EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Teflon Lettuce]

So basically your argument is based on a personal theory and nothing more.

nope... it is based on following current affairs and looking at the evidence presented by time.... at the end of the day an event takes place... each person interprets the evidence and comes to their own conclusion... just because my conclusions do not accord with your own does not make them any less or more correct... history is only ever written by the victor....

 

[Jonny]

not at all.. I made a prediction based on the evidence of history... and then watched the prediction come true... if you think I am cherry picking evidence please feel free to give examples where EU policy has been agreed to to the detriment of the German economy in the last 20 odd years...

I can't think of any. That is most likely because there are none.

Sorry if you don't like it, but the EU is effectively the fourth reich.

 

[fowler9]

Wow, so the EU is all down to Germany trying to create an Empire by means other than war. I mean history proves it, how much history proves it though? The British are massive empire builders and have a long and distinguished history of it to a far greater extent than Germany. Frankly I give up. I've already seen the "blame the EU" for our bad deal brigade in action. How dare they not let us pick out the best bits of the EU that we want to keep for free. It is frankly pathetic. Now we have a split country, a cabinet that is falling apart and a pointless and split opposition all because some people want it to be 1945 again. Yeah, "project fear" was arguably a thing and actually explaining to people what and how the EU is would have been better but what can you do when dealing with the fantasy realm the Brexit team lived in. We hold all the cards, easiest deal ever etc. etc.

 

[Ianno87]

not at all.. I made a prediction based on the evidence of history... and then watched the prediction come true... if you think I am cherry picking evidence please feel free to give examples where EU policy has been agreed to to the detriment of the German economy in the last 20 odd years...

Is there an example of an EU policy detrimental to the *UK* economy over the last 20 years? Answers on a postcard, please.

 

[EM2]

Is there an example of an EU policy detrimental to the *UK* economy over the last 20 years? Answers on a postcard, please.

Or the French economy? Or the Belgian? Or the Danish?

 

[507021]

not at all.. I made a prediction based on the evidence of history... and then watched the prediction come true... if you think I am cherry picking evidence please feel free to give examples where EU policy has been agreed to to the detriment of the German economy in the last 20 odd years...

The EU don't agree policies to the detriment of any economy, never mind the largest one in Europe.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

Wow, so the EU is all down to Germany trying to create an Empire by means other than war. I mean history proves it, how much history proves it though? The British are massive empire builders and have a long and distinguished history of it to a far greater extent than Germany. Frankly I give up. I've already seen the "blame the EU" for our bad deal brigade in action. How dare they not let us pick out the best bits of the EU that we want to keep for free. It is frankly pathetic. Now we have a split country, a cabinet that is falling apart and a pointless and split opposition all because some people want it to be 1945 again. Yeah, "project fear" was arguably a thing and actually explaining to people what and how the EU is would have been better but what can you do when dealing with the fantasy realm the Brexit team lived in. We hold all the cards, easiest deal ever etc. etc.

well I tell you what.... when the EU is a fully functioning democracy where decisions are taken by the elected members, and each member state has exactly the same number of MEP's as every other country so there is fair representation... when being a member of the EU doesn't mean you have to automatically let in every Tom Dick or Harry whether or not your infrastructure can cope with the sudden influx...then I might decide to change my mind...

However, my sole objection to the "deal" we have been "offered" by the EU is that it literally holds the UK to ransom... we can only leave the customs union IF the EU lets us.... and until then we will have to accept new rules without any say in their formation...oh and pay for the privilege...

Perhaps a Remainer can explain how being tied even closer to Europe is "leaving"

This travesty of a deal is an insult to every single British voter... remainers as well as Brexiters

 

[NSEFAN]

and how does that refute my argument that the EU economy is controlled in such a way that it is advantage Germany? in fact all you have done is try to justify 27 countries economies being manipulated to suit 1 economy...

It's not just 1 economy, it's all of the member states. As a member, it isn't in our own interests to allow another to go into financial ruin. If Britain doesn't want to be a member then it can leave, which it's, erm, doing.

 

[EM2]

well I tell you what.... when the EU is a fully functioning democracy where decisions are taken by the elected members, and each member state has exactly the same number of MEP's as every other country so there is fair representation...

Why should every member have the same number of MEPs when they don't have the same population?

when being a member of the EU doesn't mean you have to automatically let in every Tom Dick or Harry whether or not your infrastructure can cope with the sudden influx

You don't. The UK and Denmark were both exempt from the EU Migrant Resettlement Programme, and under EU law all states have the power to expel anyone after three months that is reliant on the state.

However, my sole objection to the "deal" we have been "offered" by the EU is that it literally holds the UK to ransom...

So, as I keep asklng, why negotiate at all? Just walk away.

 

[Ianno87]

well I tell you what.... when the EU is a fully functioning democracy where decisions are taken by the elected members, and each member state has exactly the same number of MEP's as every other country so there is fair representation... when being a member of the EU doesn't mean you have to automatically let in every Tom Dick or Harry whether or not your infrastructure can cope with the sudden influx...then I might decide to change my mind...

The number of MEPs per country is deliberately inconsistent. Smaller countries have more MPs per capita than bigger ones. Basically so that bigger countries don't 'bully' smaller countries in voting just by weight of numbers.

However, my sole objection to the "deal" we have been "offered" by the EU is that it literally holds the UK to ransom... we can only leave the customs union IF the EU lets us.... and until then we will have to accept new rules without any say in their formation...oh and pay for the privilege...

Perhaps a Remainer can explain how being tied even closer to Europe is "leaving"

This travesty of a deal is an insult to every single British voter... remainers as well as Brexiters

I don't get why its up to Remainers to explain that - we didn't vote for it to happen - Leavers did!!!!

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

I don't get why its up to Remainers to explain that - we didn't vote for it to happen - Leavers did!!!!

perhaps because, ultimately, it is our dear beloved {take tongue out of cheek} PM Theresa May that agreed to this Brexit deal and if you remember correctly she is a Remainer... so if a remainer came up with this load of cack handed codswollop then it should be up to remainers to explain how this plan fulfills Brexit

 

[fowler9]

well I tell you what.... when the EU is a fully functioning democracy where decisions are taken by the elected members, and each member state has exactly the same number of MEP's as every other country so there is fair representation... when being a member of the EU doesn't mean you have to automatically let in every Tom Dick or Harry whether or not your infrastructure can cope with the sudden influx...then I might decide to change my mind...

However, my sole objection to the "deal" we have been "offered" by the EU is that it literally holds the UK to ransom... we can only leave the customs union IF the EU lets us.... and until then we will have to accept new rules without any say in their formation...oh and pay for the privilege...

Perhaps a Remainer can explain how being tied even closer to Europe is "leaving"

This travesty of a deal is an insult to every single British voter... remainers as well as Brexiters

i really don't know why you replied to me. None of it is relevant to what I was saying about people saying it is all German Empire building (Jonny went as far as calling the EU the Fourth Reich). I don't want to leave the EU so why do you want me to explain why being tied closer to the EU is "leaving". We aren't being held to ransom, we can just leave, no deal.

 

[EM2]

... it should be up to remainers to explain how this plan fulfills Brexit

Because we will have left the European Union. That was the question on the referendum paper.

 

[fowler9]

perhaps because, ultimately, it is our dear beloved {take tongue out of cheek} PM Theresa May that agreed to this Brexit deal and if you remember correctly she is a Remainer... so if a remainer came up with this load of cack handed codswollop then it should be up to remainers to explain how this plan fulfills Brexit

I didn't vote the Tories in, I didn't vote leave and I didn't vote for Theresa May to be PM so You can jog on if you think I am going to explain this mess.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

Because we will have left the European Union. That was the question on the referendum paper.

but how can we be deemed to have left if we are in an even closer customs union... and are locked in unless Europe "allows" us to leave... remember we will not be able to leave the customs union without the EU's agreement.... and can you really envisage them ever agreeing?

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

I didn't vote the Tories in, I didn't vote leave and I didn't vote for Theresa May to be PM so You can jog on if you think I am going to explain this mess.

give her her due though Theresa May has re-united the country after Brexit... we're all united in our hatred of her and the claptrap that she's come back with as a "deal"

 

[fowler9]

give her her due though Theresa May has re-united the country after Brexit... we're all united in our hatred of her and the claptrap that she's come back with as a "deal"

Ha ha. I will whole heartedly agree with you on that.

 

[507021]

so if a remainer came up with this load of cack handed codswollop then it should be up to remainers to explain how this plan fulfills Brexit

No it shouldn't.

 

[Ianno87]

but how can we be deemed to have left if we are in an even closer customs union... and are locked in unless Europe "allows" us to leave... remember we will not be able to leave the customs union without the EU's agreement.... and can you really envisage them ever agreeing?

Unfortunately, turns out that trying to leave the European Union is in fact a little bit complicated. Comes with strings like this attached.

The Remain campaign did try to warn of this sort of thing, but got dismissed as "Project Fear" by leavers who obviously knew better...

 

[trash80]

Why should remainers have to explain anything? Leavers created this mess and they are going to have to own it.

 

[EM2]

but how can we be deemed to have left if we are in an even closer customs union... and are locked in unless Europe "allows" us to leave... remember we will not be able to leave the customs union without the EU's agreement.... and can you really envisage them ever agreeing?

Will the UK be a member of the European Union?

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

Why should remainers have to explain anything? Leavers created this mess and they are going to have to own it.

nope... Theresa May has always been a remainer

 

[507021]

nope... Theresa May has always been a remainer

Always blame the remainers...

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

Always blame the remainers...

well if it looks like a spade, acts like a spade, and says it's a spade.... why not call it a spade?

 

[EM2]

nope... Theresa May has always been a remainer

So why did none of the Leavers step up to the plate? Why did the party not select one of them as leader?

 

[507021]

well if it looks like a spade, acts like a spade, and says it's a spade.... why not call it a spade?

That doesn't answer why someone who voted remain has to explain how a deal to leave the European Union, which they didn't vote for, works.

The fact Theresa May was a (reluctant) remainer has nothing to do with it.

 

[Ianno87]

nope... Theresa May has always been a remainer

Crazy idea: Perhaps TM was genuinely trying to deliver a Brexit deal (which she has) that recognised that 48% of voters (half the country, let's face it) did not want to leave, rather than, you know, just ignore them.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

Crazy idea: Perhaps TM was genuinely trying to deliver a Brexit deal (which she has) that recognised that 48% of voters (half the country, let's face it) did not want to leave, rather than, you know, just ignore them.

I see... so to satisfy the minority she has come up with a deal that ties us even tighter to the EU whilst abdicating all our power... in short this deal is Brexit it name only and it is a betrayal of the majority who voted to leave

 

[Ianno87]

I see... so to satisfy the minority she has come up with a deal that ties us even tighter to the EU whilst abdicating all our power... in short this deal is Brexit it name only and it is a betrayal of the majority who voted to leave

But the majority *are* getting what was written on the ballot paper. Leaving the European Union.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

But the majority *are* getting what was written on the ballot paper. Leaving the European Union.

in name only