Stagecoach Group (Group-wide matters)

[GusB]

Quick question - I travelled back from Inverness to Elgin on one of the "new" batch of Elites on service 10 this evening. I was using an Explorer ticket, and after such a long day I completely forgot to take note of the fleet, or reg number. I'm assuming it's one of the YX67URx batch. Can anyone tell me if these have i-shift transmissions, or have they gone back to the ZF autos?

 

[Mwanesh]

Quick question - I travelled back from Inverness to Elgin on one of the "new" batch of Elites on service 10 this evening. I was using an Explorer ticket, and after such a long day I completely forgot to take note of the fleet, or reg number. I'm assuming it's one of the YX67URx batch. Can anyone tell me if these have i-shift transmissions, or have they gone back to the ZF autos?

Elites are all I-shift.Never have been Voith.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Is the colour scheme on this Chesterfield Dart (35114) replicated elsewhere in the Stagecoach Empire, or is just a local thing?

It's the new corporate scheme, but how much light blue is on the front seems to depend on the shape of the front panels.

You can see similar on this coach on Falcon (formerly of the North east), not my photo:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/30461364@N04/27694663877/

 

[GusB]

Elites are all I-shift.Never have been Voith.

Thanks. I was fairly sure they were i-shift, but the way it changed up, it felt more like a ZF 'box. Either the i-shift has become a lot smoother compared to earlier examples I've experienced, or I'm guessing it's because it's still fairly new.

All in all, it was quite a pleasant trip home. Comfy seats, the aircon did its job wonderfully on what was a roaster of a day, and the USB charging point was a godsend. My outward journey was on an E300, and my back is still feeling it!

 

[johnw]

No plans for East Scotland to ditch their Versas just yet - not that you'd replace them with Solos anyway.
It wasn't Kent that were originally getting the Panther LEs.
St Andrews new MMCs have group standard Practico seats - not sure what the excitement is?

The East Kent allocation was from an article in the latest ‘Buses’ magazine.

The X7 Northampton- Leicester was an United Counties ‘coacnlinks’ route which at one time was extended to Nottingham and was run with Mildland Fox. Coaches were mainly used.

I didn’t see a problem the other day with elderly people using their free bus pass, with sticks, getting on the X5 Volvo Plaxton elites for a free trip to Cambridge......

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The East Kent allocation was from an article in the latest ‘Buses’ magazine.

The X7 Northampton- Leicester was an United Counties ‘coacnlinks’ route which at one time was extended to Nottingham and was run with Mildland Fox. Coaches were mainly used.

I didn’t see a problem the other day with elderly people using their free bus pass, with sticks, getting on the X5 Volvo Plaxton elites for a free trip to Cambridge......

The route then (X61) was much more an interurban limited stop. Today, it loops around Kibworth and, more importantly, acts as the local service from Grange Park and through Northampton up via Kingsthorpe and Brixworth.

In comparison, the X5 really is an interurban route, save a bit around St Neots IIRC, though not done it for 2/3 years.

 

[goldisgood]

The route then (X61) was much more an interurban limited stop. Today, it loops around Kibworth and, more importantly, acts as the local service from Grange Park and through Northampton up via Kingsthorpe and Brixworth.

In comparison, the X5 really is an interurban route, save a bit around St Neots IIRC, though not done it for 2/3 years.

Without knowing the area, it doesn't seem too much like a local service for the main part... it has 5 stops between the bus interchange and Roade, with 4 of them on the main road, and one on the outskirts of Grange Park. It skips 6 other stops, and it could probably skip even more stops. North of Northampton, as you said, it is the local service to Brixworth, but it could skip more stops up to Kingsthorpe as it is covered well by other services. The loop around Kibworth is only 3 stops. I'd say that the only part where it is the exclusive local service is between Northampton and Brixworth, as there are alternatives from Grange Park.
I'd say that low floor coaches like the new ones at Scotland could be a good fit for this route, but a few more stops between Northampton and Kingsthorpe should be removed as well as a few stops between Oadby and Leicester, or maybe drop off/pick up only? The X7 is really an interurban express route, although it serves a few more stops around Northampton, Market Harborough and Leicester.
Whilst high-floor coaches may not be the best fit for the route, the current Enviro 300s which don't even have high back seats aren't suitable for the route at all. I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd like to see low-floor coaches on the route in the next few years.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Without knowing the area, it doesn't seem too much like a local service for the main part... it has 5 stops between the bus interchange and Roade, with 4 of them on the main road, and one on the outskirts of Grange Park. It skips 6 other stops, and it could probably skip even more stops. North of Northampton, as you said, it is the local service to Brixworth, but it could skip more stops up to Kingsthorpe as it is covered well by other services. The loop around Kibworth is only 3 stops. I'd say that the only part where it is the exclusive local service is between Northampton and Brixworth, as there are alternatives from Grange Park.
I'd say that low floor coaches like the new ones at Scotland could be a good fit for this route, but a few more stops between Northampton and Kingsthorpe should be removed as well as a few stops between Oadby and Leicester, or maybe drop off/pick up only? The X7 is really an interurban express route, although it serves a few more stops around Northampton, Market Harborough and Leicester.
Whilst high-floor coaches may not be the best fit for the route, the current Enviro 300s which don't even have high back seats aren't suitable for the route at all. I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd like to see low-floor coaches on the route in the next few years.

I do know the area. It was my local route (I proudly had an NN7 postcode and had the awful Andrea Leadsom as my MP). The 7's only run every 30 mins so the diversion of the X4/X7 means they have an important role in serving Grange Park and especially providing a faster link than being dragged all round Wootton. Also, the diversion around Grange Park is also important in providing a link from there to Milton Keynes which, to the uninitiated, is quite popular for Northamptonians (given how lousy the town's own shopping is - not to be helped by M&S closing there). Therefore, whilst there are alternatives in the 7, these are not good alternatives.

On the northern edge of town, I know what you mean about the number of services running via Kingsthorpe. Again, you do get passengers from there to CMK (amazing, I know) but also it serves the top bit towards Boughton where, incidentally, a lot of new housing is springing up.

Granted, from Kibworth Harcourt into Leicester, or from Roade into CMK, then yes the X7 is very much a happy bounce along the A508. However, this is the danger of merely looking at a map - there's more to it than meets the eye.

Personally, I'd not be surprised to see it get converted to Gold standard with e200mmc so that there's some commonality with the X4 from Northampton to CMK. That said, I'd expected that some time ago and it still hasn't happened Instead, they converted the X46/X47 rather oddly

 

[goldisgood]

I do know the area. It was my local route (I proudly had an NN7 postcode and had the awful Andrea Leadsom as my MP). The 7's only run every 30 mins so the diversion of the X4/X7 means they have an important role in serving Grange Park and especially providing a faster link than being dragged all round Wootton. Also, the diversion around Grange Park is also important in providing a link from there to Milton Keynes which, to the uninitiated, is quite popular for Northamptonians (given how lousy the town's own shopping is - not to be helped by M&S closing there). Therefore, whilst there are alternatives in the 7, these are not good alternatives.

On the northern edge of town, I know what you mean about the number of services running via Kingsthorpe. Again, you do get passengers from there to CMK (amazing, I know) but also it serves the top bit towards Boughton where, incidentally, a lot of new housing is springing up.

Granted, from Kibworth Harcourt into Leicester, or from Roade into CMK, then yes the X7 is very much a happy bounce along the A508. However, this is the danger of merely looking at a map - there's more to it than meets the eye.

Personally, I'd not be surprised to see it get converted to Gold standard with e200mmc so that there's some commonality with the X4 from Northampton to CMK. That said, I'd expected that some time ago and it still hasn't happened Instead, they converted the X46/X47 rather oddly

Would it be feasible to run even more limited stop through Northampton, but still serve a few main stops, like the Oxford Tube/X90 do between Oxford and Thornhill? eg skip Bective Road, and northbound stops between Northampton and Kingsthorpe, then skip the Burger King stop and Old Towcester Road south of Northampton? Like I said previously, I don't know the area at all but the limited settlements between areas and the predominantly limited stop nature of the route makes me think that with a few tweaks it could be coach operated. This could also lead to a faster, comfier journey whilst allowing most journeys to still be made, even if there is a small walk required.

 

[Robertj21a]

Would it be feasible to run even more limited stop through Northampton, but still serve a few main stops, like the Oxford Tube/X90 do between Oxford and Thornhill? eg skip Bective Road, and northbound stops between Northampton and Kingsthorpe, then skip the Burger King stop and Old Towcester Road south of Northampton? Like I said previously, I don't know the area at all but the limited settlements between areas and the predominantly limited stop nature of the route makes me think that with a few tweaks it could be coach operated. This could also lead to a faster, comfier journey whilst allowing most journeys to still be made, even if there is a small walk required.

Sorry, but it's obvious that you just don't know the area at all. It doesn't need coaches, it's just an interurban route serving numerous villages. Cutting out stops won't save any significant time as the service is restricted by the fairly slow roads throughout most of its length. It's been steadily building up custom, from a far less frequent service, and the last thing it needs is for some of the stops to be cut out.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Would it be feasible to run even more limited stop through Northampton, but still serve a few main stops, like the Oxford Tube/X90 do between Oxford and Thornhill? eg skip Bective Road, and northbound stops between Northampton and Kingsthorpe, then skip the Burger King stop and Old Towcester Road south of Northampton? Like I said previously, I don't know the area at all but the limited settlements between areas and the predominantly limited stop nature of the route makes me think that with a few tweaks it could be coach operated. This could also lead to a faster, comfier journey whilst allowing most journeys to still be made, even if there is a small walk required.

Are we not trying to reverse engineer this? Cutting out stops and reducing travel options (such as from Hardingstone and Kingsthorpe - think of the uni students) and the like to accommodate vehicles that aren't really suitable? Is there a big market for CMK to Leicester because, if there is, I've not witnessed it. Remember that the extension to CMK was only introduced about 5/6 years ago - that doubled the frequency from Northampton and Grange Park etc to CMK. The X prefix is a misnomer (as per the X4) and the reality is that the X7 wears a number of different hats - it is part inter-urban such as Northampton/Roade to CMK or from Harborough and Kibworth into Leicester, and I really do acknowledge that. However, to effectively do that, it also needs to pick up/set down through Northampton, whether that be Hardingstone, Kingsthorpe and Grange Park. It is also an important local service for Brixworth et al in the North or from Grange Park into Northampton.

Really, some Gold e200mmc as per the 48 or the Welsh 120/130/132 would be a much better bet especially when viewed against the competition from Arriva's Sapphire from Harborough into Leicester.

If we're looking for a home for some pre-enjoyed coaches, there are probably some better bets but hey, that's just my opinion.

 

[overthewater]

I thought we were trying to figure out who order the nine low floor coaches?

 

[alex397]

The East Kent allocation was from an article in the latest ‘Buses’ magazine.
.

I saw this too. I can't really think of any routes they would be suitable for in East Kent. Most of the high-profile routes have large numbers of passengers in the school peaks, and the inter-urban routes are also very much local bus services. Was it a mistake in the article?

 

[E-Rail]

I saw this too. I can't really think of any routes they would be suitable for in East Kent. Most of the high-profile routes have large numbers of passengers in the school peaks, and the inter-urban routes are also very much local bus services. Was it a mistake in the article?

Rumours of Megabus operations from Canterbury to London from September have been flying around for a while now. Given the recent management track record, such a stupid idea probably can't be ruled out.

 

[overthewater]

Student market? Could be useful for those poor students?

 

[E-Rail]

Student market? Could be useful for those poor students?

Apparently, yes, it stems from a perceived demand from students but the NX routes into Kent have been dying for years now and it would take a brave person to try and break even running up and down the M2.

 

[Cesarcollie]

Rumours of Megabus operations from Canterbury to London from September have been flying around for a while now. Given the recent management track record, such a stupid idea probably can't be ruled out.

I suspect decisions on new Megabus routes would be taken centrally, not by local OpCos.

 

[E-Rail]

I suspect decisions on new Megabus routes would be taken centrally, not by local OpCos.

It seems not. It appears business cases are made locally and vehicle bids submitted in the same way as they are for beachball motors.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I thought we were trying to figure out who order the nine low floor coaches?

Apologies - I was thinking new coaches into an OpCo and that cascades to the X7. Whether new or cascaded fleet, the X7 is not the place for coaches.

As for other homes for new vehicles, the e400s on the 66 Swindon to Oxford are looking rather scabby now - travelled on one at Easter with rainwater dripping on my head! There are a few Gold routes with those 2011 vintage machines (S1/2/5, 66) that could definitely do with a refurbishment at the very least, if not some new fleet.

Interesting that Stagecoach's reduced order book hasn't attracted the attention that First's did.

 

[Typhoon]

Apparently, yes, it stems from a perceived demand from students but the NX routes into Kent have been dying for years now and it would take a brave person to try and break even running up and down the M2.

NX routes in Kent have been reducing but it is conceivable that a dedicated service (possibly term times only) might pay off. Canterbury has two Universities, all journeys could go via University of Kent (including Parkwood - student accommodation village) which is out of town (city), free advertising on Uni buses, they could throw in a 'free'* return journey with a Unirider ticket.

Would it succeed? No idea - but it might be worth them considering.

I have no solution to the M2 - but neither, as far as I know, has anyone else!

* - not really free because they would hoik up the cost of a Unirider to make allowance.

 

[tbtc]

It's the new corporate scheme, but how much light blue is on the front seems to depend on the shape of the front panels.

You can see similar on this coach on Falcon (formerly of the North east), not my photo:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/30461364@N04/27694663877/

Interesting - cheers.

The old beachball livery worked reasonably well, but changes to the fronts of buses over the years seem to have made Stagecoach reluctant to use it fully.

I guess its similar to Lothian Buses, where they have designed an entire livery around the diagonal shape of the glass staircase - make the livery fit around the shape of the vehicle (rather than forcing it on).

I'm not a fan of the blue patches on the front of newer "beachball" vehicles but can see why they are that way - shapes of a lot of modern buses (and the large areas of glass) don't really suit the swoops.

Interesting that Stagecoach's reduced order book hasn't attracted the attention that First's did.

Good point

 

[overthewater]

I didn't notice TGW point about the lack of attention over the reduced number of buses being brought. I did say it still better than some others ie arriva.

I beleive it's because stagecoach at least invests every year and its fleet is alot younger. Unlike first who kept on missing years and has extended the life of it's own fleet.

We still don't know what first order book is for 2017 to 2019.

 

[Robertj21a]

Apologies - I was thinking new coaches into an OpCo and that cascades to the X7. Whether new or cascaded fleet, the X7 is not the place for coaches.

As for other homes for new vehicles, the e400s on the 66 Swindon to Oxford are looking rather scabby now - travelled on one at Easter with rainwater dripping on my head! There are a few Gold routes with those 2011 vintage machines (S1/2/5, 66) that could definitely do with a refurbishment at the very least, if not some new fleet.

Interesting that Stagecoach's reduced order book hasn't attracted the attention that First's did.

I had assumed that any Stagecoach order for Manchester might have been put on the back burner while they await franchising events there - it wouldn't apply to First as they're trying to sell off their Manchester operations.

 

[Dentonian]

I had assumed that any Stagecoach order for Manchester might have been put on the back burner while they await franchising events there - it wouldn't apply to First as they're trying to sell off their Manchester operations.

Trouble with that stance is that it would add to the argument for reregulation. A bit unfair overall as it's First and Arrival who have consistently under invested in GM. However it is Stagecoach who are most vociferous in opposing Reform whilst also running more and more older E400s on routes that hybrid s and MMCs were bought for. Besides, I get the impression that Bus Reform is falling further and further down Andy Burnham's priorities. Ironically it's Northern Rail that's partly to blame for this.

 

[overthewater]

it wouldn't apply to First as they're trying to sell off their Manchester operations.

Are first really trying to sell it off?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I didn't notice TGW point about the lack of attention over the reduced number of buses being brought. I did say it still better than some others ie arriva.

I beleive it's because stagecoach at least invests every year and its fleet is alot younger. Unlike first who kept on missing years and has extended the life of it's own fleet.

We still don't know what first order book is for 2017 to 2019.

I don’t get caught up on the hysteria, endlessly wondering why they hadn’t announced.

Criticise First if you wish but it was clear that they had a plan involving new fleet, refurbishment and cutting of the PVR - rather like Stagecoach!

 

[goldisgood]

Apologies - I was thinking new coaches into an OpCo and that cascades to the X7. Whether new or cascaded fleet, the X7 is not the place for coaches.

As for other homes for new vehicles, the e400s on the 66 Swindon to Oxford are looking rather scabby now - travelled on one at Easter with rainwater dripping on my head! There are a few Gold routes with those 2011 vintage machines (S1/2/5, 66) that could definitely do with a refurbishment at the very least, if not some new fleet.

I agree that new fleet should come for the S1/2 and 66. The S5's will last at least another year or two, as most are in decent condition.

 

[overthewater]

I don’t get caught up on the hysteria, endlessly wondering why they hadn’t announced.

Criticise First if you wish but it was clear that they had a plan involving new fleet, refurbishment and cutting of the PVR - rather like Stagecoach!

There good reason to Criticise, there mismanaged lead to its current problems and its current plan isn't what was going expected. I would be nice to know what is coming I do have faith Glasgow will get some more new stock later this yeas.

 

[Robertj21a]

Are first really trying to sell it off?

I gather discussions have been under way for some time now.

 

[overthewater]

I gather discussions have been under way for some time now.

Cheers for the information, Very surprised there want rid of all of it. But who would want to buy it..