ScotRail's December 2018 timetable change

[Journeyman]

I live in north west England and called in at Linlithgow station briefly while in Scotland in the summer. Presumably there are commuters from there, and from Polmont, to Stirling, who will now have to use the Cumbernauld train and change at Grahamston. This will not go down well.

I commute from Linlithgow to Glasgow. Peak loads to Stirling aren't huge, but it will inconvenience some people.

 

[Stopper]

I commute from Linlithgow to Glasgow. Peak loads to Stirling aren't huge, but it will inconvenience some people.

It doesn’t inconvenience loads of people, but it still inconveniences some (more than the actual reported numbers due to fare evasion). It’s a 15 minute wait at Grahamston. Despite not affecting that many, it’s replaced by a service that is of use to almost nobody (the Cumbernauld one). It would have been much better if Stirling got 4tph (2tph semi-fast, 2tph all stops).

IMO if you’re disrupting passengers (albeit possibly a small number), and replacing it with a service that is of use to less people, then it’s a bad move.

 

[Mingulay]

It doesn’t inconvenience loads of people, but it still inconveniences some (more than the actual reported numbers due to fare evasion). It’s a 15 minute wait at Grahamston. Despite not affecting that many, it’s replaced by a service that is of use to almost nobody (the Cumbernauld one). It would have been much better if Stirling got 4tph (2tph semi-fast, 2tph all stops).

IMO if you’re disrupting passengers (albeit possibly a small number), and replacing it with a service that is of use to less people, then it’s a bad move.

There are a fair amount of DUNBLANE and B of A passengers that board in the morning. It’s s commuter town so to reduce the commuting hours capacity is a huge backward step. But let’s hope it’s not as rumoured.

 

[yorkie]

This thread is to discuss ScotRail's December 2018 timetable change

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[Altnabreac]

It doesn’t inconvenience loads of people, but it still inconveniences some (more than the actual reported numbers due to fare evasion). It’s a 15 minute wait at Grahamston. Despite not affecting that many, it’s replaced by a service that is of use to almost nobody (the Cumbernauld one). It would have been much better if Stirling got 4tph (2tph semi-fast, 2tph all stops).

IMO if you’re disrupting passengers (albeit possibly a small number), and replacing it with a service that is of use to less people, then it’s a bad move.

I'm not sure anyone can be particularly worried about inconveniencing people who don't bother to buy a ticket.

 

[Stopper]

I'm not sure anyone can be particularly worried about inconveniencing people who don't bother to buy a ticket.

I agree. Dunblane services hardly ever have guards so fare evasion is very common on them, much more than you’d think.

Sadly the new timetable will likely be the future for a long time and I genuinely do feel for the people inconvenienced by it, as no matter what, it’s unlikely to change. I just hope the heavily cut original promises do happen one day so that there aren’t any stations left with an inadequate service, as this timetable will do so.

 

[Highlandspring]

Dunblane services hardly ever have guards so fare evasion is very common on them, much more than you’d think.

All Dunblane services have a conductor.

 

[Stopper]

All Dunblane services have a conductor.

Well they don’t always come to check the tickets then, I can absolutely guarantee that. Peak or off-peak I get my ticket checked about 10-20% of the time.

 

[Highlandspring]

I’m sure they don’t always check tickets but there is always a conductor on board.

 

[Stopper]

Unsure if this is the correct thread to post this in but I’ll go ahead and do so anyway.

Currently Newbridge Junction sees 10tph (11 some hours) in each direction. Nowadays 8tph of those are usually electric with 2tph being diesel services. There is regularly trains (mainly Dunblane, sometimes Glasgow, unaware of Bathgate services) held here every morning/evening peak times and it has long been an issue for commuters.

In December, this is due to increase to 12tph all day (13 sometimes). I appreciate all (bar a few per day) services will be electric and this will result in faster clearing of the junction but I can’t help but feel the additional 2tph will just cancel out the benefit of the electric services increased acceleration. It’s likely to be the Cumbernauld services that will now be “at the back of the queue” at Newbridge Junction now so I just hope this is not a problem that continues.

 

[DuncanS]

Well they don’t always come to check the tickets then, I can absolutely guarantee that. Peak or off-peak I get my ticket checked about 10-20% of the time.

Funny but I travel peak and I'm checked about 95% of the time (on Dunblane trains)
Its the Larbert to Camelon/Grahmston that is peak fare avoiders, plenty get on at Larbert every day and then gallop to the other end of the train from where the doors have been opened.

 

[Mulson]

People around Polmont & Linlithgow starting to realise there is no direct connections to Larbert/Stirling etc and it is not going down well at all.

 

[PYROOGOBBO]

People around Polmont & Linlithgow starting to realise there is no direct connections to Larbert/Stirling etc and it is not going down well at all.

I'm one of the people affected by no direct connection from polmont to larbert :< , handing first bus falkirk some extra business

and boy if we didn't wanna depend on first bus falkirk any more...

Any small bus company fancying some business? Cover that hole created

or we just gotta cynically wait at falkirk grahamston for a while

 

[318266]

I hope that tourists in Glasgow don't get the Edinburgh via Cumbernauld services when heading to Edinburgh.

 

[PYROOGOBBO]

I hope that tourists in Glasgow don't get the Edinburgh via Cumbernauld services when heading to Edinburgh.

Tbh the ride from Glasgow At least to Grahamston is actually pretty nice, very scenic.

i actually took the Queen street to falkirk grahamston train if i just wanted to relax, and sit back rather than be on the E-G Via falkirk high trains

 

[Stopper]

Funny but I travel peak and I'm checked about 95% of the time (on Dunblane trains)
Its the Larbert to Camelon/Grahmston that is peak fare avoiders, plenty get on at Larbert every day and then gallop to the other end of the train from where the doors have been opened.

Linlithgow-Grahamston must be one of the worst for fare evasion with all the kids going back and forward to college, and I know that all cross-Falkirk journeys are heavily evaded. At Stirling I used to hear loads of people buying tickets ‘from Larbert’ despite me seeing them get on at Linlithgow or Falkirk.

When I was at uni there, if I had extra time I’d often stay on the train to Bridge of Allan and walk. I had bought my tickets at Linlithgow but I could easily have had a free journey 90% of the time. There must be a lot of money lost on the Dunblane services. Remember that a lot of them run from non-barrier platforms at Waverley too.

 

[Mulson]

Linlithgow-Grahamston must be one of the worst for fare evasion with all the kids going back and forward to college, and I know that all cross-Falkirk journeys are heavily evaded. At Stirling I used to hear loads of people buying tickets ‘from Larbert’ despite me seeing them get on at Linlithgow or Falkirk.

When I was at uni there, if I had extra time I’d often stay on the train to Bridge of Allan and walk. I had bought my tickets at Linlithgow but I could easily have had a free journey 90% of the time. There must be a lot of money lost on the Dunblane services. Remember that a lot of them run from non-barrier platforms at Waverley too.

If a fair chunk of ticket sales aren't recorded from Polmont/Linlithgow to some of the stations Dunblane bound then that will likely have had an impact on the scheduling, not sure the problem would have been that bad mind you.

 

[route101]

I hope that tourists in Glasgow don't get the Edinburgh via Cumbernauld services when heading to Edinburgh.

Seen a few on Shotts stoppers !

 

[Mingulay]

People around Polmont & Linlithgow starting to realise there is no direct connections to Larbert/Stirling etc and it is not going down well at all.

And DUNBLANE BofA passengers are also now realizing we are to get a far poorer service with new timetable. Fewer trains direct. Less convenient timing. Changes at Stirling. Building in longer journeys on some services. This is a far cry from all the hype of more capacity faster journeys. True for some. But it’s been mis-sold to the public in our part of the line. Feel very hoodwinked as we suffer no trains next week to deliver a worse service. Thank you scotrail alliance ! All we can do is put political pressure on scotrail to reverse or mitigate the impact of these poorly crafted timings . I appreciate there can’t be more trains and new services without consequences. But it would have been good to get some Honesty in the briefings we were in for a sharp decline in the service. Gutted !

 

[Highlandspring]

Why do you alway write the word ‘Dunblane’ in capitals?

 

[Mingulay]

Why do you alway write the word ‘Dunblane’ in capitals?

For some reason my iPhone does that with place names . Does that bother you

 

[Highlandspring]

Not at all, I was just intrigued. My phone always capitalises the words ‘to’ and ‘from’ for some reason.

 

[Mingulay]

Not at all, I was just intrigued. My phone always capitalises the words ‘to’ and ‘from’ for some reason.

Perhaps some clever tech person can tell us how to stop it ! But get a row for going off the thread !

 

[dtaylor84]

Delighted to discover the best option from Edinburgh to Bridge of Allan in the evening peak now leaves 9 minutes earlier and arrives 14 minutes later, thanks to a 13 minute wait in Stirling!

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G89354/2018/12/11/advanced

Shambles of a timetable...

 

[Mingulay]

Delighted to discover the best option from Edinburgh to Bridge of Allan in the evening peak now leaves 9 minutes earlier and arrives 14 minutes later, thanks to a 13 minute wait in Stirling!

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G89354/2018/12/11/advanced

Shambles of a timetable...

Totally agree. Complete con pedaling the lie about a better service after all we have endured. Think it’s important we put keith brown our local map under unrelenting pressure as the transport minister who sanctioned Abellio to get this sorted or resign if he has any credibility

 

[Stopper]

I’m not sure if the timetables posted on these sites are 100% accurate but it seems to be all built around Stirling, with every other station just an obstacle!

From the new proposed SDA timetable I’d say the following:

Overall Winners: Stirling, Larbert, Camelon, Falkirk Grahamston

Overall Losers: Dunblane, Bridge of Allan, Linlithgow, Polmont

Much the same: Alloa, Croy, Lenzie, Bishopbriggs

 

[Mingulay]

I’m not sure if the timetables posted on these sites are 100% accurate but it seems to be all built around Stirling, with every other station just an obstacle!

From the new proposed SDA timetable I’d say the following:

Overall Winners: Stirling, Larbert, Camelon, Falkirk Grahamston

Overall Losers: Dunblane, Bridge of Allan, Linlithgow, Polmont

Much the same: Alloa, Croy, Lenzie, Bishopbriggs

So essentially. Half the stations are worse off. Half better off

Where in the hype and sales sprang did transport Scotland and Abellio say that it was the best ever railway for half of the central network. It really is a huge confidence trick.

I totally accept electric trains and new trains are welcome. But selling that on the promise of quicker journeys and more capacity is for half of us a lie !

If this is all about a boast of 5 mins off a GLASGOW EDINBURGH train but at the cost of longer journeys or less trains than for the rest. By any measure that’s a shallow headline.

I look forward to Alex H meeting us all in DUNBLANE. When are you coming to apologize ?

 

[tbtc]

I hope that tourists in Glasgow don't get the Edinburgh via Cumbernauld services when heading to Edinburgh.

There's going to be five routes (via Falkirk G, via Falkirk H, via Bathgate, via Shotts, via Carstairs), which might confuse some people - given the frequencies there might be thirteen or fourteen per hour from Waverley, which will mean some Glasgow services running within a minute or two of each other - bound to be people on the "wrong" service - at least the Cumbernauld services will get to Glasgow faster than the Shotts stoppers I guess.

And DUNBLANE BofA passengers are also now realizing we are to get a far poorer service with new timetable. Fewer trains direct. Less convenient timing. Changes at Stirling. Building in longer journeys on some services. This is a far cry from all the hype of more capacity faster journeys. True for some. But it’s been mis-sold to the public in our part of the line. Feel very hoodwinked as we suffer no trains next week to deliver a worse service. Thank you scotrail alliance ! All we can do is put political pressure on scotrail to reverse or mitigate the impact of these poorly crafted timings . I appreciate there can’t be more trains and new services without consequences. But it would have been good to get some Honesty in the briefings we were in for a sharp decline in the service. Gutted !

It's a better service overall. Dunblane/ Stirling lose their one "fast" service in hte morning and one "fast" service in the evening, but these non-standard services mean two Dunblane services arriving into Waverley within three minutes of each other in the morning (and two Stirling services leaving Waverley within three minutes of each other around half four and then another two Stirling services within seven minutes of each other around half five. But most Stirling services are faster, the loads on the Grahamston corridor spread between more services (so more seats for Stirling passengers), it's generally an improvement.

As previously pointed out, the numbers who travel will benefit vastly outweigh the ones who lose (and I'm not counting the supposedly large number who don't bother to buy tickets - don't expect the timetable to be based on your needs if you aren't contributing to the revenue).

Delighted to discover the best option from Edinburgh to Bridge of Allan in the evening peak now leaves 9 minutes earlier and arrives 14 minutes later, thanks to a 13 minute wait in Stirling!

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G89354/2018/12/11/advanced

Shambles of a timetable...

The current service is non stop from Haymarket to Larbert.

It's slowed down for Bridge of Allan/ Dunblane passengers due to the wait at Stirling (thought Dunblane passengers can change onto the Aberdeen service) , but also due to stops at Edinburgh Park, Falkirk Grahamston and Camelon. The first two of which are busy stations at rush hour (there's currently a gap from 17:14 to 18:14 from Edinburgh Park to Bridge of Allan/ Dunblane, despite the thousands of people who work there and will be looking to leave in the evening rush hour).

Same thing in the morning where the one removed service (from Dunblane to Edinburgh) is the ones that runs non stop through Falkirk etc, and arrives at Waverley only three minutes after the previous Dunblane service (the Perth train).

So the new timetable is bad because it misses out on the important links like Polmont to Larbert but the current timetable is good because Stirling has trains at rush hour that don't serve places like Falkirk/ Edinburgh Park?

Overall Losers: Dunblane, Bridge of Allan, Linlithgow, Polmont

Surely Linlithgow and Polmont are big winners since their passengers will get virtually empty trains at Waverley (since this thread has told me that nobody is going to use the Cumbernauld services beyond Camelon)?

So essentially. Half the stations are worse off. Half better off

Where in the hype and sales sprang did transport Scotland and Abellio say that it was the best ever railway for half of the central network. It really is a huge confidence trick.

I totally accept electric trains and new trains are welcome. But selling that on the promise of quicker journeys and more capacity is for half of us a lie !

If this is all about a boast of 5 mins off a GLASGOW EDINBURGH train but at the cost of longer journeys or less trains than for the rest. By any measure that’s a shallow headline.

I look forward to Alex H meeting us all in DUNBLANE. When are you coming to apologize ?

Objectively the new timetable is much better.

Not great if you live in Dunblane and are used to your rush hour services running non stop through Falkirk/ Edinburgh Park etc but for most people it's a lot better.

And the numbers benefitting from Glasgow - Edinburgh improvements vastly outweighs the "Polmont to Larbert" links that disbenefit.

 

[Mingulay]

There's going to be five routes (via Falkirk G, via Falkirk H, via Bathgate, via Shotts, via Carstairs), which might confuse some people - given the frequencies there might be thirteen or fourteen per hour from Waverley, which will mean some Glasgow services running within a minute or two of each other - bound to be people on the "wrong" service - at least the Cumbernauld services will get to Glasgow faster than the Shotts stoppers I guess.



It's a better service overall. Dunblane/ Stirling lose their one "fast" service in hte morning and one "fast" service in the evening, but these non-standard services mean two Dunblane services arriving into Waverley within three minutes of each other in the morning (and two Stirling services leaving Waverley within three minutes of each other around half four and then another two Stirling services within seven minutes of each other around half five. But most Stirling services are faster, the loads on the Grahamston corridor spread between more services (so more seats for Stirling passengers), it's generally an improvement.

As previously pointed out, the numbers who travel will benefit vastly outweigh the ones who lose (and I'm not counting the supposedly large number who don't bother to buy tickets - don't expect the timetable to be based on your needs if you aren't contributing to the revenue).



The current service is non stop from Haymarket to Larbert.

It's slowed down for Bridge of Allan/ Dunblane passengers due to the wait at Stirling (thought Dunblane passengers can change onto the Aberdeen service) , but also due to stops at Edinburgh Park, Falkirk Grahamston and Camelon. The first two of which are busy stations at rush hour (there's currently a gap from 17:14 to 18:14 from Edinburgh Park to Bridge of Allan/ Dunblane, despite the thousands of people who work there and will be looking to leave in the evening rush hour).

Same thing in the morning where the one removed service (from Dunblane to Edinburgh) is the ones that runs non stop through Falkirk etc, and arrives at Waverley only three minutes after the previous Dunblane service (the Perth train).

So the new timetable is bad because it misses out on the important links like Polmont to Larbert but the current timetable is good because Stirling has trains at rush hour that don't serve places like Falkirk/ Edinburgh Park?



Surely Linlithgow and Polmont are big winners since their passengers will get virtually empty trains at Waverley (since this thread has told me that nobody is going to use the Cumbernauld services beyond Camelon)?



Objectively the new timetable is much better.

Not great if you live in Dunblane and are used to your rush hour services running non stop through Falkirk/ Edinburgh Park etc but for most people it's a lot better.

And the numbers benefitting from Glasgow - Edinburgh improvements vastly outweighs the "Polmont to Larbert" links that disbenefit.

I accept the benefits for the flagship service is there. 5 mins quicker. More seats. No issue with that.

But the rest in the main suffer.

I say again. Where’s in the 3 years of hype was this explained ??

Politicians and transport officials and Abellio telling us this upheaval is going to make our journey to work better for us all !

No. It makes mine worse. Many others worse. Some better.

So lacking in honesty and candour this whole project.

I like new green trains for us all. Just don’t lie about better journeys and more capacity for us all ! Just the flagship GLASGOW EDINBURGH service. Headline grappling spin !

Totally spun.

I have no service next week. So all of us on this line need to drive or take a week off work. In return. We get a poorer service in Dec. it’s very unjust.

I hope that the pressure builds and the publicity of this own goal of this shambles backfires big time in our politicians and rail operator.

 

[Stopper]

There's going to be five routes (via Falkirk G, via Falkirk H, via Bathgate, via Shotts, via Carstairs), which might confuse some people - given the frequencies there might be thirteen or fourteen per hour from Waverley, which will mean some Glasgow services running within a minute or two of each other - bound to be people on the "wrong" service - at least the Cumbernauld services will get to Glasgow faster than the Shotts stoppers I guess.



It's a better service overall. Dunblane/ Stirling lose their one "fast" service in hte morning and one "fast" service in the evening, but these non-standard services mean two Dunblane services arriving into Waverley within three minutes of each other in the morning (and two Stirling services leaving Waverley within three minutes of each other around half four and then another two Stirling services within seven minutes of each other around half five. But most Stirling services are faster, the loads on the Grahamston corridor spread between more services (so more seats for Stirling passengers), it's generally an improvement.

As previously pointed out, the numbers who travel will benefit vastly outweigh the ones who lose (and I'm not counting the supposedly large number who don't bother to buy tickets - don't expect the timetable to be based on your needs if you aren't contributing to the revenue).



The current service is non stop from Haymarket to Larbert.

It's slowed down for Bridge of Allan/ Dunblane passengers due to the wait at Stirling (thought Dunblane passengers can change onto the Aberdeen service) , but also due to stops at Edinburgh Park, Falkirk Grahamston and Camelon. The first two of which are busy stations at rush hour (there's currently a gap from 17:14 to 18:14 from Edinburgh Park to Bridge of Allan/ Dunblane, despite the thousands of people who work there and will be looking to leave in the evening rush hour).

Same thing in the morning where the one removed service (from Dunblane to Edinburgh) is the ones that runs non stop through Falkirk etc, and arrives at Waverley only three minutes after the previous Dunblane service (the Perth train).

So the new timetable is bad because it misses out on the important links like Polmont to Larbert but the current timetable is good because Stirling has trains at rush hour that don't serve places like Falkirk/ Edinburgh Park?



Surely Linlithgow and Polmont are big winners since their passengers will get virtually empty trains at Waverley (since this thread has told me that nobody is going to use the Cumbernauld services beyond Camelon)?



Objectively the new timetable is much better.

Not great if you live in Dunblane and are used to your rush hour services running non stop through Falkirk/ Edinburgh Park etc but for most people it's a lot better.

And the numbers benefitting from Glasgow - Edinburgh improvements vastly outweighs the "Polmont to Larbert" links that disbenefit.

Linlithgow and Polmont passengers lose out on Larbert/Stirling links replaced with Cumbernauld white elephant services.

Unfortunately this service will likely be a single 3 or 4 car unit, meaning that Edinburgh services will already be filled up by Falkirk, Camelon and Polmont passengers by the time it gets to Linlithgow. Linlithgow could fill a single 385 on it’s own to Edinburgh. Linlithgow is also due an upgrade to 6tph to EDB.

It’s not an improvement for Linlithgow (especially) , Polmont, Bridge of Allan and Dunblane no matter what way you dress it up.


EDIT - any Linlithgow residents in here go and take a look at the Linlithgow Facebook group. Everyone is fuming about the timetable change. Several people complaining to the ScotRail website and rightly so.