EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

[Howardh]

I doubt any one of those would get a majority.

So we a vote to relegate the least-wanted one out and vote again on the better fo the final two options.
Be fascinating if the first vote went
No Deal 0%
Remain 50%
Leave 50%
then it had to go to penalties....

 

[nidave]

One can’t help but think of that divorce bill and those contributions we make to the EU on a regular basis!

Rubbish - each EU migrant is said to contribute £2000 ish more than they use in services - considering leaving the EU is going to cost us approx £2000-3000 a year if we get no deal - who will make up the shortfall to pay for the services - so even if we pay £111 per person to the EU a year - we are still going to be worse of if we ignore all the other benefits from being in the EU brings. That £111 extra is nowhere near enough to offset the cost of leaving the EU

 

[bramling]

IMO "second homes" should be taxed to the rafters; and that money directly put back into the local community. If a building's unoccupied for 40 weeks it ain't contributing locally, if people REALLY need to escape to the countryside for a few weeks a year, park caravans can fill those gaps.

How much of a problem is second homes though? I can well imagine there's localised issues in some honeypot areas, perhaps the likes of Devon, Cornwall, North Wales and the likes, but in the places where pressure is greatest I can't imagine there's many second homes. I'd be surprised to find much property not being used as a main dwelling in, for example, St Albans or Cambridge.

 

[dgl]

Plus how much is it going to cost us to replicate/pay for the things the EU does for us already, such as certifying pilots?]

 

[dgl]

How much of a problem is second homes though? I can well imagine there's localised issues in some honeypot areas, perhaps the likes of Devon, Cornwall, North Wales and the likes, but in the places where pressure is greatest I can't imagine there's many second homes. I'd be surprised to find much property not being used as a main dwelling in, for example, St Albans or Cambridge.

But where there are a lot of second homes such as here is the westcountry it is a HUGE problem. Not only does it decrease housing stock for people who really need it and don't want to have to move away as that is where they have always lived, but it drastically increases house prices so even if there is housing available it's generally either to expensive or they use help to buy and get a modern crap box, which they will still probably struggle to support.

 

[adrock1976]

We’ve already had a dress-rehearsal for a “don’t know” in the form of the last general election result.

Thinking back to the 90s, every GE has returned a message of sorts, however the 17 election was very inconclusive.
92 - getting very tired of the Conservatives but don’t quite trust Labour / Kinnock
97 - totally sick of the Conservatives time for something fresh, and want to give the Conservatives a kicking
01 - still reasonably content with New Labour and still don’t rate the Conservatives one bit
05 - fed up with New Labour now but still not keen on the Conservatives
10 - totally fed up with New Labour now, let’s give the Conservatives a go but not with a full mandate
15 - Conservatives have been okay, let’s give them a nudge further, and punish the LDs
17 - Nomansland!

I think the real issue is the country as a whole is very divided on some issues, as well as a certain amount of division being injected by the likes of the SNP. A good PM/government would have found a way to reconcile this, but May simply isn’t a good leader.

A winner-takes-all system like ours is not set up to bring about reconciliation but operates rather to formalise polarity. And that's what they do, so that every few years wqe just swing madly from one side to the other and what was black yesterday is white today. It's a system that is utterly incapable of, and uninterested in, trying to bring the sides at least to some degree togethe after something as divisive as a referendum won by a very narrow majority. And there's no hope at all when a weak premier is concerned simply to act in the interests of her own party, with no concept at all of acting in the national interest. (And it doesn't help at all when "Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition" simply fails to do its job and oppose constructively.")

A bit of a delay in posting due to this thread opening up on this page.

From my time residing in Scotland, there does appear to be some distrust of the Conservatives, which explains for a good number of years the results in General Elections have been mainly Labour (both versions - the traditional Labour and Tony Blair's New Labour). From 1979 onwards, the results of General Elections have not reflected the voting pattern in Scotland at all, which I have listed below.

1979 - Mainly Labour, got Conservatives
1983 - Mainly Labour, got Conservatives
1987 - Mainly Labour, got Conservatives
1992 - Mainly Labour, got Conservatives (only just due to a late swing during the day of voting)
1997 - Mainly Labour, got New Labour (they were not new, and were most certainly not Labour)
2001 - Mainly Labour, got New Labour (they were not new, and were most certainly not Labour)
2005 - Mainly Labour, got New Labour (they were not new, and were most certainly not Labour)
2010 - Mainly Labour, got Conservative/Lib Dem coalition
2015 - Overwhelmingly SNP with 56 out of 59 constituencies, got Conservatives (only just due to errors in polling methods)
2017 - Mainly SNP, got minority Conservatives with support from Northern Ireland's DUP

Since the 1979 General Election, there has been a democratic deficit in that Scotland has not had the government it has voted for. While I am not a supporter of the SNP's version of independence, I do understand the disenfranchisement that has led to various individuals going for Scottish independence. Personally, I would prefer progressive federalism for the three countries of Great Britain (Northern Ireland can be returned to the Irish, which that would be for a different thread) with powers not just resting with London, Edinburgh, and Cardiff, but for the regions too.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

Personally, I would prefer progressive federalism for the three countries of Great Britain (Northern Ireland can be returned to the Irish, which that would be for a different thread) with powers not just resting with London, Edinburgh, and Cardiff, but for the regions too.

That's what Prescott's grand scheme for elected regional assemblies was meant to lead us I would think... IIRC that plan fell at the first hurdle when the North East were given a vote on whether to have a regional assembly and they stuck 2 fingers up at the idea

 

[Basher]

If May thinks she can get away with this pending situation, then she will kill the tory party. I'm no lover of Corbin but I would rather see him in power than staying with the EU. At least we can vote him out. We will have no say on who runs the EU

 

[Howardh]

We won't have any say if we're leaving....

 

[radamfi]

Are politicians ever questioned about the loss of free movement for UK citizens? If so, how do they respond?

 

[Basher]

We have no say now, from what our UKIP meps say. We are ignored.

 

[Basher]

Are we interested in free movement for UK citizens. They are a very small minority of our population . Anyone out there got any stats please

 

[radamfi]

Are we interested in free movement for UK citizens. They are a very small minority of our population . Anyone out there got any stats please

Millions have already exercised that right at some point in their lives. You obviously think it is acceptable to destroy my future.

 

[Ianno87]

How much of a problem is second homes though? I can well imagine there's localised issues in some honeypot areas, perhaps the likes of Devon, Cornwall, North Wales and the likes, but in the places where pressure is greatest I can't imagine there's many second homes. I'd be surprised to find much property not being used as a main dwelling in, for example, St Albans or Cambridge.

Fair amount of property in Cambridge is unoccupied. Lots of people who have skilled jobs in the local area, but will then move away for months or even several years for job openings abroad, with somewhere to cone back to when they return.

 

[Mag_seven]

Millions have already exercised that right at some point in their lives. You obviously think it is acceptable to destroy my future.

That's BREXIT for you - we have voted to give our ourselves less rights (and make ourselves poorer). Crazy!

 

[bramling]

Fair amount of property in Cambridge is unoccupied. Lots of people who have skilled jobs in the local area, but will then move away for months or even several years for job openings abroad, with somewhere to cone back to when they return.

Fair point. Unless we’re talking about foreign nationals, this wouldn’t be contributing to housing issues though, as it’s still one U.K. residence.

 

[Basher]

Millions have already exercised that right at some point in their lives. You obviously think it is acceptable to destroy my future.

You are the small minority expecting us the large majority to accomadate you. Is that fair on the majority, we are a democracy.

 

[Howardh]

You are the small minority expecting us the large majority to accomadate you. Is that fair on the majority, we are a democracy.

If people want to stay put that's their business, but they shouldn't get in the way of others aspirations, that's just selfish.

 

[radamfi]

You are the small minority expecting us the large majority to accomadate you. Is that fair on the majority, we are a democracy.

A progressive country is supposed to protect its minorities. You also don't seem to care about destroying my future.

 

[AM9]

I doubt any one of those would get a majority.

If those three choices were put to the electorate, one of them would get more votes, (unless you are expecting them all to get exactly the same number of votes)!

 

[Muttley]

A progressive country is supposed to protect its minorities. You also don't seem to care about destroying my future.

Your level of entitlement knows no bounds. From your statement of two years ago that "literally my life is over" to today's "destroying my future".

Free advice time, work hard, obey the law,be useful, and all countries will want you. Be a drain on them, financially or emotionally, and you won't be welcome. (That last bit works for friends and family also.)

You are doing yourself no favours, in that you're painting yourself such a bad person that you're a remainer tied to free movement, just so that the rest of the EU can't keep you out; as opposed to being positive and being wanted by your (clearly pre-) chosen country.

 

[mmh]

If people want to stay put that's their business, but they shouldn't get in the way of others aspirations, that's just selfish.

If people genuinely wanted to exercise their "right" to move to Slovenia, Lithuania or anywhere else in the EU wonderland they'd have already done so. They haven't, the people who moan about "futures destroyed" and other hyperbolic rubbish are living here and always would.

 

[mmh]

Are we interested in free movement for UK citizens.

Couldn't give a stuff about it, frankly. If we want to move somewhere the new country should be able to decide if they want us or not, and vice versa. It's Remaniac nonsense when it's suggested nobody will ever be able to come or go again.

 

[Teflon Lettuce]

Couldn't give a stuff about it, frankly. If we want to move somewhere the new country should be able to decide if they want us or not, and vice versa. It's Remaniac nonsense when it's suggested nobody will ever be able to come or go again.

and let's be honest... even with Australia's notoriously strict immigration rules it doesn't seem to stop anyone who wants to emigrate there getting their wish.. truth is if the country you wish to emigrate to wants your skills and you've not got a criminal record then they are going to want you to emigrate there... the problem with the way EU free movement is set up is that it overrides/ subverts the rules of supply and demand {in this case labour}...

 

[radamfi]

Couldn't give a stuff about it, frankly. If we want to move somewhere the new country should be able to decide if they want us or not, and vice versa. It's Remaniac nonsense when it's suggested nobody will ever be able to come or go again.

The new country has already decided they are very happy to have us and movement will only be stopped because of actions by the UK. Innocent people will get caught up in this. Obviously some people will still get through in both directions but some people will definitely miss out and that is a tragedy. More of a tragedy for Brits as other Europeans still have many other countries to go to.

 

[radamfi]

If people genuinely wanted to exercise their "right" to move to Slovenia, Lithuania or anywhere else in the EU wonderland they'd have already done so. They haven't, the people who moan about "futures destroyed" and other hyperbolic rubbish are living here and always would.

What about people who have had family commitments until now? Leaving now might mean having to split up with a partner or not being able to care for a relative.

Maybe the UK could try and stop making people want to leave, for example with continued hatred for cycling and cyclists and failure to implement quality, integrated transport.

 

[AlterEgo]

The new country has already decided they are very happy to have us and movement will only be stopped because of actions by the UK. Innocent people will get caught up in this. Obviously some people will still get through in both directions but some people will definitely miss out and that is a tragedy. More of a tragedy for Brits as other Europeans still have many other countries to go to.

If the new country really have decided they want you, why would Britain’s exit from the EU affect their decision?

Or really, do you mean the new country made absolutely no decision whatsoever about whether they wanted you there, and you were only able to move there because of the European-wide policy of free movement?

 

[radamfi]

If the new country really have decided they want you, why would Britain’s exit from the EU affect their decision?

Reciprocity.

 

[Ken H]

I doubt any one of those would get a majority.

a 3 way vote is an apalling idea.
we had a leave EU vote, and decided leave
the fcuk up the gov have made of brexit does not invalidate that
the decision is leave and WTO, or Mays withdrawal agreement, which doesn't seem popular.
If Mays WA does not get through parliament, then there is no legal mechanism to remain. Its WTO next year. European Union (Withdrawal) act says so.

 

[Ken H]

What about people who have had family commitments until now? Leaving now might mean having to split up with a partner or not being able to care for a relative.

Maybe the UK could try and stop making people want to leave, for example with continued hatred for cycling and cyclists and failure to implement quality, integrated transport.

do you really think the EU will impose Visa restriction on UK citizens going to EU countries?