SWR Major Disruption 19/11

[RichardN]

The problems have spilled over onto Thameslink, due to a stuck freight train. https://twitter.com/TLRailUK/status/1064433704905449473

EDIT: This one. http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H43427/2018/11/19/advanced

 

[randompixel]

With so many trains cancelled, I'm surprised they are not advising people to stay at home. Certainly they aren't on National Rail Enquiries disruption page.

That says the incident was created at 3:34.

They certainly were on the JourneyCheck site at 06:30 this morning.

 

[kristiang85]

I went to BSK station to try to travel - my usual train was cancelled, so I decided to see if I could go via Reading. Unfortunately most had the same idea, and fitting onto those 5-car CC trains wasn't going to happen.

Luckily I have a very understanding/flexible job, so I'm just working from home today. I feel for those who don't have such flexibility.

I also feel sorry for the SWR social media people - this is all down to Network Rail (who have NO customer engagement really), but SWR are taking the flak.

 

[30907]

You have crews booking in at Fratton to work Pompey line services, you have the trains sat at the Harbour/Fratton to run the services and you have a point on the line, Guildford, where you can run a meaningful shuttle service to. Instead, they cancel everything!

Although I'm not sure why SWR appear to have gone for a total shutdown, not even attempting a shuttle between Waterloo and Strawberry Hill / Twickenham to keep some of the "side" lines running, until just now.

Actually some trains running to and from Pompey and Shepperton and most trains on the Reading line seem to be running after a fashion, says RTT.

 

[kev1974]

Actually some trains running to and from Pompey and Shepperton and most trains on the Reading line seem to be running after a fashion, says RTT.

Very little running on the Hounslow Loop even now, i guess they have already used up whatever they could get out of Strawberry Hill.

 

[DarloRich]

About time senior heads rolled - increasingly looks like they couldn't run a bath.

God job highly skilled people like you are waiting in the wings to take over and ensure there are never any problems. Incredible you have diagnosed the route cause of the problem and sorted it all out so quickly. Go you.

Might we perhaps work out exactly what the issue is before we reach for the black cap?

 

[Wolfie]

God job highly skilled people like you are waiting in the wings to take over and ensure there are never any problems. Incredible you have diagnosed the route cause of the problem and sorted it all out so quickly. Go you.

I make no claims to being able to do the job. As a trained analyst l can sift evidence though and there is sufficient to show a long sustained and ongoing pattern of failure, often apparently similar which suggests that lessons are not bring learnt. It is that which is unforgivable.
If the rail industry apologists were slightly less fast to circle the wagons they might recognise that too.

 

[Antman]

They will have modelled the costs of Cancelling almost every train Versus attempting to run a a service with what they have to where they can. And I suspect that as NR is swallowing the bill here, it's better not to run the risk of trains and crew in odd random places when it gets fixed because that will cost more/ not be recoverable from NR, so better to trouser the compensation and not run a service .... (am I being unfair here ?)

By the way, at 0600 the 0612 to Weymouth (the train my partner was aiming for) was still showing as "at platform" on RTT. It probably still is ! So is that stored overnight at WAT?

 

[DarloRich]

I make no claims to being able to do the job. As a trained analyst l can sift evidence though and there is sufficient to show a long sustained and ongoing pattern of failure, often apparently similar which suggests that lessons are not bring learnt. It is that which is unforgivable.
If the rail industry apologists were slightly less fast to circle the wagons they might recognise that too.

Do you know what caused this situation? Could you share the base data for your analysis of these lessons that haven't been learned?

BTW it isnt about "circling the wagons" or any other such silliness. It is about actually understanding what goes on, not trying to use your expert analysis on reports on a TOC website, forum or in the newspaper.

 

[GB]

I make no claims to being able to do the job. As a trained analyst l can sift evidence though and there is sufficient to show a long sustained and ongoing pattern of failure, often apparently similar which suggests that lessons are not bring learnt. It is that which is unforgivable.
If the rail industry apologists were slightly less fast to circle the wagons they might recognise that too.

What “evidence” have you sifted through on this occasion as I’m pretty sure the reasons for the over run are not currently in the public domain.

 

[oversteer]

Why is there no rail replacement service, at least on some key routes? Many may stay at home, but it could get some critical workers into town, at least

 

[DarloRich]

Why is there no rail replacement service, at least on some key routes? Many may stay at home, but it could get some critical workers into town, at least

because it is unplanned and you cant magic spare buses and drivers out of the air in the time available.

 

[Wolfie]

because it is unplanned and you cant magic spare buses and drivers out of the air in the time available.

Particularly in rush hour when they are all likely fully committed in any event

 

[Antman]

The problem is that you need to ship in about 150-200k. people. Then ship them out again. Where do you find 2,000 buses and drivers (joke..) ? How do you prioritise who is important and needs to travel versus those who just think they are? And given how bad it is, if you need to get home, say parents with childcrare, do you risk travel at all?

 

[oversteer]

because it is unplanned and you cant magic spare buses and drivers out of the air in the time available.

Of course you can, especially after the school peak. Abellio amongst others even offer it as a contracted service.

 

[JN114]

The issue is delays replacing a set of points on the Fast Lines at Durnsford Road (between Wimbledon and Earlsfield) - various issues through yesterday and last night have caused the work to slip and slip. As I understand all lines handed back shortly before half 9 - 5 hours overrun but ahead of how bad it was looking at some points overnight reading the control log.

It sounds harsh, customer unfriendly, whatever you want to call it but with my sensible hat on SWR probably made the right call not trying to introduce a shuttle to a point or points short of the obstruction. It is notoriously difficult to source any road transport on a weekday during school run hours - and even if you could we’re talking about moving tens of thousands of people. Coaches carry what, 60 people each? And everyone wants to go to the same 3 or 4 stations in London. Analyse the maths of that.

The big issue now will be no staff on certain depots during the day to allow trains off - Farnham, Staines and Guildford shunters are all, as I understand, night staff only; and currently have their full complements of berthed stock. That’ll be the challenge for the evening peak.

 

[adc82140]

Do you know what caused this situation?

And this is the problem. To put it bluntly, sh*t happens. Works will overrun. But I'm sure the public may be a bit more sympathetic with more communication. "Overrunning engineering works" is a phrase that will just get the travelling public angry. Perhaps there should be more explanation from NR- what caused the delay, why they couldn't foresee it, did something unexpected happen. Surely they must have known yesterday evening that something was amiss, which could have been shared via the SWR website, Twitter etc. Plans could possibly be altered the night before, but it's a bit late when you arrive at the station and find no service.

 

[Robertj21a]

Of course you can, especially after the school peak. Abellio amongst others even offer it as a contracted service.

Can you expand on this please. Does Abellio have plenty of drivers readily available, within drivers hours etc. Which of their depots have this spare capacity ?

 

[GodAtum]

I wonder how many people would lose their jobs after not being able to get into work (especially causal and blue collar workers)?

 

[Tio Terry]

The issue is delays replacing a set of points on the Fast Lines at Durnsford Road (between Wimbledon and Earlsfield) - various issues through yesterday and last night have caused the work to slip and slip. As I understand all lines handed back shortly before half 9 - 5 hours overrun but ahead of how bad it was looking at some points overnight reading the control log.

Fast lines. Wonder why they couldn't run some sort of service on the slows? Yes, it would need adjacent lines open working arrangements but is that not possible? Also, could trains not run to Wimbledon and turn back from there? At least there is a choice of Thameslink or LU from Wimbledon. I seem to remember trains turning back at Wimbledon in 1988!

 

[oversteer]

Can you expand on this please. Does Abellio have plenty of drivers readily available, within drivers hours etc. Which of their depots have this spare capacity ?

This is the service they advertise:
https://www.abellio.co.uk/rail-replacement/

No idea on capacity, but I’m sure they’d tell you if you ask.

The other networks do manage to rustle up services same day; LNWR with services to and from Luton/Stanmore, one I can recently remember.

SWR should have contingency plans for overrunning works and provide some way to connect to other stations, I don’t expect them to run shuttle buses stopping at every point to Waterloo.

 

[theironroad]

Fast lines. Wonder why they couldn't run some sort of service on the slows? Yes, it would need adjacent lines open working arrangements but is that not possible? Also, could trains not run to Wimbledon and turn back from there? At least there is a choice of Thameslink or LU from Wimbledon. I seem to remember trains turning back at Wimbledon in 1988!

I think there were issues around the Surbiton/Hampton court junction area as well. The Hampton CT bidirectional still seems to be blocked.

 

[theironroad]

This is the service they advertise:
https://www.abellio.co.uk/rail-replacement/

No idea on capacity, but I’m sure they’d tell you if you ask.

The other networks do manage to rustle up services same day; LNWR with services to and from Luton/Stanmore, one I can recently remember.

SWR should have contingency plans for overrunning works and provide some way to connect to other stations, I don’t expect them to run shuttle buses stopping at every point to Waterloo.

I think trying to run buses between Surbiton/edge of London inwards on a Monday morning trying to move a couple of hundred thousand people is going to end in tears for everyone. It might be look good on paper, but would be a droplet in the ocean of the capacity required.

 

[Robertj21a]

This is the service they advertise:
https://www.abellio.co.uk/rail-replacement/

No idea on capacity, but I’m sure they’d tell you if you ask.

The other networks do manage to rustle up services same day; LNWR with services to and from Luton/Stanmore, one I can recently remember.

SWR should have contingency plans for overrunning works and provide some way to connect to other stations, I don’t expect them to run shuttle buses stopping at every point to Waterloo.

That Abellio website refers to planned engineering work, not emergencies.
There will be very few buses or drivers available during a Monday peak.
Do you envisage SWR contingency plans that would cover every scenario, in every area ? - presumably with emergency bus services to many other locations ?
.

 

[kylemore]

I make no claims to being able to do the job. As a trained analyst l can sift evidence though and there is sufficient to show a long sustained and ongoing pattern of failure, often apparently similar which suggests that lessons are not bring learnt. It is that which is unforgivable.
If the rail industry apologists were slightly less fast to circle the wagons they might recognise that too.

You'll never beat the apologists on here Wolfie, they work shifts!

 

[Antman]

Needless to say, Cash has politicised it and blamed Grayling. What is wrong with simply putting your hands up and saying, "you know what, cockup. We absolutely know it. This was Network Rail and, if were going to have a decent argument for nationalising the railways, we need to get this sort of stuff sorted first." But he didn't, and he doesn't. He's a cheap rabble rousing soundbite man.

(From the last bastion of incisive journalism and aesthetically pleasing but badly not with the times displayed embenpoints, the Sun) "General secretary Mick Cash said: "The chaos into Waterloo this morning is just another example of the fragmentation and division on Britain's privatised railways where maintenance schedules and budgets are hacked to the bare bones while private operators like SWR are left with a free hand to rob the network blind in the name of profit.

"What we need is reintegration and a coherent system with all elements of the rail operation working together in one publicly-owned framework, with investment rather than exploitation as the watchword.

"While the crisis on our railways deepens, the Transport Secretary Chris Grayling is markedly absent while he ponders his self-interest and a possible resignation from the May Government. He should go, and he should go now."

 

[JN114]

Fast lines. Wonder why they couldn't run some sort of service on the slows? Yes, it would need adjacent lines open working arrangements but is that not possible? Also, could trains not run to Wimbledon and turn back from there? At least there is a choice of Thameslink or LU from Wimbledon. I seem to remember trains turning back at Wimbledon in 1988!

The fast lines are the centre pair of tracks from Durnsford Road. I imagine adjacent lines arrangements would be too disruptive to both what’s left of the train service and work progress - the work after all did originally require all lines blocked otherwise we wouldn’t be in this predicament to start with!

As for terminating at Wimbledon - Thameslink wasn’t running as engineers trains were backed up on the “loop”; plus the moving a manageable number of people to create an unmanageable number of people elsewhere problem I described above applies. Comparisons to 1988 are irrelevant as the numbers of passengers involved is an order of magnitude bigger now than it was then. On top of that the disruption in 1988 was expected to last for several days; not a handful of hours.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

The fast lines are the centre pair of tracks from Durnsford Road. I imagine adjacent lines arrangements would be too disruptive to both what’s left of the train service and work progress - the work after all did originally require all lines blocked otherwise we wouldn’t be in this predicament to start with!

As for terminating at Wimbledon - Thameslink wasn’t running as engineers trains were backed up on the “loop”; plus the moving a manageable number of people to create an unmanageable number of people elsewhere problem I described above applies. Comparisons to 1988 are irrelevant as the numbers of passengers involved is an order of magnitude bigger now than it was then. On top of that the disruption in 1988 was expected to last for several days; not a handful of hours.

In any case - re Wimbledon - the existing District line would have been the only route to London , and would be packed solid on departure (with diverted "local" traffic and bus feeder traffic) , so actually running shuttles in would just cause another layer of operational complication and problem) - probably not able to turn them round in any case.

Basically a day to forget , or to add to the list of days to forget.

 

[AndyHA]

Nothing will be done whilst May’s poodle ( Grayling) holds the transport brief in the Cabinet . He is just there as an intransigent “back stop” . Doing nothing to improve the situation on the Railways at all

But what else should we expect from a Trouser lining , penny pinching Tory Government!

 

[GarethW]

You'll never beat the apologists on here Wolfie, they work shifts!

Ain’t that the case.

You do feel that SWT would have attempted to run some form of service certainly south from Guildford rather than just throwing up their corporate arms.

I’m afraid the R in SWR increasingly seems to stand for Rubbish.