SWR: Guards/RMT Industrial Action. Next strike dates: 30/31 August, 1/2 September 2019

[infobleep]

I now realise why yesterday people were stood on New Malden station expecting 10 carriages, the 7.35 Guildford to Waterloo via Cobham, is usually 10 carriages.

There was no announcement about it being short formed Therefore I assume it was digrammeed in to be 8 carriages. Unfortunately passengers are not mind readers and don't get to see the diagrams.

If the train leaves at the same time as normal and less services are running, they would expect it to be the same number of cattiages
After all with less services running, you'd expect them to want to provide the same amount or, if possible, more carriages on each service, not less.

Maybe other services were more deserving and they don't have enough to go round, which I doubt.

Still this is the railways. I imagine once a diagram with 8 carriages is set in place, it's difficult for staff to know what it is normally, as there are hundreds of trains. I can't imagine there would be software to aid them in knowing this, as that would be helpful to them. End of cynicism

 

[infobleep]

Correct, Saturday's strike is still on for now though.

I hope the talks produces something useful but I have my doubts, given the Southern dispute.

 

[Goldfish62]

I hope the talks produces something useful but I have my doubts, given the Southern dispute.

The RMT called on SWR to settle based on the GA agreement, so RMT seem to be willing to compromise. Let's hope SWR are.

 

[Carlisle]

The RMT called on SWR to settle based on the GA agreement, so RMT seem to be willing to compromise. Let's hope SWR are.

Unless the RMT are willing to consider a DOO permissible area (possibly only a relatively small percentage of the SWRs network), the GA deal, can’t really just be implemented in an identical fashion in order to solve this dispute or the ones on Merseyrail and northern.

 

[Goldfish62]

Unless the RMT are willing to consider a DOO permissible area (possibly only a relatively small percentage of the SWRs network), the GA deal, can’t really just be implemented in an identical fashion in order to solve this dispute or the ones on Merseyrail and northern.

As I understand it, the GA dispute was not about the existing DOO network, but how guards are to be used on the part of the network without DOO. I'm assuming that's what the RMT meant.

 

[Carlisle]

As I understand it, the GA dispute was not about the existing DOO network, but how guards are to be used on the part of the network without DOO. I'm assuming that's what the RMT meant.

Doesn’t it mostly boil down to what the govt/ DFT actually want, ie do they still want to see some expanded DOO capability or are they now happy to let all the strike affected TOCs sign deals that still cancel evey train without a second safety critical staff member onboard.

 

[Goldfish62]

Doesn’t it mostly boil down to what the govt/ DFT actually want, ie do they still want some expanded DOO capability or are they now happy to let all the strike affected TOCs sign deals that still cancel evey train without a second safety critical staff member onboard.

No idea. I've long given up trying to work out who wants what and why.

 

[387star]

1 August 2018

RMT Press Office:

As ACAS talks get underway RMT sets out catalogue of safety abuses during recent South Western Railway strike days

As talks aimed at resolving the dispute over the axing of safety-critical guards on South Western Railway get underway at ACAS today, rail union RMT has written to the safety regulator, the ORR, setting out a catalogue of fundamental and dangerous safety abuses throughout the recent strike days as a result of the company paying volunteers to act up as guards regardless of the risks to the travelling public.

The union complaints include:
• Unskilled, inexperienced and poorly trained volunteers triggering the start signal to drivers on red signals at Raynes Park, Twickenham, St Margarets and Effingham Junction. A dangerous move creating the potential for a signal to be passed at danger (SPAD).
• Selective door operation not being applied at both Swaythling and Clapham Junction with doors released off the platform creating a serious risk of passengers falling on the tracks.
• Doors released after a driver stopped short at Overton station, again creating a real danger of passengers falling onto the tracks.
• Passengers left to lift a wheelchair onto a train at Strawberry Hill due to the failure of a temporary guard to assist, raising serious risks for the passengers and wheelchair user alike.
RMT General Secretary Mick Cash said:

“We are entering talks today through ACAS in good faith with the objective of reaching a solution that underpins the guard guarantee on South Western Railway in the same way that we have negotiated settlements with other train operating companies.

“The catalogue of failures we have raised with the safety regulator today show just how dangerous it is to run a railway on a wing and a prayer without competent, trained and experienced staff. No one should be playing Russian Roulette with passenger safety on our railways in this cavalier fashion.

“These potentially lethal failures can be avoided in the future if we secure an agreement that puts safety and access first.”

ENDS

 

[3141]

RMT organises strike. SWR organises temporary use of other staff as guards to provide a service to passengers, which is what the railway is for. Not surprisingly. and unfortunately, some of the temporary guards make mistakes. RMT complains about the consequences of its actions. Everyone knows that DOO trains can operate perfectly safely. SWR isn't proposing DOO other than in exceptional circumstances to avoid a complete cancellation. RMT's real concern is keeping control of the railway and having the power to disrupt it, not safety.

 

[Kite159]

Selective door operation not being applied at both Swaythling and Clapham Junction with doors released off the platform creating a serious risk of passengers falling on the tracks.
• Doors released after a driver stopped short

And there was me thinking that the Desiros had automatic selective door opening fitted...

As for the driver stopping short at Overton, I assume the driver forgot they had 9 coaches and stopped at the 6 coach point heading towards Salisbury?

 

[infobleep]

RMT organises strike. SWR organises temporary use of other staff as guards to provide a service to passengers, which is what the railway is for. Not surprisingly. and unfortunately, some of the temporary guards make mistakes. RMT complains about the consequences of its actions. Everyone knows that DOO trains can operate perfectly safely. SWR isn't proposing DOO other than in exceptional circumstances to avoid a complete cancellation. RMT's real concern is keeping control of the railway and having the power to disrupt it, not safety.

Even then the exceptional circumstance don't apply to all their rolling stock.

I wonder what percentage of delays occurring on trains, that in future they want to run as DOO, us and what percentage of this is due to the guard and not the driver?

 

[theironroad]

And there was me thinking that the Desiros had automatic selective door opening fitted...

As for the driver stopping short at Overton, I assume the driver forgot they had 9 coaches and stopped at the 6 coach point heading towards Salisbury?

I guess you know, but for the benefit of others, both those incidents are operated by dmu 158 or 159 stock which isn't asdo fitted and requires guard to perform (or not) sdo.

Doubt we'll hear much about this , but sdo incidents like this are treated very seriously with multiple doors off a platform (likewise the doors off in the stop short incident).

 

[infobleep]

And there was me thinking that the Desiros had automatic selective door opening fitted...

As for the driver stopping short at Overton, I assume the driver forgot they had 9 coaches and stopped at the 6 coach point heading towards Salisbury?

Can you remind me what the Desiro's do have.

 

[infobleep]

I guess you know, but for the benefit of others, both those incidents are operated by dmu 158 or 159 stock which isn't asdo fitted and requires guard to perform (or not) sdo.

Doubt we'll hear much about this , but sdo incidents like this are treated very seriously with multiple doors off a platform (likewise the doors off in the stop short incident).

Surely we'd hear about it if a public investigation and report is needed.

 

[TEW]

And there was me thinking that the Desiros had automatic selective door opening fitted...

As has been discussed many times on this forum before, the ASDO system fitted to Desiros offers no protection against a stop short incident. The number of doors that open are based on the assumption that the driver has stopped at the correct stopping point.

 

[theironroad]

Surely we'd hear about it if a public investigation and report is needed.

It's unlikely to be a raib issue. The RMT might want a full blown orr enquiry, but I imagine that they will be investigated internally (as with normal guards) .

Can't remember if it was Orr or another body, but a letter of action was sent to Abellio Anglia a couple of years requiring improvement of training and standards for 'other' guards, so maybe there will be a general letter sent, which then the Orr would probably publish.

 

[theironroad]

As has been discussed many times on this forum before, the ASDO system fitted to Desiros offers no protection against a stop short incident. The number of doors that open are based on the assumption that the driver has stopped at the correct stopping point.

Obviously correct, but none of the incidents highlighted by the RMT involved desiros, only 158/9 stock.

 

[Kite159]

I guess you know, but for the benefit of others, both those incidents are operated by dmu 158 or 159 stock which isn't asdo fitted and requires guard to perform (or not) sdo.

Doubt we'll hear much about this , but sdo incidents like this are treated very seriously with multiple doors off a platform (likewise the doors off in the stop short incident).

Swaythling threw me considering it is normally only served by 158s or 159s which SDO is more unit deselect.

 

[D1009]

Previously, the Waterloo to Exeter service wasn't as seriously affected by the strikes as it has been by the latest ones. Is that because the stop short incident at Overton involved a Salisbury guard working during the strike?

 

[TEW]

Obviously correct, but none of the incidents highlighted by the RMT involved desiros, only 158/9 stock.

Ah, OK. I wasn't aware of the details.

 

[theironroad]

Previously, the Waterloo to Exeter service wasn't as seriously affected by the strikes as it has been by the latest ones. Is that because the stop short incident at Overton involved a Salisbury guard working during the strike?

Was the Overton incident a regular guard or a non guard undertaking some guard duties?

 

[theironroad]

Ah, OK. I wasn't aware of the details.

Just to clarify , the sdo incidents weren't desiros. I'm not sure what stock was involved in the other incidents of giving ready to start against a red.

 

[D1009]

Was the Overton incident a regular guard or a non guard undertaking some guard duties?

The RMT press release implies the latter, but I treat their press releases with suspicion.

 

[infobleep]

Unless they are still to update the disruption information, timetables aside, it seems that TfL buses run to Shepperton once more. I'm hoping it's just that they haven't updated the info yet.

However you'd think if the info was wrong, they'd take it down.

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/plan-my-journey/rmt-industrial-action/saturday-4-august

Between Teddington and Shepperton – please use TFL buses. Local buses may be available but your SWR ticket will not be valid on these services. Please use Traveline to plan your journey.

 

[Muzer]

Deleted.

 

[pompeyfan]

The Swaythling incident is odd, I was under the impression Romsey Rocket services weren’t running, and even if they were running, they must have been running as a 4 car 158, which is very rare except for football days. Usually it’s just a 2 car pottering around.

 

[theironroad]

The RMT press release implies the latter, but I treat their press releases with suspicion.

So essentially you're saying that the RMT press release is lying.

You stated in post #409 that it was a Salisbury guard working during the strike, implying that it was a regular guard rather than a 'contingency' guard.

So which is it, or don't you know?

 

[Muzer]

The Swaythling incident is odd, I was under the impression Romsey Rocket services weren’t running, and even if they were running, they must have been running as a 4 car 158, which is very rare except for football days. Usually it’s just a 2 car pottering around.

Could have been a peak extra pair of 159s or something? Do those exist?

 

[pompeyfan]

I thought all trains with short platform issues at these two stations had ASDO now...

Diesels have unit deselect, which in effect doesn’t transmit the doors open signal to beyond the panel of release.

 

[theironroad]

Deleted.

Once again, swr class 158/159 do not have asdo.


Edit: since selecting the text to quote it and posting it, it appears the poster has deleted his or her post which originally said that they thought Clapham junction and swaythling short platforms had been resolved by asdo.