Carmarthen to Aberystwyth Reopening?

[Gareth Marston]

BCR is not an infallible law of science, it is simply a fashionable modelling system. It may be genuinely useful in some respects, but it should not be simplistically venerated. Contrarily there is good evidence from a data set nearly a hundred years long proving new roads also create more traffic in general and cause more traffic on the roads they were supposed to replace and have little effect on job creation yet they usually do all right with their BCR I assume ! as they get built regardless. Whilst the following statement is about as scientific as a BCR I will nonetheless make it. Roads get a free pass and chocolates and flowers from the orthodox planners. Railways wherever they are planned to go get nowt, if you want them across rural areas you are lucky if all you get is ridicule. We have a great many Mr Toads in modern Britain “Poop Poop” to all of you on here !!

There all frightened that you might force them to take public transport whereas its OK to force people to drive by not having adequate public transport.

 

[gallafent]

Roads get a free pass and chocolates and flowers from the orthodox planners.

(my emboldening).

Planners that actually do the modelling properly reveal interesting, but, as you say, unorthodox, results … evidence-based planning, who knew! The real kicker comes when removing roads improves traffic flow. Not really applicable in bucolic west Wales, but (since this thread seems to have drifted so far anyway) a little bit further east, the £1.3b which is being spent on the M4 relief road, while electrification to Swansea (at a cost which might optimistically be achieved of £150m, original estimate £433m) is on hold, indicates a certain degree of bias. I wonder what other transit improvements in the area of the M4 relief road could be achieved for the >£1b cost.

https://grist.org/infrastructure/2011-04-04-seoul-korea-tears-down-an-urban-highway-life-goes-on/ — long article, relevant quotes below.

“Hwang developed a traffic model to see what would happen if they took out what was considered a vital traffic artery carrying 168,000 cars per day. In the model, he included adjustments to other streets and increased transit to see if Seoul could survive without the freeway.

“The results of the model surprised him: not only could it work, but it would actually improve travel times in downtown Seoul.

“But the model was the easy part. Getting public and political buy-in was going to be harder — not to mention that people kept telling him this was “suicide” as a transportation planner and that if the project were built it would create “gridlock!” and “traffic chaos!””

In the end, it worked.

 

[RT4038]

(my emboldening).

Planners that actually do the modelling properly reveal interesting, but, as you say, unorthodox, results … evidence-based planning, who knew! The real kicker comes when removing roads improves traffic flow. Not really applicable in bucolic west Wales, but (since this thread seems to have drifted so far anyway) a little bit further east, the £1.3b which is being spent on the M4 relief road, while electrification to Swansea (at a cost which might optimistically be achieved of £150m, original estimate £433m) is on hold, indicates a certain degree of bias. I wonder what other transit improvements in the area of the M4 relief road could be achieved for the >£1b cost.

https://grist.org/infrastructure/2011-04-04-seoul-korea-tears-down-an-urban-highway-life-goes-on/ — long article, relevant quotes below.

“Hwang developed a traffic model to see what would happen if they took out what was considered a vital traffic artery carrying 168,000 cars per day. In the model, he included adjustments to other streets and increased transit to see if Seoul could survive without the freeway.

“The results of the model surprised him: not only could it work, but it would actually improve travel times in downtown Seoul.

“But the model was the easy part. Getting public and political buy-in was going to be harder — not to mention that people kept telling him this was “suicide” as a transportation planner and that if the project were built it would create “gridlock!” and “traffic chaos!””

In the end, it worked.

How does a thread on Carmarthen-Aberystwyth rail line re-opening start to involve Seoul??? Replacing roads with Transit is just not going to happen in this country, and if you look at the current antics of the rail industry you will know exactly why......

 

[Rhydgaled]

Just a thought - around £300,000 on "real" services would buy a decent enhancement to say the Cambrian Coast train service (subsidised train miles for maybe high peak Summer services Mach - Barmouth say) - around a season's worth , rather than a report from consultants which will just ask for "more work"

Or to look at it another way if you had £300,000 to spend on a new, faster (avoiding the Pencader detour), bus services between Aberystwyth and Carmarthen for a year how many trips per day would you be able to afford? Not quite comparable I know because a bus service requires an ongoing subsidy rather than just a one-off payment, but what do these studies actually tell anyone that we didn't know already?

As much as I actually like the idea of an Aberystwyth-Carmarthen-Cardiff service, I also appreicate that the former route was quite twisty and straightening it out to provide journey times that significantly beat driving would be horrendously expensive (requiring at least two new long tunnels, which I expect would make the scheme 'unaffordable'). I hope the £300,000 consultants will rubish the idea of reopening the line as it was. In my view if you can't beat the car on journey time you might as well use buses; cheaper and probably greener given the limited amount of modal shift a train would acheive without long tunnels to speed it up. At least try providing a very high-quality bus service (the current T1 is over 50% slower than driving and uses fairly standard buses with no legroom) and see if you can acheive the desired benifits that way before throwing any more money at studies to build a new railway (and if you are going to go ahead, do we need more studies or can we just skip to design and then progress to construction?).

I wonder what other transit improvements in the area of the M4 relief road could be achieved for the >£1b cost.

Not sure how many of these you would get for £1bn, but some ideas:

• Upgrade of relief lines between Cardiff and Severn Tunnel Junction to match the linespeed on the mains; and possibly a new flyover or two to allow grade-seperated use of junctions to/from mains and releifs
  
• Caerleon station with new hourly Cardiff-Hereford stopping service to serve it
  
• Ebbw Vale branch frequency enhancement (2tph to Ebbw Vale and 2tph to Abertillery, with each alternating between Cardiff and Newport)
• Electrification to Ebbw Vale and Abertillery
• Frequency enhancement Cardiff-Gloucester to 3tph (1tph fast to Nottingham as now plus two stoppers each hour instead of the current 'gappy' stoppers)
• Move from 2tph to 3tph between Cardiff and Bristol, with one starting back from Swansea
• 2tph passenger service on the freight only line from Newport to Machen, with Gaer Junction station for both this route and the Ebbw Vale branch, and extend this line via Bedwas to link up with the Rhymney branch and thence (on an hourly basis) onto another freight line to Trelewis/Treharris/Bedlinog
• 4-tracking the GWML from south of Fairwater (prefrably from Cardiff Central but space?) to west of Pencoed (ideally into Bridgend, but again space?), possibly by putting the extra tracks on a brand new alignment west of Peterston-Super-Ely to both shorten the route for fast trains and avoid tight spots where 4 tracks wouldn't fit without major demolitions
  • this to allow 7tph between Cardiff and Bridgend as follows:
    • 1tph Swansea-Paddington (fast)
      
    • 1tph Swansea-Manchester (fast)
    • 1tph Swansea-Bristol (semi-fast (as fast but add Pyle stop))
    • 1tph Swansea-Cardiff* (stopping)
    • 1tph Carmarthen-Cardiff (really fast; non-stop through Bridgend)
      
    • 2tph Maesteg-Cardiff* (stopping)
  • if you can get the above with an extended four-track section that includes the new Miskin station, allowing fasts to overtake the stoppers while they call at Miskin, rather than full 4-tracking then great
  • although west of the new second of M4, my logic is that by improving services further west you can get traffic off an even larger section of the M4

 

[D1009]

Or to look at it another way if you had £300,000 to spend on a new, faster (avoiding the Pencader detour), bus services between Aberystwyth and Carmarthen for a year how many trips per day would you be able to afford? Not quite comparable I know because a bus service requires an ongoing subsidy rather than just a one-off payment, but what do these studies actually tell anyone that we didn't know already?

As much as I actually like the idea of an Aberystwyth-Carmarthen-Cardiff service, I also appreicate that the former route was quite twisty and straightening it out to provide journey times that significantly beat driving would be horrendously expensive (requiring at least two new long tunnels, which I expect would make the scheme 'unaffordable'). I hope the £300,000 consultants will rubish the idea of reopening the line as it was. In my view if you can't beat the car on journey time you might as well use buses; cheaper and probably greener given the limited amount of modal shift a train would acheive without long tunnels to speed it up. At least try providing a very high-quality bus service (the current T1 is over 50% slower than driving and uses fairly standard buses with no legroom) and see if you can acheive the desired benifits that way before throwing any more money at studies to build a new railway (and if you are going to go ahead, do we need more studies or can we just skip to design and then progress to construction?).

Wouldn't a good way to improve bus journey times be to invest in the road network to reduce the effect of traffic congestion? It seems to me that people posting on threads involving Welsh public transport are somewhat blinkered in their view that all transport investment must be directed at the railway at the expense of road, which to me seems a somewhat bizarre approach. Many Welsh businesses depend on an efficient road network; and to them the rail network will be an irrelevance however much money is invested in it.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

Wouldn't a good way to improve bus journey times be to invest in the road network to reduce the effect of traffic congestion? It seems to me that people posting on threads involving Welsh public transport are somewhat blinkered in their view that all transport investment must be directed at the railway at the expense of road, which to me seems a somewhat bizarre approach. Many Welsh businesses depend on an efficient road network; and to them the rail network will be an irrelevance however much money is invested in it.

the problem with investing in roads to speed up journey times in the area is topography... the route between Aberystwyth- Lampeter- Carmarthen is literally over the mountains... there are stretches where the road has been "straightened" but you wouldn't know it unless you knew what visual clues to look for...

as to the debate over whether to re-open the railway line.. well that has been rumbling on since I moved into the area 9 years ago... tbh it just isn't going to happen... there isn't the potential traffic... and let's face it, if there's no business case to open such lines as Luton-Dunstable {short branch, urban} or Cambridge- St Ives {interurban, paralleling congested dual carriageway trunk road} and both of these have had busways put in place... what hope is there for a line linking 3 relatively small market towns in deepest darkest Wales where the sheep outnumber humans by about 3 to 1?

 

[Rhydgaled]

Wouldn't a good way to improve bus journey times be to invest in the road network to reduce the effect of traffic congestion?

No; at least not if the road investment is the sort that is normally proposed (bypasses and dual carriageways / overtaking lanes). Such projects will normally reduce journey times for motorists far more than for bus services; buses cannot make use of bypasses without removing the bypassed places from the route. IF (and I cannot emphasise that if enough) you could build new road capacity for buses only and guarantee that private vehicles will never be permitted to use it then you could be on to something. Otherwise, road investment will just make the time differential between bus and car journeys worse.

When talking about behavioural change; 'carrots and sticks' are considered. Most road investment is a 'carrot' for motorists regardless of any small benifits the bus service gets.

I've never done the full journey on the T1 (I may have done the X40 once, but can't remember if that was all the way or only halfway (to Lampeter from one end)) but from my years of regular use of other bus routes in south-west Wales I surmise that congestion is only present at peak times around Aberystwyth, Carmarthen and maybe Lampeter. There is certainly a long queue into Aberystwyth from the south on school/college mornings; turning the former rail route from Llanfairian (hope I spelt that right...) into Aberystwyth into a one-way (peak-direction only) bus-only road (with cycle pavement) would help the buses avoid most of that but would be a lot of outlay for 2-3 buses per morning and perhaps a similar number using the route in the other direction in the evening.

It seems to me that people posting on threads involving Welsh public transport are somewhat blinkered in their view that all transport investment must be directed at the railway at the expense of road

I'm happy for transport money to be spent or rail or on bus; but not on road schemes that are 'carrots' for motorists.

as to the debate over whether to re-open the railway line.. well that has been rumbling on since I moved into the area 9 years ago... tbh it just isn't going to happen... there isn't the potential traffic... and let's face it, if there's no business case to open such lines as Luton-Dunstable {short branch, urban} or Cambridge- St Ives {interurban, paralleling congested dual carriageway trunk road} and both of these have had busways put in place... what hope is there for a line linking 3 relatively small market towns in deepest darkest Wales where the sheep outnumber humans by about 3 to 1?

Well, the borders railway in Scotland went ahead. Yes it has some things going for it in terms of demand that Carmarthen-Aberystwyth doesn't, but I do think an hourly Aberystwyth-Carmarthen service (provided it ran through to Cardiff at least every two hours and Swansea whenever it doesn't go to Cardiff) could get reasonable loadings similar to the Cambrian main line out of Aberystwyth today. However, I fear that it would be done on the cheap (on the original route), making it too slow to attract much modal shift from private cars, meaning those 'reasonable loadings' would come mostly at the expense of loadings on the T1 service. It would thus actually increase emmisions and not be worth the considerable costs of building and operating it.

 

[Llanigraham]

Well, the borders railway in Scotland went ahead. Yes it has some things going for it in terms of demand that Carmarthen-Aberystwyth doesn't, but I do think an hourly Aberystwyth-Carmarthen service (provided it ran through to Cardiff at least every two hours and Swansea whenever it doesn't go to Cardiff) could get reasonable loadings similar to the Cambrian main line out of Aberystwyth today. However, I fear that it would be done on the cheap (on the original route), making it too slow to attract much modal shift from private cars, meaning those 'reasonable loadings' would come mostly at the expense of loadings on the T1 service. It would thus actually increase emmisions and not be worth the considerable costs of building and operating it.

I think it was Gareth that showed that very few passengers from Aberystwyth headed towards South Wales, and that most were buying tickets towards Birmingham, the North or London. Therefore I very much doubt your supposition.

 

[Rhydgaled]

I think it was Gareth that showed that very few passengers from Aberystwyth headed towards South Wales, and that most were buying tickets towards Birmingham, the North or London. Therefore I very much doubt your supposition.

Very few passengers from Aberystwyth? As in passengers on the current rail service from Aberystwyth? Of course there wouldn't be many headed for south Wales on that, it is far too much of a long way round. The number of passengers using the current Aberystwyth services to head for Carmarthen, Swansea, Cardiff etc. cannot be used as an indicator of the demand (or lack of it) for travel between Aberystwyth and those places.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Perhaps as a result of this thread being an extremely long discussion forum over a number of years without any hard and fast movement, this has now inspired a forum member to open a thread of discussion on reopening the Gobowen to Oswestry branch line, with aspirational routes onwards

 

[Envoy]

It really is too hard to figure out how many people would use a re-built (or new alignment) line between Carmarthen and Aberystwyth. It is not just about people travelling between these two places but also about people travelling up and down the western side of Wales - Tenby to Porthmadog for example.

Swansea to Bangor currently takes 5 hours 20 minutes (at best) via The Marches. Swansea to Carmarthen takes 45 minutes (at best). Aberystwyth to Dovey Junction takes 25 minutes. Dovey Junction to Criccieth takes 2 hours. So, based on the lines that are open now, we have 3 hours and 10 minutes. (I have chosen Criccieth as that is the nearest we can get to any location where a rail link could link with Caernarfon & Bangor). So, the question is, if the two missing links on the western side of Wales were re-built, how long would a total journey take say between Bangor and Swansea and how would that compare with the present 5 hours 20 minutes via The Marches?

Of course, it is not just about linking Swansea with Caernarfon & Bangor but also about linking the many smaller places along the western side of Wales. We should also assume that people from Welshpool & Newtown, for example, might use such a rail link to get to Pembrokeshire and vice versa. As I said, it really is impossible to try and figure out how many people would use such a link and it not just about Aberystwyth - although that would be the main beneficiary.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Of course, rail strikes are never a feature of real life when carrying out armchair debates of aspirational rail reopenings when private car use can totally ignore the rail union's exhortations to withdraw labour.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Of course, rail strikes are never a feature of real life when carrying out armchair debates of aspirational rail reopenings when private car use can totally ignore the rail union's exhortations to withdraw labour.

Neither are road works, accidents that block carriageways for long periods, vehicle breakdowns or many other things that can reduce a carefully planned journey to an utterly miserable experience.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Swansea to Bangor currently takes 5 hours 20 minutes (at best) via The Marches. Swansea to Carmarthen takes 45 minutes (at best). Aberystwyth to Dovey Junction takes 25 minutes. Dovey Junction to Criccieth takes 2 hours. So, based on the lines that are open now, we have 3 hours and 10 minutes. (I have chosen Criccieth as that is the nearest we can get to any location where a rail link could link with Caernarfon & Bangor). So, the question is, if the two missing links on the western side of Wales were re-built, how long would a total journey take say between Bangor and Swansea and how would that compare with the present 5 hours 20 minutes via The Marches?

You need to add 10 minutes interchange time at Aberystwyth and Dovey Junction to your 3hrs 10mins. I don't think it would be worth running a through service between south Wales and Bangor via Aberystwyth unless you turned Dovey Junction into a railway triangle by building a new chord to avoid a reversal there (you would still have a reversal at Aberystwyth, but that is relatively straightforward compared to a reversal at Dovey Junc. given the current arrangements at the latter).

As for the travel time on the missing bits, it rather depends on the route any new lines would take. If you just put back what was there, such as Afon Wen to Bangor, it would take a fair bit longer than if you did something like this. Based (I think) on the shortened route on that map, I once had a stab at guestimating the running time for Carmarthen - Aberystwyth as follows:

• Carmarthen - Llanpumsaint (with stop at Bronwydd Arms) - 55 and 75mph; 10 mins
• Llanpumsaint - Lampeter (with stops at Pencader and Llanybydder) - 60mph; 24 mins
• Lampeter - Pontrhydfendigaid Road (with stop at Tregaron) - 90mph; 19.75 mins
• Pontrhydfendigaid Road - Llanfarian (with stop at Llanilar) - 60mph; 13.75 mins
• Llanfarian - Aberystwyth (no intermediate stops on this section) - 50mph; 6.5mins

Total running time: 1hr 14mins, but I was probably optimistic (I probably assumed instant acceleration to linespeed and braking, then just added 2 minutes for each station call). Still; maybe if you dropped a few of those stations you could do it in that time.

That, with the two changes, would get you to Porthmadog/Criccieth in 4hrs 45mins. I think.

 

[Clayton]

Of course, rail strikes are never a feature of real life when carrying out armchair debates of aspirational rail reopenings when private car use can totally ignore the rail union's exhortations to withdraw labour.

Rail strikes are not a particularly significant element in travel, I can’t remember when I was last affected by one. Road delays and issues tend to be far more prevalent

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Rail strikes are not a particularly significant element in travel, I can’t remember when I was last affected by one. Road delays and issues tend to be far more prevalent

Obviously one fortunate to live away from the Arriva Rail North franchise.

 

[Envoy]

You need to add 10 minutes interchange time at Aberystwyth and Dovey Junction to your 3hrs 10mins. I don't think it would be worth running a through service between south Wales and Bangor via Aberystwyth unless you turned Dovey Junction into a railway triangle by building a new chord to avoid a reversal there (you would still have a reversal at Aberystwyth, but that is relatively straightforward compared to a reversal at Dovey Junc. given the current arrangements at the latter).

As for the travel time on the missing bits, it rather depends on the route any new lines would take. If you just put back what was there, such as Afon Wen to Bangor, it would take a fair bit longer than if you did something like this. Based (I think) on the shortened route on that map, I once had a stab at guestimating the running time for Carmarthen - Aberystwyth as follows:

• Carmarthen - Llanpumsaint (with stop at Bronwydd Arms) - 55 and 75mph; 10 mins
• Llanpumsaint - Lampeter (with stops at Pencader and Llanybydder) - 60mph; 24 mins
• Lampeter - Pontrhydfendigaid Road (with stop at Tregaron) - 90mph; 19.75 mins
• Pontrhydfendigaid Road - Llanfarian (with stop at Llanilar) - 60mph; 13.75 mins
• Llanfarian - Aberystwyth (no intermediate stops on this section) - 50mph; 6.5mins

Total running time: 1hr 14mins, but I was probably optimistic (I probably assumed instant acceleration to linespeed and braking, then just added 2 minutes for each station call). Still; maybe if you dropped a few of those stations you could do it in that time.

That, with the two changes, would get you to Porthmadog/Criccieth in 4hrs 45mins. I think.

That’s interesting. I think for a Carmarthen to Aberystwyth link to work that the smaller places should not be included. I would have Carmarthen > Pencader (with bus links to Llandysul & New Quay plus another to Newcastle Emlyn & Cardigan); > Llanybydder > Lampeter (with bus link to Aberaeron); > Tregaron > Aberystwyth.

Perhaps improvements could be made to timings on the Cambrian Coast by cutting out the smaller halts and putting in new track? (It looks like the present track has been around since the days of steam).

I would like to add that last week, I drove from Aberystwyth to Cardiff via Llangurig & Builth in 2 hours 40 minutes. (This was at a quiet time in the early evening). I find it incredible that in this day and age that traffic crossing Wales must still drive through Rhayader, Newbridge-on-Wye and Builth Wells. Then we have all those roundabouts to swing around at Merthyr. I think that the Welsh Government should direct money into by-passes of those towns which would not only help long distance travellers but also improve the environment for the residents.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Let me pose a question to ponder. Noting the sentiments expressed in the very first posting on this thread on 2nd December 2014, would all those forum members actually resident in Wales be happy with the way the political parties in Wales have dealt with the matter of a proposed reopening on the Carmarthen to Aberystwyth line in the time period that has elapsed from then to July 2018.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Of course, rail strikes are never a feature of real life when carrying out armchair debates of aspirational rail reopenings when private car use can totally ignore the rail union's exhortations to withdraw labour.

I cant remember that last one in Wales is this some English thing down to your political system/problems Paul? Its clearly not a generic problem with rail and unions.

 

[Gareth Marston]

That’s interesting. I think for a Carmarthen to Aberystwyth link to work that the smaller places should not be included. I would have Carmarthen > Pencader (with bus links to Llandysul & New Quay plus another to Newcastle Emlyn & Cardigan); > Llanybydder > Lampeter (with bus link to Aberaeron); > Tregaron > Aberystwyth.

Perhaps improvements could be made to timings on the Cambrian Coast by cutting out the smaller halts and putting in new track? (It looks like the present track has been around since the days of steam).

I would like to add that last week, I drove from Aberystwyth to Cardiff via Llangurig & Builth in 2 hours 40 minutes. (This was at a quiet time in the early evening). I find it incredible that in this day and age that traffic crossing Wales must still drive through Rhayader, Newbridge-on-Wye and Builth Wells. Then we have all those roundabouts to swing around at Merthyr. I think that the Welsh Government should direct money into by-passes of those towns which would not only help long distance travellers but also improve the environment for the residents.

a call to spend half a billion on roads in rural Wales so Mr Toad can shave a minute or two off the time it takes to get to the traffic jam outside of Cardiff...........

 

[Gareth Marston]

Rail strikes are not a particularly significant element in travel, I can’t remember when I was last affected by one. Road delays and issues tend to be far more prevalent

Look at Wlaesonline and Daily Post they must run 3 or 4 stories a week about crashes and miles long tailbacks on the A55 & M4.....

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There all frightened that you might force them to take public transport whereas its OK to force people to drive by not having adequate public transport.

The last posting that I made was more connected to the sentiments expressed in your posting above.

 

[krus_aragon]

Let me pose a question to ponder. Noting the sentiments expressed in the very first posting on this thread on 2nd December 2014, would all those forum members actually resident in Wales be happy with the way the political parties in Wales have dealt with the matter of a proposed reopening on the Carmarthen to Aberystwyth line in the time period that has elapsed from then to July 2018.

I'm based a little north of Aberystwyth, but here's my view.

Plaid, Labour and the Liberals have all engaged with this reopening idea as matter of local interest, in an attempt to curry favour with the local electorate. Only the party in power (Labour) have had to do anything constructive, and spending a little bit of money on a study lets them look "on-side" and interested until the next elections (and defend against their local political competition). The first posting raised the possibility of the Liberals making this a condition of forming a coalition. Aside from the fact that they didn't have the numbers to make such a demand, I think it's worth comparing with the Amlwch branch. The Welsh Government commissioned a study from Network Rail on reopening this branch in 2009 (when Ieuan Wyn Jones, AM for Anglesey, was Deputy FM in a Labour-Plaid coalition). The study was made, the plan got to GRIP stage 3 or thereabouts, and then was quietly forgotten about.

As for the other parties, I can't recall hearing anything from the Conservatives or UKIP on the matter (but they are further away from me on the political spectrum, so I may not have been listening closely enough). The Green party of course hold genuine support for reopening this railway line, as they will for many others. But the other five are probably pandering to the voters while hoping not to get caught in a situation where they are expected to deliver on their promises.

 

[krus_aragon]

Look at Wlaesonline and Daily Post they must run 3 or 4 stories a week about crashes and miles long tailbacks on the A55 & M4.....

And yet I've spent three years commuting daily along the A55 (around the Bangor - St Asaph stretch) and am struggling to remember more than three or four occasions where I've been caught up in such a tailback.

It's an easy way to get clicks: as soon as something's reported on, say, the Traffic Wales website, they can create an article titled "accident/tailbacks on A55" (without stating where on the A55) and you'll get loads of people clicking through to see if it's anywhere that will affect them (and the Daily Post get paid for showing more adverts on your screen). The amount of actual information to be found on those pages is very low, and often shows up after the incident clears up.

 

[Gareth Marston]

And yet I've spent three years commuting daily along the A55 (around the Bangor - St Asaph stretch) and am struggling to remember more than three or four occasions where I've been caught up in such a tailback.

It's an easy way to get clicks: as soon as something's reported on, say, the Traffic Wales website, they can create an article titled "accident/tailbacks on A55" (without stating where on the A55) and you'll get loads of people clicking through to see if it's anywhere that will affect them (and the Daily Post get paid for showing more adverts on your screen). The amount of actual information to be found on those pages is very low, and often shows up after the incident clears up.

You then get Politicians running around demanding Money is spent to "Improve " the A55 becuase of "the problems".

 

[krus_aragon]

You then get Politicians running around demanding Money is spent to "Improve " the A55 becuase of "the problems".

Most definitely.

 

[Llanigraham]

A44 west of Aber was closed twice yesterday, once in the morning for 3 hours around Cross Gates, and then for 6 hours between Capel Bangor and Llangurig in the late afternnon. The afternoon one resulted in congestion between Aber and Machynlleth, and then along the A470 towards Caersws.

 

[Envoy]

a call to spend half a billion on roads in rural Wales so Mr Toad can shave a minute or two off the time it takes to get to the traffic jam outside of Cardiff...........

It’s about giving people their towns back - rather than have lorries as well as cars going through their centres. I would think that the extensive pedestrianised centre of Cardiff is a lot more pleasant than the much smaller town of Builth Wells in which to do shopping. Rhayader even has a narrow point where the A470 comes in from the south to the crossroads in the middle.
I am all for rail transport but like it or not, road transport will be an important method of getting from A to B. It is also important to remove the fumes and noise from residential areas. Incredibly, the Local Development Plan for Cardiff, approved by a Welsh Government Inspector, sees high density residential building on the A4119 going NW from Cardiff towards Llantrisant. Those who know Cardiff will be aware that in the 1970’s they had more sense and built the Danescourt estate off the A4119 - not on it!

What I noticed when travelling on the A44 out of Aberystwyth to Llangurig was the high amount of large lorries traversing this mountainous route. It really is a great pity that some economic way cannot be found of shifting such freight by rail - possibly at night?

 

[Llanigraham]

It’s about giving people their towns back - rather than have lorries as well as cars going through their centres. I would think that the extensive pedestrianised centre of Cardiff is a lot more pleasant than the much smaller town of Builth Wells in which to do shopping. Rhayader even has a narrow point where the A470 comes in from the south to the crossroads in the middle.
I am all for rail transport but like it or not, road transport will be an important method of getting from A to B. It is also important to remove the fumes and noise from residential areas. Incredibly, the Local Development Plan for Cardiff, approved by a Welsh Government Inspector, sees high density residential building on the A4119 going NW from Cardiff towards Llantrisant. Those who know Cardiff will be aware that in the 1970’s they had more sense and built the Danescourt estate off the A4119 - not on it!

What I noticed when travelling on the A44 out of Aberystwyth to Llangurig was the high amount of large lorries traversing this mountainous route. It really is a great pity that some economic way cannot be found of shifting such freight by rail - possibly at night?

The problem is that a very large percentage of that traffic is not containerised, so would need unloading form the lorry, packing into frieght wagons and then unloading and packing into another set of lorries at (say) Aberystwyth. This takes time, costs in equipment and staff, slows down deliveries, can lead to potential damage to stock, especially cooled/frozen foodstuffs, and increases pilferage.
Plus, of course, there are only 2 "tractors" (Cl 97's) locally to work the Cambrian.

The 2 delays on the A44 yesterday were caused by motorcycle accidents, which are unfortunately very common on that road at this time of year.

There have been plans for a by-pass for Rhayader for many years, but it appears no-one can come up with a practical or "cheap" way around the town, and to be honest Builth doesn't actually cause much of a problem as most of the heavy stuff doesn't actually need to go though the town. The biggest hold-ups there are when the Royal Welsh is on. Newbridge-on-Wye has never caused any delays since the road was improved south of the town and the narrow river bridge by-passed.

 

[Gareth Marston]

The problem is that a very large percentage of that traffic is not containerised, so would need unloading form the lorry, packing into frieght wagons and then unloading and packing into another set of lorries at (say) Aberystwyth. This takes time, costs in equipment and staff, slows down deliveries, can lead to potential damage to stock, especially cooled/frozen foodstuffs, and increases pilferage.
Plus, of course, there are only 2 "tractors" (Cl 97's) locally to work the Cambrian.

The 2 delays on the A44 yesterday were caused by motorcycle accidents, which are unfortunately very common on that road at this time of year.

There have been plans for a by-pass for Rhayader for many years, but it appears no-one can come up with a practical or "cheap" way around the town, and to be honest Builth doesn't actually cause much of a problem as most of the heavy stuff doesn't actually need to go though the town. The biggest hold-ups there are when the Royal Welsh is on. Newbridge-on-Wye has never caused any delays since the road was improved south of the town and the narrow river bridge by-passed.

The Welsh Government may have caught a heavy dose of reality about building road projects through difficult terrain given the problems they had and the cost increases on the A465 dualling or maybe not. If it was a simple question of plonking a road along the former railway alignments it would have already been done.

I was down the A487 Coast road south of Aberystwyth at the weekend lets face it there is nothing practical that can be done given the topography. Investing in road improvements in rural Wales is a very expensive way of not achieving much.