Should disabled users upgraded to first class receive the full first class offering?

[cle]

There is some serious Shires pettiness and Little England curtain-twitch on this thread.

Give them the cup of tea and biscuit, and some respect... show some human kindness.

Would you willingly swap positions? First class (not a seat but a plot for their chair) and a free cuppa, for working legs? Oh how privileged they are!

I doubt it - so cut them some slack, and most importantly, mind your damn business.

 

[mmh]

Parent with two or more children... How will that work when either the parent of one of the children is a wheelchair user? They will have to all be upgraded.


However, I think the most aggrieved people will be the wheelchair users who buy first class tickets! Presumably they are expecting something more than if they bought a std class ticket....

Can we please stop saying "upgraded"? The concept doesn't exist on the railway. It's not an airline.

A child in a wheelchair will get the wheelchair space. Their parents will sit with them. Railway staff are trained to be and on the whole are very reasonable and pragmatic. It's a non-issue.

Do the same people so concerned about someone getting "the first class offering" (get over yourselves, first class on a train is not the Ritz) without paying for that cup of tea ever travel by air?

Everyone around you has paid a different price. Some people have been upgraded. Everyone sat in the same class gets the same service regardless.

Why do people actually care about this?

 

[bramling]

Mod Note: Posts #1 - #21 originally in this thread.

How does the wheelchair space in First Class only work...?

Personally I’m not really a fan of free first-class catering, as some users may want the extra comfort / space of first without wishing to be fleeced for a pack of cheap biscuits.

However, I tend to agree with the views of many that if that is the first-class offer then it should be extended to wheelchair users as a gesture of goodwill.

Isn’t it the case that technically railway staff on free passes can use first if their pass allows but generally must not avail themselves of the catering?

 

[yorkie]

Parent with two or more children... How will that work when either the parent of one of the children is a wheelchair user? They will have to all be upgraded.

I think you could be right, though it may be problematical establishing what the maximum size of any such group may reasonably considered to be.

But it's TPE's problem.

However, I think the most aggrieved people will be the wheelchair users who buy first class tickets! Presumably they are expecting something more than if they bought a std class ticket....

I am not sure; anyone who is aware of the situation could simply buy a Standard ticket.

 

[yorkie]

Isn’t it the case that technically railway staff on free passes can use first if their pass allows but generally must not avail themselves of the catering?

In theory, yes. However it's more practicable to communicate such a limitation to staff than it would be to a wheelchair user. It does not seem right to me that they should be told something like "we are placing you in 1st class but you must decline any invitation for complimentary food and drinks". And it would be a ridiculous position for TPE to place their staff in. It would have huge potential to backfire and generate negative publicity.

The only sensible and practicable thing to do is to allow everyone sat there to consume complimentary items .

 

[Esker-pades]

Surely this would work in the same way that other people get upgrades when they cant be catered for?

Example: I have been on trains where my reserved seat has been double-booked and been updgraded when I've spoken to the conductor. Of course I had as much tea and biscuits as I was offered.

I don't see why this is any different to someone who requires the disabled space. If there is no accomodation in standard, they have to be put in first along with all the complimentary items.

 

[Meole]

Whats the cost of a wee dram on the Edinburgh train, after all cheaper then second when booked in advance.

 

[yorkie]

Example: I have been on trains where my reserved seat has been double-booked and been updgraded when I've spoken to the conductor. Of course I had as much tea and biscuits as I was offered.

I don't want us to head off topic but the catering staff on an LNER train I was on recently said the complimentary offer wasnt available to anyone who had been given a free upgrade, however it was based on trust and there was no enforcement of this (and there couldn't really be).

I'm not sure it is the same as the situation nder discussion in this thread as you could be told "sorry for the problems obtaining your booked seat; feel free to occupy a seat in first class but please don't accept any complimentary food or drink" but I don't think it would be appropriate to say that to someone who is in their allocated space.

Either way, it's not practicable to enforce any such restriction for anyone on a TOC whose catering staff aren't the ones checking tickets.

 

[mmh]

I'll say again, sorry, there is no concept of "being upgraded" on the railway.

 

[JamesT]

Disabled Railcard is only £20, and wheelchair passengers do not need one to get the discount anyway.

Yes, it's £20. Giving a third off, you need to make £60 of trips in a year for the card to pay for itself. Hence disabled travellers who don't make that many journeys might not bother getting a card.

 

[Esker-pades]

I'll say again, sorry, there is no concept of "being upgraded" on the railway.

Clearly LNER, Virgin Trains, GWR, EMT etc. must all be wrong when they advertise "Weekend Upgrades".

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I personally think they’ve been told to go to first class so they should receive the full service.

Having said that however, if I had any disability either mental or physical (thankfully I have neither) I’d HATE to be treated differently to anyone, whether it was receiving better service or not.

 

[Master29]

I'll say again, sorry, there is no concept of "being upgraded" on the railway.

Of course it`s an upgrade as it says so on many TOC websites.

 

[Llanigraham]

I'll say again, sorry, there is no concept of "being upgraded" on the railway.

Sorry, but if a Train Manager, knowing I have a 2nd class ticket, gives me permission for any reason to sit in First Class then I have been "up-graded".
I see no other way of describing it.

From my personal experience when I have been up-graded to 1st all that has been said is "Don't take the piff", so have accepted the tea and cake, but not the full meal.

 

[Llanigraham]

Yes, it's £20. Giving a third off, you need to make £60 of trips in a year for the card to pay for itself. Hence disabled travellers who don't make that many journeys might not bother getting a card.

Don't forget that they also get a third off their "helpers" fare as well.
Personally I make a "profit" after just 2 journeys!

 

[robbeech]

We are aware than it likeky costs tpe about ten and a half pence to feed and water a first class carriage for a lunar month aren’t we? An LNER meal will be less than an English pound (and if it’s not they’re using the wrong suppliers).

 

[Busaholic]

First class has been the home of the wheelchair space on GA for a very long time now, users in the space are not entitled to first class complimentary items, but a cup of tea normally finds its way to them....

Does he take sugar?

 

[maire23]

When I travel with my wheelchair I’m often put in first class but I don’t expect any freebies- end of the day I didn’t pay for them!!
When my parents came down here for my graduation recently I paid a substantial amount of cash for them to travel in first on LNER between Newcastle and Peterborough. Dad is a wheelchair user and I would be mightily miffed if someone had assumed he’d been shoved in there gratis and him and mum didn’t get anything.
I guess that a bit of common sense should apply...

 

[adrock1976]

Regarding the complementary refreshments on TPE, it would be basic in that there would be a cup of tea and a cake or biscuits.

The catering is totally different on TPE, as that is an inter regional limited stop service that had its roots in the former Regional Railways North East division of British Rail.

On the traditional Intercity companies, I feel it may be slightly problematic with cooked meals especially if the wheelchair bound passenger is travelling for a short duration (such as Newcastle - Durham). There may have to be special equipment used and may not be sufficient time to set up, prepare the meal, consume, put equipment away, and get ready for leaving the train. I would like to note that I am trying to explain a hypothetical scenario here, and regarding traditional Intercity operators, to me it would depend upon the situational context relating to the passenger concerned.

 

[mmh]

Clearly LNER, Virgin Trains, GWR, EMT etc. must all be wrong when they advertise "Weekend Upgrades".

Clearly you don't understand the difference between paying a supplement and, as I said "being upgraded?" Of course you do though.

 

[nottsnurse]

It's quite obvious that a few folks on this thread have delusions of grandeur. As has been pointed out, '1st Class' on the UK's railways is hardly Pullman cars and black tie dining!

The sooner '1st Class' is got rid of on our railways the better. It's a waste of space on our increasingly congested railways and getting rid of it will, at the very least, give 'Annoyed of Tunbridge Wells' one less thing to whinge about. I mean how dare a member of the great unwashed sully the rarefied air of the bigger seats and 'free' cup of tea carriage!

Yours, a mere serf, doffing his cap as he leaves the thread backwards.

 

[anamyd]

I am surprised the original question was even posed as it was

I was just curious (you know the original question was literally the original question in the first post, not the merged thread title which is nothing to do with me, right...?)

 

[anamyd]

How is this even a question?? Someone’s been upgraded to 1st because there’s no adequate seating in standard, a choice made by the TOC. They’ve been UPGRADED. Simple as that. The only issue is when more than 1 person wants to use the facility. Can a group of 5 not travel together in 2019? That’s what I find hard to believe.

My original question was simply "how does the wheelchair space in First Class only work"...? Any merged thread title is nothing to do with me!

 

[LowLevel]

Clearly you don't understand the difference between paying a supplement and, as I said "being upgraded?" Of course you do though.

I can print out a coupon on my ticket machine emblazoned 'free 1st upgrade' and give it to whomever I wish for any reason within the realms of common sense as it happens

 

[driver_m]

Clearly you don't understand the difference between paying a supplement and, as I said "being upgraded?" Of course you do though.

Ok, but your trying to tell us that if a guard chooses to put someone in first on a standard ticket, that's not an upgrade? I know tons of our TM's who have done this. So what is it then?

 

[Deafdoggie]

Yes, it's £20. Giving a third off, you need to make £60 of trips in a year for the card to pay for itself. Hence disabled travellers who don't make that many journeys might not bother getting a card.

It costs £20, once you have saved £20 it has paid for itself. It is easy to save £20 on one trip.

I'll say again, sorry, there is no concept of "being upgraded" on the railway.

So the next time a 'Guard' says "I'll upgrade you free to First Class" I should reply "No, I think you'll find there is no such thing as an upgrade on Britain's Railways"

 

[J-Rod]

There is some serious Shires pettiness and Little England curtain-twitch on this thread.

Give them the cup of tea and biscuit, and some respect... show some human kindness.

Would you willingly swap positions? First class (not a seat but a plot for their chair) and a free cuppa, for working legs? Oh how privileged they are!

I doubt it - so cut them some slack, and most importantly, mind your damn business.

This.

 

[cjp]

..... that EVERYONE in a wheelchair has a terrible quality of life and the disabled people I know would object to that; but certainly they face barriers in life that an able-bodied person like he does not face so it'd be a bit rich if I complained about them getting a tiny little bonus that's insignificant in the big scheme of things that I don't get.

Just for the record I never wrote about people in wheel chairs having a terrible quality of life that is your personal interpretation of what I wrote. I used the word bad.
Thinking about it a better phrase would have been impaired quality of life. (Which would also apply to those temporarily in a wheel chair whilst physical damage mends.)

 

[sw1ller]

My original question was simply "how does the wheelchair space in First Class only work"...? Any merged thread title is nothing to do with me!

I’m a bit confused as to what’s happened in the thread now. I wasn’t aware it was a merged thread when I posted this. If that was your original question then it’s a perfectly valid one. Hope no offence was taken.

 

[Clip]

Can we please stop saying "upgraded"? The concept doesn't exist on the railway. It's not an airline.

You best tell the railway that then
https://www.virgintrains.co.uk/experience/first-class/weekend-travel/

A First Class upgrade is more affordable than you might think (see some of our upgrade prices below). To find out more about the full range of upgrade options, have a chat with your Train Manager

Upgrade ticket