GWR Intercity Express Train (IEP) initial diagrams & allocations

[sufian123]

Just seen something unusual

2x800 (800003, didn't see the other number) operating to Plymouth. One would think that they don't operate that route, hence why they have 802s as well.

800 can operate the route but waste more fuel on this route. 802s is better for south west route.

 

[JN114]

800 can operate the route but waste more fuel on this route. 802s is better for south west route.

There are also contractual considerations - 800s and 802s can only end their days at certain depots.

802 is preferred for WoE; but an 800 can deputise in certain circumstances.

 

[sufian123]

There are also contractual considerations - 800s and 802s can only end their days at certain depots.

802 is preferred for WoE; but an 800 can deputise in certain circumstances.

Yeah that’s right.

 

[Thunderer]

There are also contractual considerations - 800s and 802s can only end their days at certain depots.

802 is preferred for WoE; but an 800 can deputise in certain circumstances.

Spot on. However, as time goes along I can see it becoming a more regular occurance, 800's for 802's and vice versa, especially after disruption when sets need to get "stepped up" at Paddington. 802's are already fairly regular performers on trains to Swansea (although they were never originally intended to be used on the South Wales route). I think the 800's have had their engines uprated to 940HP and Im sure there is a programme to fit the 800 with bigger fuel tanks so they can practically match an 802 on a SW diagram (the only difference then is the DFT enforced "acceleration curve" on the 800) plus the contractual daily milage and end depot restrictions of the Agility contract.

 

[FGW_DID]

800010 was with 800003

 

[JN114]

Spot on. However, as time goes along I can see it becoming a more regular occurance, 800's for 802's and vice versa, especially after disruption when sets need to get "stepped up" at Paddington. 802's are already fairly regular performers on trains to Swansea (although they were never originally intended to be used on the South Wales route). I think the 800's have had their engines uprated to 940HP and Im sure there is a programme to fit the 800 with bigger fuel tanks so they can practically match an 802 on a SW diagram (the only difference then is the DFT enforced "acceleration curve" on the 800) plus the contractual daily milage and end depot restrictions of the Agility contract.

All correct - the 800s already have their engines unmuzzled and the larger fuel tanks were fitted before acceptance into GWR.

 

[oliverpckehoe]

All correct - the 800s already have their engines unmuzzled and the larger fuel tanks were fitted before acceptance into GWR.

Other than being incompatible except in emergencies, what's the difference between an 800 and 802 if they both have larger fuel tanks and uprated engines, and can a software change on one or both classes fix the incompatibility?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I might be wrong on this but I still sense that the actual diesel performance of an 802 is marginally superior to an updated 800. Perhaps because the ‘uprating’ is still by a contractual amount - and every unit must achieve it, from the best to the worst examples. Whereas the best 802 driven flat out will have that little bit more oomph. I might be wrong but riding both types multiple times per week, I’m getting noticeably faster runs on the non-TARA units.

 

[Thunderer]

I might be wrong on this but I still sense that the actual diesel performance of an 802 is marginally superior to an updated 800. Perhaps because the ‘uprating’ is still by a contractual amount - and every unit must achieve it, from the best to the worst examples. Whereas the best 802 driven flat out will have that little bit more oomph. I might be wrong but riding both types multiple times per week, I’m getting noticeably faster runs on the non-TARA units.

I think the 800 is restricted with a DFT enforced "acceleration curve" where as the 802 can open up and go "hell for leather" on full throttle from a standing start (the DFT enforced 'restricting' acceleration curve not being present on the 802's) - the acceleration curve was imposed to limit engine wear and maintenance costs on the 800, that is why you will find the 802 feels superior in acceleration.

 

[Thunderer]

800010 was with 800003

I wonder how they got on with Dainton and Rattery banks today with the wet rails and the gradients in Cornwall as well?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I think the 800 is restricted with a DFT enforced "acceleration curve" where as the 802 can open up and go "hell for leather" on full throttle from a standing start (the DFT enforced 'restricting' acceleration curve not being present on the 802's) - the acceleration curve was imposed to limit engine wear and maintenance costs on the 800, that is why you will find the 802 feels superior in acceleration.

Yes this is my point. Even 'uprated', the 800 is still restricted by a contractual acceleration curve, whereas I wonder if the 802 is simply let go completely on full power.

 

[JN114]

Yes this is my point. Even 'uprated', the 800 is still restricted by a contractual acceleration curve, whereas I wonder if the 802 is simply let go completely on full power.

Not quite let go, there is still some muzzleing at points in the speed range, but not to the degree seen on the 800s

 

[Thunderer]

Not quite let go, there is still some muzzleing at points in the speed range, but not to the degree seen on the 800s

I've just travelled back from Bristol Temple Meads to South Wales on a very well loaded and diverted 800301. Got to be honest, I thought it struggled a bit on the 1/75 bank up to Filton, either that or the driver was very conservative with the acceleration. I've been on a loaded HST and it seems to negotiate that bank a lot faster? I think its down to that limiting acceleration curve?

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Possibly you had a set with an engine out? Still a fairly regular occurrence at the moment.

 

[Thunderer]

Possibly you had a set with an engine out? Still a fairly regular occurrence at the moment.

All 5 engines were working when it pulled into Bristol Temple Meads as I was standing at the North end of the station and the whole unit practically passed me before reversing out up to Filton. It took nearly 11 minutes to get between Temple Meads and Parkway, I have timed a XC HST on the same section and the quickest is around 8 minutes on the 1S51.

 

[jimm]

I doubt the driver was in a hurry, given that the diverted trains are being allowed about 10 minutes between Temple Meads and Parkway, with seven minutes, or more, then allowed to reverse at Parkway to head towards Newport.

 

[ValleyLines142]

802018+802022 on 1229 Swansea to Paddington.

 

[31160]

Will there be any summer Saturdays only working for the 800's this year? Thinking of Newquay Weymouth or West Wales

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Will there be any summer Saturdays only working for the 800's this year? Thinking of Newquay Weymouth or West Wales

Realtime Trains shows workings out of Landore IET Depot and then on Pembroke services.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C26004/2019/06/29/advanced

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C26000/2019/06/29/advanced

 

[cactustwirly]

Will there be any summer Saturdays only working for the 800's this year? Thinking of Newquay Weymouth or West Wales

I believe there will be services to Newquay in the summer, as well as Pembroke Dock

 

[cactustwirly]

Realtime Trains shows workings out of Landore IET Depot and then on Pembroke services.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C26004/2019/06/29/advanced

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C26000/2019/06/29/advanced

Being pedantic it's Swansea Maliphant, as Landore is no longer a functioning depot!

 

[sufian123]

Will there be any summer Saturdays only working for the 800's this year? Thinking of Newquay Weymouth or West Wales

Not sure if Weymouth wizard running

 

[31160]

Thanks for your replies all

 

[Kite159]

Not sure if Weymouth wizard running

I believe that is being run with a Turbo (like last year)

 

[sufian123]

I believe that is being run with a Turbo (like last year)

Thanks

 

[FGW_DID]

Realtime Trains shows workings out of Landore IET Depot and then on Pembroke services.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C26004/2019/06/29/advanced

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C26000/2019/06/29/advanced

That first working you linked to works 1L34 07.29 to Paddington.

The ECS working for the Pembroke service at your second RTT link will be this one:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C26001/2019/06/29/advanced

 

[swt_passenger]

Weymouth hasn’t ever been included in the listed routes for IET gauge clearance.

 

[JN114]

Weymouth hasn’t ever been included in the listed routes for IET gauge clearance.

Neither had Pembroke Dock, yet here we are...

 

[Thunderer]

Quite a few 5 car short forms again today. 12:29 Swansea to Paddington, rush hour 17:30 Paddington to Taunton followed by the regularly nice and busy 19:15 Paddington to Swansea. With nearly all the fleet GWR IET delivered, how is this still happening on such a regular basis?

 

[JN114]

Quite a few 5 car short forms again today. 12:29 Swansea to Paddington, rush hour 17:30 Paddington to Taunton followed by the regularly nice and busy 19:15 Paddington to Swansea. With nearly all the fleet GWR IET delivered, how is this still happening on such a regular basis?

Various faults; I wasn’t aware there were all that many short forms of late - there’s been a fair few days recently where the only shortforms all day have been 9 vice 10 (no material loss of capacity). Of course no one was interested in those days...