Scottish shop owner ‘won’t hire staff who rely on ScotRail’

[takno]

Long time lurker on here. I enjoy this forum, although don't pretend to have a clue what most of the technical terms mean.

The business in question here has been in its Edinburgh location many years and is a well known name to most established Edinburgh residents. The commute into Edinburgh must be a nightmare for most people who come from Fife, Stirlingshire or Tayside, but if that were me, I would expect my staff to use common sense in taking travel time into consideration plus a bit of contingency irrespective of their mode of transport. The general consensus is that most have read the article as the owner having a dig at both Abellio Scotrail and the staff member.

Welcome to the forum. I've just had an ask around my town centre office and only one person out of 10 had heard of it. Might be that we're just not in the right demographic.

In terms of the job, I'm not convinced Edinburgh is yet at the size where it makes sense for shop keyholders to commuting 20-30 miles to get into their job. It's not just about getting in on time, it's the inconvenience to everybody when the alarm ends up sounding for hours, and the lack of access for emergency services when they need it.

 

[Deltic1961]

What if there's an hour between trains (as in my case) do you think it's reasonable to add an hour to my day by getting an earlier one just in case my train is cancelled or delayed?

Standing outside for an hour isn't ideal when there's a reasonable expectation that trains should be on time or within a couple of minutes.

I'm sick of people making excuses for a failing rail system.

 

[robbeech]

What if there's an hour between trains (as in my case) do you think it's reasonable to add an hour to my day by getting an earlier one just in case my train is cancelled or delayed?

Standing outside for an hour isn't ideal when there's a reasonable expectation that trains should be on time or within a couple of minutes.

I'm sick of people making excuses for a failing rail system.

Why should the shopkeeper adjust the opening times of a shop and adjust all the necessary things that are affected by this just because someone can’t get to their place of work?

Im sick of people using a failing rail system as an excuse for not being at work on time*



*i appreciate this isn’t entirely accurate but it follows the blunt nature of the previous post.

 

[GB]

What if there's an hour between trains (as in my case) do you think it's reasonable to add an hour to my day by getting an earlier one just in case my train is cancelled or delayed?

Depends on how important it is to you and your boss whether you are at work dead on time or if it matters if you are a few minutes late. If your job absolutely requires you to be on time and your chosen method and time of commute has a proven history of being constantly late then I do not think its unreasonable to be upto an hour early for work.

 

[Deltic1961]

Well if Scotrail paid me for the hour I'd gladly do it. Or they could just run a reliable service in the first place.

Just check the 18:45 Inverurie to Waverley over a period of say the last 3 months and you'll see exactly why people just give up with the train and walk away.

 

[robbeech]

Well if Scotrail paid me for the hour I'd gladly do it. Or they could just run a reliable service in the first place.

Just check the 18:45 Inverurie to Waverley over a period of say the last 3 months and you'll see exactly why people just give up with the train and walk away.

They will pay you compensation when you are late.

They’re not going to pay you an hours wage, your boss won’t be paying you the extra wage either as it’s not their fault you don’t live closer.
Anyone employed by me who was continuously late would have to explain why. If they went on to give this attitude then I’d have another look at the dozen or so CVs I get a week at this time of year to see if there were better options.

 

[takno]

What if there's an hour between trains (as in my case) do you think it's reasonable to add an hour to my day by getting an earlier one just in case my train is cancelled or delayed?

Standing outside for an hour isn't ideal when there's a reasonable expectation that trains should be on time or within a couple of minutes.

I'm sick of people making excuses for a failing rail system.

What if your hourly train was booked to arrive 5 minutes after your scheduled start time? Should the railway pay you an hour's wages for not not running at a time that suits you? If you're going to get into trouble for being a few minutes late then you have to leave enough contingency to deal with that. The reliability and scheduled timing of the trains is just something you've got to factor into that

 

[robbeech]

What if your hourly train was booked to arrive 5 minutes after your scheduled start time? Should the railway pay you an hour's wages for not not running at a time that suits you? If you're going to get into trouble for being a few minutes late then you have to leave enough contingency to deal with that. The reliability and scheduled timing of the trains is just something you've got to factor into that

Unfortunately (I’m not suggesting this is the case here of course) there are some people who genuinely think the railway is run for their benefit and cannot begin to fathom why there isn’t a train that runs from their house to their workplace at an 8tph frequency for 30pence including breakfast.
I remember the comments from woman a couple of years ago who thought that it was unacceptable that there wasn’t a direct train between Kiveton Bridge and Bingham every hour because that’s the journey she makes twice a month and as such she pays enough money for them to listen to her.

 

[fowler9]

It is everyone's responsibility to make sure they get to work on time but is frustrating when day to day a bus that is meant to be every 10 minutes will get you to work either 45 minutes early or two minutes late. I leave in time to have several back up buses and also a train which is also unreliable. If I am late four times in the next 12 months up to a grand total of eight minutes I get sacked. If only public transport was held to the same punctuality standard.

 

[Deltic1961]

It's quite funny watching people in here come up with every excuse to divert the attention away from Scotrail's piss poor performance. Only to be expected on a rail forum I guess.

Just have a look at Michael Matheson's Twitter feed (none of which he replies to by the way) and you'll see that the public are mightily peed off.

 

[robbeech]

There’s no diversion from anything to anything else. Do you genuinely sit there on this day and truly believe that you should be able to continue to catch a train that from experience is unlikely to get you to work on time and your employer will just have to deal with it? Do you also believe that you should be paid from your start time or the time you actually get there?
I hope your employer is more lenient than most would be.

 

[fowler9]

There’s no diversion from anything to anything else. Do you genuinely sit there on this day and truly believe that you should be able to continue to catch a train that from experience is unlikely to get you to work on time and your employer will just have to deal with it? Do you also believe that you should be paid from your start time or the time you actually get there?
I hope your employer is more lenient than most would be.

I am baffled that someone thinks people should be at their destination on time but seems to think transport providers should hold no responsibility for people to do so. If Scotrails service means people need to plan to be at their destination an hour before they need to be then a lot of Scotrail staff may eventually find themself looking for another job.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Have you thought about setting off 15 minutes earlier?

I did this morning and got in late by 1 minute again (the managers / owners are very much aware of the quite servere traffic problem on the road where my place of employment is located, so much so that we, the employees of the firm, are allowed up to five minutes extra whether travelling on foot or by public transport. Therefore if I clock in at 0804 I'm still paid as if I started at 0800. It'll be even worse once more housing is built in the local area, as more houses means more traffic.

It does come in handy when you do have very understanding management.

 

[robbeech]

I am baffled that someone thinks people should be at their destination on time but seems to think transport providers should hold no responsibility for people to do so. If Scotrails service means people need to plan to be at their destination an hour before they need to be then a lot of Scotrail staff may eventually find themself looking for another job.

I’m not arguing that it is acceptable for a public transport company to behave like this. I’m suggesting that it is not the employers problem and they should not have to endure financial or reputational penalty because their staff are late.
If they have a courier collect parcels at 0945 and the person unloving who should be doing so at 0930 doesn’t do so until 0950 and the collection is missed then the employer has to answer to potentially hundreds of pounds worth of refunds that will be claimed against them by the courier when things are not delivered on time.
I don’t necessarily think we are talking about 3 or 4 minutes here, we are talking regularly arriving 10+ minutes iate.

Yes the service is poor, but it is the passengers problem to get a different train, drive if they can, get a bus, mode closer, get a different job. Other options are likely workable.

 

[yorksrob]

Generally, unless somebody actually has to be at a place at a particular time for something, employers should be a little flexible to meet with people's circumstances. In this case, the shop has to be opened by a given time, so the person has to get there. However, the owner could have them come in earlier and open a little earlier, and stagger her hours with their own and cover when she goes home a little earlier. In this case the shop might get a little more morning trade.

 

[sheff1]

Perhaps the owner should not employ anyone who lives in Fife. Even better, only employ people who live within walking distance of the shop.

 

[robbeech]

Perhaps the owner should not employ anyone who lives in Fife. Even better, only employ people who live within walking distance of the shop.

Perhaps, if there are people with the necessary skills in the local area then maybe this will be an improvement. Of course if there aren’t people in the area with the necessary skills, THEN it becomes the shop owner’s problem.

 

[Stopper]

It's quite funny watching people in here come up with every excuse to divert the attention away from Scotrail's piss poor performance. Only to be expected on a rail forum I guess.

Just have a look at Michael Matheson's Twitter feed (none of which he replies to by the way) and you'll see that the public are mightily peed off.

That’s the majority of this forum for you. Scotrail Defence Force.

 

[LAX54]

Commuters are indeed an odd breed. For instance drivers allowing a 200% contingency on a journey of 15 minutes!

OK, as long as all the 'commuters' are happy. if I allow just enough time to get to work, plus 5 mins, but get stuck in regular traffic, I arrive 20 to 30 late, the signalbox closes for 30 mins, thus no trains for 30+ mins in my area, is this the fault of me, not alowing enough time ? Other cars for being where I want to be at that time? how dare they ! Highways becuase it's not a 6 lane highway ?
AND if I am late who can I claim from with delay and repay ? !

 

[noddingdonkey]

Unfortunately (I’m not suggesting this is the case here of course) there are some people who genuinely think the railway is run for their benefit

TOC management?

If there is a scheduled train it is absolutely reasonable to expect it to be on time on majority of occasions.

 

[robbeech]

If there is an employee contract it is absolutely reasonable to expect them to be on time on the majority of ocassions.

 

[robbeech]

OK, as long as all the 'commuters' are happy. if I allow just enough time to get to work, plus 5 mins, but get stuck in regular traffic, I arrive 20 to 30 late, the signalbox closes for 30 mins, thus no trains for 30+ mins in my area, is this the fault of me, not alowing enough time ? Other cars for being where I want to be at that time? how dare they ! Highways becuase it's not a 6 lane highway ?
AND if I am late who can I claim from with delay and repay ? !

You aren’t IN traffic you ARE traffic.

 

[cb a1]

If there is a scheduled train it is absolutely reasonable to expect it to be on time on majority of occasions.

That's why there are PPM (can't mind what PPM stands for) targets and Abellio need to be held to account for this.

Ironically, my train was actually on time this morning for the first time in months. It's been getting in to Queen Street consistently late by about 2 or 3 minutes for months. This was after my train home last night was cancelled!

I will however stand by my earlier post that as individuals there are other options to the train. If the service isn't good enough then vote with your feet. If Tesco aren't stocking the products I want to buy at the price I want to pay I don't expect the government to fix that. I expect the normal market economics to fix that. I appreciate that the rail system is slightly different in that it receives considerable subsidy from the taxpayer, but falling demand will get results far quicker than tweeting Michael Matheson or sending complaints to Scotrail.

 

[philthetube]

Perhaps John McKee, the gadgy who owns Hanover Healthfoods (goes to show what so called health foods do to you) could simply run the place instead and allow the member of staff some flexibility.

I have two jobs, one of them I'm usually a minute or two late but I do clock out three minutes later to make up for the time lost and my manager is OK with it simlply because of the traffic and even though I have set off ten minutes early, I've always been a minute or two late.

Whereas in my other job the manager is a full on dictator similar to Nicola Sturgeon, do I enjoy the second job? No, but I simply do it for the extra cash.

Good job your not a train driver, I will run the last train three mins late to compensate?????????????

TOC management?

If there is a scheduled train it is absolutely reasonable to expect it to be on time on majority of occasions.

Is some jobs the majority of occasions is not enough.

 

[richw]

Is this a protected form of discrimination?

Potentially indirectly? Someone who can’t hold a driving licence due to a medical condition may well be able to argue it is? Depends on alternatives like buses and cycling though being an option?

 

[sprunt]

Unfortunately (I’m not suggesting this is the case here of course) there are some people who genuinely think the railway is run for their benefit and cannot begin to fathom why there isn’t a train that runs from their house to their workplace at an 8tph frequency for 30pence including breakfast.

That expectation is in no way comparable to the expectation that the actual service should resemble the timetabled service. The complaint isn't "The timetabled service gets me to the office half an hour early", it's "I can't rely on a service timetabled to get me to the office half an hour early to get me to the office on time".

 

[fowler9]

I’m not arguing that it is acceptable for a public transport company to behave like this. I’m suggesting that it is not the employers problem and they should not have to endure financial or reputational penalty because their staff are late.
If they have a courier collect parcels at 0945 and the person unloving who should be doing so at 0930 doesn’t do so until 0950 and the collection is missed then the employer has to answer to potentially hundreds of pounds worth of refunds that will be claimed against them by the courier when things are not delivered on time.
I don’t necessarily think we are talking about 3 or 4 minutes here, we are talking regularly arriving 10+ minutes iate.

Yes the service is poor, but it is the passengers problem to get a different train, drive if they can, get a bus, mode closer, get a different job. Other options are likely workable.

Mate I completely agree that it isn't the employers responsibility but when the bus or train service is hopelessly unreliably where does that leave the service provider. I mentioned earlier I think that my local bus is every ten minutes. I am aiming for buses that get me in 45 minutes before my shift. There is one Northern train but it is completely unreliable. I have reached the stage were walking is probably the best option. I would agree that that is down to me but where does that leave public transport? That unreliable in Liverpool (4 miles from the city centre) that you are best off walking if you don't want to get sacked .

 

[route:oxford]

Discrimination based on the type of commuting???

We don't do it on the basis of *type* of commuting, but we do do it on the basis of home location.

Recruitment from OX18, OX28 & OX29 are all blocked as company policy due to the persistent unreliable timekeeping of the people who live in those areas.

 

[Timrud]

Why doesn't she get an earlier train?

 

[LAX54]

Why doesn't she get an earlier train?

That seems the obvious answer ! but with many that seems to be impossible, seems some are not prepared to take responsiblity for themselves these days !