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Carmarthen to Aberystwyth Reopening?

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Envoy

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It would be brilliant to get the Swansea District Line up and running with regular services - and a Parkway station near Morriston with bus links to the hospital and up the valley to Dan-Y-Ogof Caves. Such buses could start from Swansea bus station.

Another possibility could be for Heart of Wales trains to use this line and therefore provide faster links to/from SE Wales and thus shorten the journey for those doing The Circuit of Wales (south).
 
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Gareth Marston

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I'll tenously link it with the Carmartehn to Aberystwyth reopening discussion. Providing a service along the SDL will benefit far people than spending a lot more money on reinstating the railway through the rural swathes of Ceredigion and Carmarthenshire.

Indeed so,Trawslink use a methodology as a geographer I don't recognise . They claim the lines catchment is 260K. Given that Ceredigions entire population is 70K they must be including the populations of adjoining counties. Usin this methodology I've concluded that reopening Gobowen to Buttington Junction and Moat Lane Junction to Nerthyr Tydfil will have a far better business case!
 
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Greenback

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I cna't see where they would get the figure of 260k from unless they include areas that are alreadys erved by rail.
 

Rhydgaled

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Agreed. Indeed for the cash needed to reinstate two miles of the line you could instead put it in the bank, and use the interest you'd get to pay for an hourly luxury coach service Aber - Lampeter - Camarthen with fares free.
Just don't send it via Pencader if you're going via Lampeter, the journey time needs to be reasonbly quick. Rather than free fares, make it available on railway journey planners (like the Minehead bus) for just £1 on top of your rail fare for the whole trip or 50p if you're only going to Lampeter from Aberystwyth or Carmarthen. And make sure the operator takes the word 'luxury' seriously and provides a vehicle with decent legroom etc. not a fairly standard bus with very little legroom as most of the TrawsCymru vehicles are.

A regular service on the SDL sounds great especially if paths can be found for it between Bridgend & Cardiff. Certainly a station at Llandarcy and one at Morriston would be ideal especially as park & ride hubs. railfuture did do a report on the sdl a few years ago.
I think having more than one station on the SDL would defeat the object of speeding up Carmarthen-Cardiff journeys. The only way you could have more stops is if you put in a new Swansea Docks station (with a tram from there to High Street station and Quadrant bus station) with a circular service between Swansea Docks and High Street stations via the SDL. That would serve all SDL stops, the Cardiff-Carmarthen only Morriston Parkway.

has to be done with recast of services west of High Street towards Carmarthen and beyond (to maintain or improve connections)

Not sure how much "white space" is available on the SWML beyond the splendidly named Briton Ferry Up Flying Loop junction , but we are talking or hourly peak . maybe 2 hourly off peak .....
My thinking has long been that the recast would be as follows:
  1. Swansea - Carmarthen all-stops hourly, extending to Pembroke Dock every 2hrs (with talk of a St. Clears station, maybe revise this to hourly as far as Whitland)
  2. Swansea - Clarbeston Road hourly calling at Gowerton, Llanelli, Pembrey & Burry Port, Carmarthen, Whitland and Clunderwen
  3. Cardiff - Camarthen hourly calling at Port Talbot Parkway, Morriston Swansea Valley Parkway and Llanelli only
In general, services 2 and 3 would continue every 2 hours to Milford Haven (the Cardiff service calling at Whitland then non-stop to Haverfordwest), providing approximately hourly service. In the other hours, service 2 would run to Fishguard BUT:
  • both ferry services at Fishguard should be met, in both directions, with a fast service from Cardiff
  • the morning services from Fishguard should remain at 10-to the even hours and the evening services at 10-to the odd hours
These two will require some shuffling of services 2 and 3 between Milford and Fishguard, with a 3hr gap in the Fishguard timetable at some point. The express being hourly means Carmarthen and Haverfordwest retain their present level of through trains to and from Cardiff. In summer, depending on availability of rolling stock, the express Cardiff service could run to Pembroke Dock as the new Pembroke Coast Express when GWR withdraws.

I'll tenously link it with the Carmartehn to Aberystwyth reopening discussion. Providing a service along the SDL will benefit far people than spending a lot more money on reinstating the railway through the rural swathes of Ceredigion and Carmarthenshire.
It isn't that much of a departure from the topic since the TrawsLinkCymru campaign did at one point include their Aberystwyth services running through to Cardiff over the SDL. And another benifit of my proposed hourly SDL service to Carmarthen is that there would be a service terminating there in some hours which could go to Aberystwyth if we ever get that far down the To-Do list (there's just alot of other new lines I'd rather the money was spent on first before getting to Carmarthen-Aberystwyth, one possibly being a new fast link between Cardiff and Bridgend so that fasts don't get stuck behind the metro stoppers to Maesteg).

Indeed so,Trawslink use a methodology as a geographer I don't recognise . They claim the lines catchment is 260K. Given that Ceredigions entire population is 70K they must be including the populations of adjoining counties. Usin this methodology I've concluded that reopening Gobowen to Buttington Junction and Moat Lane Junction to Nerthyr Tydfil will have a far better business case!
Assuming Buttington Junction is Welshpool I think that project would be more transformational on a Welsh national connectivity level than Aberystwyth-Carmarthen (coupled with a Bangor-Porthmadog link) although the original route of Moat Lane to Merthyr was far too twisty and indirect to make sense today. It'd be a Y-shaped network, like HS2.
 

70014IronDuke

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....

I think having more than one station on the SDL would defeat the object of speeding up Carmarthen-Cardiff journeys. The only way you could have more stops is if you put in a new Swansea Docks station ........

For me, the idea to open up the Swansea District Line for faster access Cardiff-Carmarthen, and possible link up with the Central Wales line, is probably the most visionary, yet realistically achievable and practical rail development ever proposed in this group. (the irony is it should be spawned by the thread on ....ok, let's not go there).

Could not the mods take out these posts and create a new thread, with a title something like "Swansea District Line to facilitate faster Cardiff-West Wales links"

I believe it really deserves a thread of its own to help focus minds and future reference.
 

PHILIPE

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I think the Heart of Wales Line trains should still serve Swansea and not avoid it by going via the District Line. Too much passenger potential to miss.
 

70014IronDuke

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I think the Heart of Wales Line trains should still serve Swansea and not avoid it by going via the District Line. Too much passenger potential to miss.

Of course - I was not suggesting otherwise. Additional development with and SDL development does not rule that out. It is not either .... or

It is both development to Swansea, and developments tailored to SDL.

but it would be so much better to have a separate thread on all this ......
 

Rhydgaled

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Could not the mods take out these posts and create a new thread, with a title something like "Swansea District Line to facilitate faster Cardiff-West Wales links"

I believe it really deserves a thread of its own to help focus minds and future reference.
There already is one here. Needs to be un-closed by a mod. if discussion is to continue there though.
 

Envoy

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I think the Heart of Wales Line trains should still serve Swansea and not avoid it by going via the District Line. Too much passenger potential to miss.

A lot of passenger potential is being missed by going via Llanelli & Swansea as so many more people might use a service that went from the HoW to Port Talbot and Cardiff.

Anybody from the Llanelli area who really wanted to use the HoW could easily drive to Pontarddulais - or use a bus link. A fast bus link using the A48 could also connect Pontarddulais with Cross Hands and neighbouring villages. Anybody wishing to get to/from the HoW trains using the SDL to Swansea, could easily do so by taking the short bus journey from a new station at Morriston - which should also have a P&R facility.

It would be interesting if someone could sound out the views of residents of the Ammanford, Llandeilo and Llandovery areas about such a proposal.
 

ChiefPlanner

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For me, the idea to open up the Swansea District Line for faster access Cardiff-Carmarthen, and possible link up with the Central Wales line, is probably the most visionary, yet realistically achievable and practical rail development ever proposed in this group. (the irony is it should be spawned by the thread on ....ok, let's not go there).

Could not the mods take out these posts and create a new thread, with a title something like "Swansea District Line to facilitate faster Cardiff-West Wales links"

I believe it really deserves a thread of its own to help focus minds and future reference.

"Flattered" ....
 

och aye

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Forgive me for dragging this thread back up. However this is "news related"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41679247

Ms Wood told conference that, if Plaid was in government, it would issue a "rail bond" to finance electrification of the main railway line from London to Swansea "and beyond".

Electrification west of Cardiff has been cancelled by the UK government. Ms Wood promised a "rail revolution", saying a proposed Carmarthen to Aberystwyth route would form a "linchpin in the creation of an all-Wales rail line".
 

6Gman

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Forgive me for dragging this thread back up. However this is "news related"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-41679247

1. A "Rail Bond" has one problem - to get anyone to invest a return has to be offered. So - in effect - little different to borrowing the money.
2. The running costs still need to be met.
3. From most (perhaps all) of North Wales to most (perhaps all) of South Wales travel via Shrewsbury would still be quicker.
 

daodao

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A reminder that a political party that was in coalition government in Wales recently and could be again back the reopen.

It's political posturing to cement support in their heartlands. Two of the 4 Westminster seats held by PC only have small majorities - Ceredigion and Arfon.

PC would like a railway line connecting the communities in Y Fro Gymraeg from Bangor to Caerfyrddin. The gaps are Caerfyrddin to Aberystwyth and Afon Wen to Bangor (although the latter gap is partly filled for tourists by the WHR and FfR).
 

Gareth Marston

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Sorry folks lets drag this thread back to life...

Ceredigions new Plaid MP Ben Lake has discovered something that past us all by......

“The Secretary of State has earmarked billions towards reversing the Beeching cuts.

“There is no reason why some of this money could not be invested to reopen former lines in Wales, such as the Aberystwyth to Carmarthen line.”

If only.... full wibble can be found at http://www.cambrian-news.co.uk/arti...t be restored’&sectionIs=News&searchyear=2017
 

Spartacus

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You know, that one announcement's going to result in heaven knows how many reopening schemes being proposed, with the percentage of practical ones being well into single figures.
 

Chris 76

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The Secretary of State has not 'earmarked billions towards reversing Beeching cuts', he just said some may be worth reappraising. Meaning lines which will improve commuting into cities and densely populated areas, not the likes of Aberystwyth-Carmarthen.
 

Gareth Marston

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The Secretary of State has not 'earmarked billions towards reversing Beeching cuts', he just said some may be worth reappraising. Meaning lines which will improve commuting into cities and densely populated areas, not the likes of Aberystwyth-Carmarthen.

quite we all know it but the Member of Parliament for Ceredigion clearly has trouble understanding written statements.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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It is true that extra spending in England on transport links usually has some parallel funding released for Wales, even though it is not linked to the Barnett formula.
I imagine that's how the Cardiff City Deal is providing funds for the Metro.
But the path from there to get a specific Welsh scheme agreed is a long and hard one, because of the weak business case.
It might also become a shoot-out between north and south, eg Lampeter or Llangefni?
 

Olaf

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Sorry folks lets drag this thread back to life...

Ceredigions new Plaid MP Ben Lake has discovered something that past us all by......



If only.... full wibble can be found at http://www.cambrian-news.co.uk/article.cfm?id=117967&headline=‘No reason why 1960s rail links can’t be restored’&sectionIs=News&searchyear=2017

No funds have been specifically allocated to re-opening Beeched lines; funding will via existing sources as part of the NIP.

However, intentions have been announced for the uplift of services between Pembroke and Cardiff; it is unrealistic to expect funding of blue-sky schemes when there are so many problems with the existing infrastructure in the region.
 

Gareth Marston

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Well I've got a reason to visit Ceredigion this weekend however given that Newquay would not be on the line if it was reopened it would of no use to me beyond looking at the Infrastructure at Aberystwyth............
 

gazthomas

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Well I've got a reason to visit Ceredigion this weekend however given that Newquay would not be on the line if it was reopened it would of no use to me beyond looking at the Infrastructure at Aberystwyth............
We could build a new line and link it to Gobowen
 

8H

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BCR is not an infallible law of science, it is simply a fashionable modelling system. It may be genuinely useful in some respects, but it should not be simplistically venerated. Contrarily there is good evidence from a data set nearly a hundred years long proving new roads also create more traffic in general and cause more traffic on the roads they were supposed to replace and have little effect on job creation yet they usually do all right with their BCR I assume ! as they get built regardless. Whilst the following statement is about as scientific as a BCR I will nonetheless make it. Roads get a free pass and chocolates and flowers from the orthodox planners. Railways wherever they are planned to go get nowt, if you want them across rural areas you are lucky if all you get is ridicule. We have a great many Mr Toads in modern Britain “Poop Poop” to all of you on here !!
 

ChiefPlanner

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Just a thought - around £300,000 on "real" services would buy a decent enhancement to say the Cambrian Coast train service (subsidised train miles for maybe high peak Summer services Mach - Barmouth say) - around a season's worth , rather than a report from consultants which will just ask for "more work" ........

Subject to train crew of course ....:D
 
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