IBM (Halt) Closure & Possible Re-opening

[Bletchleyite]

has the correct consultation procedure been used? If not this needs to be challenged from a point of principle.

Does it need to be for a private station when the facility for which it was opened has closed (to the point of local Police making a point that people should not go there)?

 

[DarloRich]

Does it need to be for a private station when the facility for which it was opened has closed (to the point of local Police making a point that people should not go there)?

I don't know. However there is now a potential precedent - cant be bothered to consult? Just withdraw all trains. Station not closed. However is a station without trains not a former station?

What now stops LNWR deciding just to stop calling at, say, Stewartby or Kempston Hardwick?

 

[Esker-pades]

Would contacting the local MP be of use? IBM Halt falls into the Inverclyde constituency. The current MP for Inverclyde is a chap called Ronnie Cowan (SNP). I don't live in the constituency, so I'm not sure if I should contact him or my local MP.

EDIT: It appears that Mr. Cowan is on the Transport Select Committee.

 

[snookertam]

As inoban says, the Glasgow suburban lines suffer from single lines at their extremities. It’s unfortunate that we are in the position that some of the busiest routes where demand has increased over the years - Wemyss bay, East Kilbride, milngavie, balloch, Largs - all suffer from it.

Of course Balloch and Milngavie are completely unnecessary having previously been double track. They were victims of 1980's short sighted thinking where the belief appeared to be that passenger numbers would never increase again. The same kind of thinking tried to radically rationalise the layout at Newton with tragic consequences. Even the revised rationalised layout has been almost completely undone. We still have evidence of such thinking though with the Larkhall branch and even the extent of the single track on the Borders line.

As for IBM station, I doubt it will be missed and appears to be an anomaly that it is even still served.

 

[mmh]

I don't know. However there is now a potential precedent - cant be bothered to consult? Just withdraw all trains. Station not closed. However is a station without trains not a former station?

What now stops LNWR deciding just to stop calling at, say, Stewartby or Kempston Hardwick?

If a consultation on closing IBM was proposed there'd be a thread on here complaining about it being a waste of time and money within the hour. Quite understandably too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't know. However there is now a potential precedent - cant be bothered to consult? Just withdraw all trains. Station not closed. However is a station without trains not a former station?

What now stops LNWR deciding just to stop calling at, say, Stewartby or Kempston Hardwick?

Polesworth was, in any practical sense, no less ridiculous. So to all intents and purposes they already can. Edit: actually, Polesworth is a lot *more* ridiculous as it serves an urban area - with the industrial park closed and sealed off with 24 hour security and the Police saying basically "if we find you there we will assume you are up to no good", IBM serves no purpose whatsoever. Look at an OS map - there's nothing actually near it! Crikey, there is more practical need for Kildonan or Altnabreac.

FWIW, I thought the reason for such ridiculous Parly services (or the even more ridiculous once a week at Denton and Reddish South) was precisely that a station with no trains and no replacement buses *is* legally closed. So one of two things must apply - it doesn't apply to a private station (which Kempston Hardwick isn't, poorly patronised though it is), or the law is different in Scotland.

 

[Esker-pades]

I don't know. However there is now a potential precedent - cant be bothered to consult? Just withdraw all trains. Station not closed. However is a station without trains not a former station?

What now stops LNWR deciding just to stop calling at, say, Stewartby or Kempston Hardwick?

They could pull the "temporary replacement bus/taxi service" trick, but ScotRail told me via social media (so maybe take that with a pinch of salt) that no alternative transport would be provided.

 

[DarloRich]

As for IBM station, I doubt it will be missed and appears to be an anomaly that it is even still served.

If a consultation on closing IBM was proposed there'd be a thread on here complaining about it being a waste of time and money within the hour. Quite understandably too.

You either have a process or you don't. This station is a complete waste of time BUT in order to close it the correct procedures must be followed. We shouldn't be allowing any backsliding on that. Want to close the station? Do it properly.

Polesworth was, in any practical sense, no more ridiculous. So to all intents and purposes they already can.

FWIW, I thought the reason for such ridiculous Parly services (or the even more ridiculous once a week at Denton and Reddish South) was precisely that a station with no trains and no replacement buses *is* legally closed. So one of two things must apply - it doesn't apply to a private station (which Kempston Harwick isn't, poorly patronised though it is), or the law is different in Scotland.

however you cant, surely, simply withdraw the service without consultation. As I said this is a silly station and should close but in order to ensure that less scrupulous people don't just close stations that are a pita for the TOC then all must be held to the process.

 

[Bletchleyite]

however you cant, surely, simply withdraw the service without consultation

I genuinely suspect that that is actually not the case for a private station. There aren't many of them, but I'd imagine that Dunrobin Castle (which only receives trains when the castle is open) and Lympstone Commando (which is ridiculously still not open to the public) would be similar.

 

[mmh]

They could pull the "temporary replacement bus/taxi service" trick, but ScotRail told me via social media (so maybe take that with a pinch of salt) that no alternative transport would be provided.

...and if a replacement bus or taxi service was provided there'd be a Daily Record article on a waste of money service to nowhere within days. It won't happen.

 

[Esker-pades]

...and if a replacement bus or taxi service was provided there'd be a Daily Record article on a waste of money service to nowhere within days. It won't happen.

Replacement taxi on demand? IE: A person with a ticket to/from IBM can request ScotRail to pay for their cab fare to Branchton or Inverkip. That way, a replacement service technically exists, but nobody would use it. Win win!

 

[Bletchleyite]

...and if a replacement bus or taxi service was provided there'd be a Daily Record article on a waste of money service to nowhere within days. It won't happen.

And the Police may well object - they have stated that people are not to go there, as there is no reason to go there other than to cause a nuisance either by way of vandalism or "urban exploration" (or to tick the station off). None of those are reasons to have a station there.

There are things it *could* be turned into e.g. a parkway or a housing estate - but it hasn't been.

 

[DarloRich]

I genuinely suspect that that is actually not the case for a private station. There aren't many of them, but I'd imagine that Dunrobin Castle (which only receives trains when the castle is open) and Lympstone Commando (which is ridiculously still not open to the public) would be similar.

They are all open to the public.

 

[gingerheid]

Scottish caselaw is that it's harder to create a "parliamentary" service as it's not deemed to represent a "service", so I'm presuming they're relying on either different status of the station or claiming that serving it is a legal impossibility.

 

[318266]

Or do a Barlaston and just allow passengers for IBM from Glasgow to:

1. Get off train
2. Go to bus stop
3. Catch no.906 bus to IBM.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They are all open to the public.

So was IBM in practice, but it was legally only for the use of IBM staff - not even of other employers who for a while had offices at the park.

Stanlow and Thornton is an interesting one along those lines - it isn't officially a private station, but there is now no public right of way to reach it!

 

[DarloRich]

Scottish caselaw is that it's harder to create a "parliamentary" service as it's not deemed to represent a "service", so I'm presuming they're relying on either different status of the station or claiming that serving it is a legal impossibility.

that is the bit that needs clarifying.

 

[CarltonA]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allens_West_railway_station

Allens West is an example of a "private" station becoming public. I lived nearby shortly after it became publically timetabled and there were some old MOD signs lying around informing users that it belonged to them but did not actually forbid public use. It served a component recovery facility during the second world war which was later taken over by the Admiralty and used as a spares depot (now closed and serving as Durham Lane Industrial Park).

 

[NotATrainspott]

Someone could/should just get in touch with Transport Scotland and ask/FOI about the status of the station and any closure procedures. Presumably someone at TS was involved in the discussion about it being shut - even if it were just because the police said it should be.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Someone could/should just get in touch with Transport Scotland and ask/FOI about the status of the station and any closure procedures. Presumably someone at TS was involved in the discussion about it being shut - even if it were just because the police said it should be.

I do wonder if the present situation of trains from Glasgow not stopping relates to the Police - possibly making it more inconvenient to go there means vandals are less likely to do so (no doubt hiding in the bog as they do).

 

[A Challenge]

If have thought trains not stopping from Glasgow would be better. As they are in the timetable, can you complain about that?

 

[w1bbl3]

Just out of interest has anyone got a link to act / SI that opened the station in the first place as I've not been able to find it on either hansard or legislation.gov.

I'd suspect that legally the station is a private halt as it only serves private land with no public right of way and that this enables the normal rules of closure to not be followed. Providing a bus or taxi on demand would be difficult as only the access slips on and off the A78 are public which I'd suspect are legally part of the A78 and thus a "clearway" with no stopping allowed.

 

[Flyingsprinter]

As others have said the law must be different for private stations. Manchester United halt hasn’t had any trains in about a year for example.

 

[Hadders]

I agree with @DarloRich - the closure process should be followed as not to do so sets a dangerous precedent.

Also, I wonder if the Scotrail franchise mandates a minimum level of service at IBM?

 

[A Challenge]

Just out of interest has anyone got a link to act / SI that opened the station in the first place as I've not been able to find it on either hansard or legislation.gov.

Can you find anything about any other stations on the branch?

 

[Revilo]

I agree with @DarloRich - the closure process should be followed as not to do so sets a dangerous precedent.

Also, I wonder if the Scotrail franchise mandates a minimum level of service at IBM?

As well as the principle, and setting a worrying precedent, it is also a lot more difficult to re-open a completely closed station than it is to run more trains to an 'open' parliamentary station (different standard for new stations etc). Even stations that currently seem like basket-cases now could provide to be useful in 20 years time.

 

[bluenoxid]

I didn’t think that any recent (in the last 50 years) station reopenings required any Acts of Parliament unless the station was on a new railway line

 

[Jorge Da Silva]

I didn’t think that any recent (in the last 50 years) station reopenings required any Acts of Parliament unless the station was on a new railway line

Not since Transport and Works Act 1992

 

[380gk]

Just to clear up any confusion...All trains currently stop there as per timetable.
It’s only from december that this changes.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Not since Transport and Works Act 1992

I was involved in dozens of station openings (some re-openings) in the 1980s and 1990s and never realised that they needed an ‘act of parliament’. I know that some were opened after invoking the ‘Speller Amendment’ as ‘experimental’ (to disapply the closure process if they turned out to be unsuccessful).
Could you quote the specific legislative provision, please?

(For the avoidance of doubt, IBM opened well before the Speller Amendment and was never ‘experimental’.)