as a glorified Great Northern.
Leeds and anything north of York will be refocussed on HS2 from Euston.

 

[yorksrob]

The possible problem with having Intercity in the title is that it's due to gain a load of non Intercity services. Also going forward it could well be that many of the current passengers could be included to use HS2.

As such it's likely to be more along the lines of the long distance SWR services (i.e. 444's) than intercity (i.e. Mark 4's and locos).

True, but I understood we were musing on the origins of the original "East Coast", rather than LNER.

 

[SaveECRewards]

Would a branding of "LNER by Virgin Trains" be acceptable, for example?

I am assuming the poster meant, would this be an acceptable brand for a bid for the future ECP.

And I would assume it would be. Or LNER, operated by Virgin Trains.

I saw a tweet from Sam Jessup (former designer of VT (both coasts)) he said the DfT wanted them to keep the East Coast brand (with just a small mention of Virgin) they were having none of it! SOURCE

I don't think Virgin would be interested in anything they couldn't brand in their own style.

 

[matt_world2004]

I saw a tweet from Sam Jessup (former designer of VT (both coasts)) he said the DfT wanted them to keep the East Coast brand (with just a small mention of Virgin) they were having none of it! SOURCE

I don't think Virgin would be interested in anything they couldn't brand in their own style.

For clarification; so VTEC were going to hand back the contract because it was too expensive. The DfT were going to renegotiate the contract on so they ran it on a management only basis with one of those conditions. They dropped the VTEC branding and they refused that condition. Which seems a pretty minor condition considering VTEC failed.

EDIT: Re read the tweet and it seems to be talking about the original franchise not the new one sorry. Ignore above. - Keeping the rest of the message for posterity