GWR Shortage of Traincrew Weekend and During Week

[Tom Quinne]

Sunday’s in the working week at last ?
That’s going to cost a few bob, but it’ll be pensionable at least.

 

[Kite159]

No doubt it will be something like "give us lots of money and we will do it... Or we will go on strike". (After all the RMT love a good strike).

----

Seems the Golden Valley services are badly hit this morning, but so far so good

 

[bnm]

And right on cue....

SUNDAY WORKING, GUARDS – GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY

You missed out the middle paragraphs. They better show the RMTs starting position toward negotiations.

The RMTs announcement in full:

Our Ref: BR2/8/4

9th August 2018

Dear Colleague

SUNDAY WORKING, GUARDS – GREAT WESTERN RAILWAY

I write with regards to the above matter and to inform you that a meeting has been held at Head Office with your GWR Divisional Council Representatives, Lead Officer and National Officers to discuss the union’s negotiating position regarding the issues raised in the following resolution received from our Plymouth No 1 Branch:

“That this Plymouth No 1 Branch recognises that the GWR Guard Sunday enhancement payment is reaching its trial conclusion. Branch reiterates its position that Sunday Working Payments should include all grades that this Union represents and demands that any future talks should be inclusive of all grades.

Branch believes that a 1¾ payment with ‘no strings’ is a practical solution to solve the ongoing Sunday Working issue. Should there be no satisfactory outcome, then we urge the NEC to create a dispute situation between this Union and the GWR.

Branch is aware that the IET sets are operational and that the travelling public have not been happy with the absence of a buffet car/shop facility on board. We request that the NEC re-open talks about the inclusion of a buffet car/shop facility in line with the East Coast IET sets which will create a better service for passengers and a better and safer working environment for our members.”

Following conclusion of this meeting, the union’s National Executive Committee has again considered the matter and I have been instructed to negotiate a Sunday Working Agreement for all grades with Great Western Railway. Therefore, I am in the process of making the necessary arrangements for a meeting to be held and I will, of course, keep you fully advised on any further developments as and when they arise.

Best wishes.

Mick Cash
General Secretary

http://www.rmt.org.uk/news/members-updates/sunday-working-guards--great-western-railway090818/

So it's "Give us time and three quarters - no strings - for all grades not just guards, and retrofit buffets to the Class 80x, or we'll ballot for industrial action."

So remember folks, when GWR make a counter offer, or refuse the demands, and the RMT say they are negotiating in good faith with a TOC that is refusing to listen, this was the RMTs starting position.

 

[embers25]

Cancellations not as bad as usual today..except Cheltenham but apparently they are over 100 short tomorrow and ate begging staff to come in.

 

[Charlie M.]

I have only ever agreed with the RMT once, about DOO operation not being safe. But in a way they abuse there powers, they criticise everything that a company has decided, over exaggerate consequences and do not give two s**** about the traveling public.

 

[Parallel]

Cancellations not as bad as usual today..except Cheltenham but apparently they are over 100 short tomorrow and ate begging staff to come in.

How?!

 

[JN114]

Of note - the RMTs proposal as shared by bnm doesn’t actually bring Sundays into the working week; just offers a bigger carrot to those that work Sundays.

 

[jimm]

You missed out the middle paragraphs. They better show the RMTs starting position toward negotiations.

The RMTs announcement in full:

http://www.rmt.org.uk/news/members-updates/sunday-working-guards--great-western-railway090818/

So it's "Give us time and three quarters - no strings - for all grades not just guards, and retrofit buffets to the Class 80x, or we'll ballot for industrial action."

So remember folks, when GWR make a counter offer, or refuse the demands, and the RMT say they are negotiating in good faith with a TOC that is refusing to listen, this was the RMTs starting position.

Are we meant to be surprised by the RMT saying this kind of stuff? They always start out from the position of 'give us what we want or the cute bunny gets it' aka 'we will go on strike'.

Given your oft-mentioned dislike of GWR's management, you would probably regard whatever their opening position is as equally dogmatic and inflexible...

Perhaps they will meet somewhere in the middle, when they actually get round to negotiating.

In the case of buffets, I suspect this is actually shorthand for 'the Hitachi-supplied design of trolley is not much good, give our members something else to use instead' - which I would have to say would be my view as a passenger as well. It has next to no space to display what food/snacks are available and looks like it was knocked up with steel plate offcuts from one of Hitachi's shipyards.

It's not as if the RMT is still demanding the reinstatement of the 'shop' on XC Voyagers, is it?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Why the **** do RMT keep trying to incorporate the catering issue into a guard’s negotiation, it’s absolutely ridiculous. The issue has been specified external to GWR, end of story. It’s like protesting because the train is painted green and they wanted it red. Pathetic.

 

[bnm]

Given your oft-mentioned dislike of GWR's management, you would probably regard whatever their opening position is as equally dogmatic and inflexible...

It's a bit more nuanced than that. Nothing but praise for the management's handling of the Tanya Davis incident. And I fully back the management to not allow the RMT to walk over them.

So don't pretend to know how I will 'probably regard' a particular issue.

It's always attack mode with you when it comes to any posts that you may perceive to be anti-GWR. Or if they're not (mine this time is anti-RMT) you'll leap to a supposition to suggest anti-GWR sentiment. Sometimes the sun isn't shining out of GWR management's fundament. Other times they have my backing. Try and understand the difference between black & white and shades of grey.

Whether or not the passengers want a buffet, or if the catering staff are unhappy pushing a trolley up and down the train (or indeed any other grades' working conditions and Sunday requirements), should be irrelevant to a negotiation on guards Sunday working.

There's no doubt in my mind that the RMTs demands are designed to manufacture a dispute and are not a starting point to negotiating in good faith.

 

[embers25]

How?!

Not sure. Two GWR staff were discussing it on the table opposite me this morning. One of them read out the email GWR had sent them today begging anyone to work extra tomorrow.

Also interesting today was the 1000 from Bristol to Penzance having it's buffet replaced with free biscuits and water...with the guard asking people to be nice and share the biscuit supply. It was gone by Yatton but a nice touch I thought given many of us were on that train as the 0948 XC to Plymouth decided it would oversleep in the depot and not appear until 1035

 

[jimm]

It's a bit more nuanced than that. Nothing but praise for the management's handling of the Tanya Davis incident. And I fully back the management to not allow the RMT to walk over them.

So don't pretend to know how I will 'probably regard' a particular issue.

It's always attack mode with you when it comes to any posts that you may perceive to be anti-GWR. Or if they're not (mine this time is anti-RMT) you'll leap to a supposition to suggest anti-GWR sentiment. Sometimes the sun isn't shining out of GWR management's fundament. Other times they have my backing. Try and understand the difference between black & white and shades of grey.

Whether or not the passengers want a buffet, or if the catering staff are unhappy pushing a trolley up and down the train (or indeed any other grades' working conditions and Sunday requirements), should be irrelevant to a negotiation on guards Sunday working.

There's no doubt in my mind that the RMTs demands are designed to manufacture a dispute and are not a starting point to negotiating in good faith.

Many of the the things you have posted down the years about GWR's managers have been very far from nuanced or shades of grey, or is there something nuanced about calling for the managing director to 'consider his position'?

The contents of the RMT circular above will come as no surprise whatever to managers at GWR or any other organisation that has dealings with the RMT and are well used to them demanding the earth from day one and chucking in all manner of other things that are not relevant to the matter at hand while they are at it.

The company now seems keen to sort out the mishmash of terms and conditions for traincrew across the three service groups within GWR, so whatever you may think the RMT is up to, it may find itself having to do some serious negotiating in order to get the best possible deal for its members, which is what it is supposed to do.

 

[bnm]

Many

But not all.

Praise last week for providing additional services to Boardmasters 2018.

Praise earlier this summer for their Young Great Westerners campaign.

Praise for their LGBT 'Pride' work.

But never sycophancy or blind faith in a company with many problems, many of which the MD hasn't either got a handle on, or explained and apologised for.

bnm is but one name used on forums, and RailUK is but one place where I comment on rail matters.

 

[PHILIPE]

Cancellations not as bad as usual today..except Cheltenham but apparently they are over 100 short tomorrow and ate begging staff to come in.

There are also 3 cancelled services in each direction between Swansea and Paddington not even shown on Journey Check.

 

[jimm]

GWR must have found some staff from somewhere today, with half-a-dozen cancellations and a couple of trans not doing the full journey so far.

Unlike the brilliantly-managed Chiltern where, due to staff shortages, there are currently 22 cancellations listed and one London to Stratford-upon-Abon train terminating short at Banbury.

 

[FGW_DID]

There are also 3 cancelled services in each direction between Swansea and Paddington not even shown on Journey Check.

Most were down to ‘no driver’ but there was one journey (and return working) cancelled due to a train fault (DSD)

 

[Tim456]

Jimm, you’re determined to try and deflect the spotlight off GWR which this thread is all about.

As it’s become a points scoring affair, let’s talk about yesterday’s 40+ cancellations and short running services that GWR managed to inflict on its long suffering weekend passengers.

 

[jimm]

I'm not trying to deflect anything - merely pointing out that, yet again, when there are big holes in Chiltern's services as a result of train crew shortages - and the same happened on Saturday - no one here bats an eyelid or demands the heads of its management, who have a private train set south of Banbury and none of the multiple headaches GWR has to contend with at present that are in large part outside their control, such as electrification, resignalling, new and cascaded rolling stock from London to Penzance and high training demands linked to all those.

And whereas a lot of GWR services require both a driver and guard to operate, doubling the risk of a cancellation due to staff issues, Chiltern only needs to find a driver for all services operating south of Banbury, Oxford and Aylesbury.

 

[Kite159]

If you want to talk about Chiltern, then couldn't you start a new thread rather than trying to hijack this one about GWR issues?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I think the point is clear - the fact there isn't already a thread about other TOCs with similar issues week in, week out, proves that there are individuals on this forum who take pleasure in targeting GWR for fairly common problems.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I think the point is clear - the fact there isn't already a thread about other TOCs with similar issues week in, week out, proves that there are individuals on this forum who take pleasure in targeting GWR for fairly common problems.

1 - GWR covers a much larger area, so any issues they have will probably have a larger impact. Plus, for the longer distance services, Chiltern is generally a secondary ToC (London to Oxford is mainly GWR, London to Birmingham is mainly Virgin or West Midlands Trains) while GWR are the primary ToC for most of their long distance services.
2 - Are Chiltern really having as many issues as GWR are having? Where lack of available traincrew and lack of available units has been an issue for over a year now.

 

[Tim456]

I think the point is clear - the fact there isn't already a thread about other TOCs with similar issues week in, week out, proves that there are individuals on this forum who take pleasure in targeting GWR for fairly common problems.

I certainly don’t take any pleasure from seeing passengers having to put up with cancellations weekend after weekend.

The sooner this thread dies because things have improved on the GWR network the better. No one expects things to always be perfect but GWR have been regularly and consistently cancelling services at weekends for over a year now hence the length of the thread.

As I say let’s hope this thread dies because things have improved, something anyone who cares about the railways would want to see.

 

[D1009]

I certainly don’t take any pleasure from seeing passengers having to put up with cancellations weekend after weekend.

The sooner this thread dies because things have improved on the GWR network the better. No one expects things to always be perfect but GWR have been regularly and consistently cancelling services at weekends for over a year now hence the length of the thread.

As I say let’s hope this thread dies because things have improved, something anyone who cares about the railways would want to see.

I don't take any pleasure either, but the difference is that there are many members of this forum who are either regular users or staff of GWR than other TOCs affected in the same way. To try to give an example of a TOC that may be doing worse than GWR is a fine example of a "race to the bottom". Can we at least get at least a little bit behind the company and the staff in what it they are trying to achieve, which is to deliver the biggest upgrade in a couple of generations, in a culture vastly different from what happened 40 years ago. It was never going to be easy, however much one thinks it should be.

 

[jimm]

2 - Are Chiltern really having as many issues as GWR are having? Where lack of available traincrew and lack of available units has been an issue for over a year now.

Unlike GWR's managers and staff, about all Chiltern currently has to contend with is running the regular timetabled service.

This is the second year running that they have failed to deliver it on a number of days during August due to staff shortages but until I mentioned it, not a word had been said about it on this forum.

I don't take any pleasure either, but the difference is that there are many members of this forum who are either regular users or staff of GWR than other TOCs affected in the same way. To try to give an example of a TOC that may be doing worse than GWR is a fine example of a "race to the bottom". Can we at least get at least a little bit behind the company and the staff in what it they are trying to achieve, which is to deliver the biggest upgrade in a couple of generations, in a culture vastly different from what happened 40 years ago. It was never going to be easy, however much one thinks it should be.

I was not trying to indulge in a race to the bottom, or anything else, simply noting that a TOC that does not have any of the other things going on across its patch that GWR has had to contend with is also short of train crew and cancelling trains at weekends and on Fridays and Mondays - in order to set GWR's situation in some sort of context, whereas almost any issue with a GWR service, all too often due to factors outside their control, gets posted here.

We are broadly in agreement on the situation but there are rather a lot of people who still seem determined to ignore things like staff resources being stretched paper-thin for months on end, as a result of last summer's long delay to IET training and cascades of other rolling stock to almost every area of the GWR network and resulting training needs.

Chuck in some infrastructure issues (there seem to have been a lot of track faults in GW-land in recent weeks) on top of the electrification and resignalling work, and it is little wonder GWR has been having a tough time of it for an extended period. Just one person calling in sick can punch a hole in the service on a particular route for a large part of a day when there are so few people spare due to training needs.

Would having Sundays 'inside' the working week have made that much difference against such a backdrop? I have my doubts, especially when there have been quite a number of weekends where GWR cancellations have been worse on the Saturday than the Sunday, even when you factor in the lower number of services operating.

 

[Charlie M.]

Are there any Train Managers (not conductors) based at Cheltenham, or are they all from other locations?

 

[JN114]

Are there any Train Managers (not conductors) based at Cheltenham, or are they all from other locations?

No, all from other depots.

List of all crew depots for all TOCs in the careers section of the forum:

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/driver-depots.151508/

 

[PHILIPE]

A bad day for cancellations today, mostly HSS

 

[Mag_seven]

So far so good today - 0 HSS cancellations and on a bank holiday Saturday as well.

 

[jimm]

Does anyone know where all the people who kept telling us over and over earlier in the year how much worse GWR cancellations due to crew shortage would be during the summer holidays have got to today?

Meanwhile, what do we find over on Chiltern? Currently 17 cancellations expected due to crew shortages, mostly in the evening. Looks there were a couple of early ones as well.

 

[D1009]

deleted