Crossrail opening delayed (opening date not yet known)

[samuelmorris]

One thing I am curious about is how is oyster going to distinguish between hex and Crossrail passengers bearing in mind hex won't have dedicated platforms at old oak Common.

Will they have dedicated areas at the other end? Only one side needs specific barriers to record the correct fare.

 

[matt_world2004]

Will they have dedicated areas at the other end? Only one side needs specific barriers to record the correct fare.

No they only have dedicated platforms at Paddington.

 

[itfcfan]

One thing I am curious about is how is oyster going to distinguish between hex and Crossrail passengers bearing in mind hex won't have dedicated platforms at old oak Common.

I haven't seen anything saying that HEX will stop at Old Oak Common. It's possible they'll simply continue running non-stop to Paddington (albeit with increased journey time if pathing means they're behind a GWR service that will be stopping).

I expect it's academic anyway - once there's an alternative on the HEX platforms with a turn-up-and-go frequency and which continues to more central London destinations, I can't see many passengers persisting with HEX, however extreme the efforts of HEX ticket sellers.

 

[Howardh]

I haven't seen anything saying that HEX will stop at Old Oak Common. It's possible they'll simply continue running non-stop to Paddington (albeit with increased journey time if pathing means they're behind a GWR service that will be stopping).

I expect it's academic anyway - once there's an alternative on the HEX platforms with a turn-up-and-go frequency and which continues to more central London destinations, I can't see many passengers persisting with HEX, however extreme the efforts of HEX ticket sellers.

Yes, in that case it's hardly worth the extra cost to the ticket!

 

[Non Multi]

This has probably been discussed elsewhere but specifically I'm asking what's the future for Heathrow Express when this new line's up and running - from Heathrow to Paddington and central London? Looking at the map, looks like the new line won't take that much longer even if it calls at all stations, so is the express gonna be worth carrying on with? Or will the express have reduced fares to make it more attractive?

Heathrow Western Access. Fast services from Heathrow to Reading.

 

[sarahj]

After watching that video of the tunnels I'm surprised at the lack of connections between the tunnels. I spotted two, one each direction on the whole line. Any flexibility on the line seems almost impossible.

 

[si404]

One thing I am curious about is how is oyster going to distinguish between hex and Crossrail passengers bearing in mind hex won't have dedicated platforms at old oak Common.

It won't have dedicated platforms, but it will not share with the Elizabeth line, and thus premium HEx fares would still be able to happen.

I haven't seen anything saying that HEX will stop at Old Oak Common. It's possible they'll simply continue running non-stop to Paddington (albeit with increased journey time if pathing means they're behind a GWR service that will be stopping).

The way OOC is designed means that GWML non-stoppers aren't likely to get held up by stopping trains. However, I can't see stopping some trains on the Mains, but not others. Plus the Southern Access plans propose HEx (which is extended through to Woking and beyond) stopping.

 

[matt_world2004]

It won't have dedicated platforms, but it will not share with the Elizabeth line, and thus premium HEx fares would still be able to happen.

Won't it share with the Elizabeth line when the slows are used for engineering works. Also there will be reading gwr services on that line that can use oyster without a premium.

 

[hwl]

Heathrow Western Access. Fast services from Heathrow to Reading.

Western Access will connect with the Relief /slow lines so will need to stop a couple of times so they don't catch any thing up and crawl behind it.

 

[hwl]

After watching that video of the tunnels I'm surprised at the lack of connections between the tunnels. I spotted two, one each direction on the whole line. Any flexibility on the line seems almost impossible.

There are 2 underground Crossover caverns near Holborn (parallel to Central line platforms) and just west of Whitechapel and more comprehensive point work where all three tunnels surface.

 

[si404]

Won't it share with the Elizabeth line when the slows are used for engineering works.

Yes, as now with GatEx at Victoria and HEx at Paddington, there may be occasions, such as engineering works, where the route-specific gatelines aren't route-specific.

Also there will be reading gwr services on that line that can use oyster without a premium.

But those Reading passengers can be distinguished from the Heathrow ones, so that's an issue that can be dealt with.

And GWR might want to charge a premium - arguably something they'd be able to do from day 1 of Oyster west of West Drayton, what with Paddington High Level vs Low Level, and the Liz supposed to be taking over all the Relief line services (east of Iver at least).

 

[matt_world2004]

Yes, as now with GatEx at Victoria and HEx at Paddington, there may be occasions, such as engineering works, where the route-specific gatelines aren't route-specific.But those Reading passengers can be distinguished from the Heathrow ones, so that's an issue that can be dealt with.

And GWR might want to charge a premium - arguably something they'd be able to do from day 1 of Oyster west of West Drayton, what with Paddington High Level vs Low Level, and the Liz supposed to be taking over all the Relief line services (east of Iver at least).

GWR fares are going to be the same as crossrail fares West of West Drayton with the exception of concessionary tickets like freedom passes this is because the Iver to. Reading fare zones are taking up the last available slot on the older generation oyster cards.

 

[Non Multi]

Yes, as now with GatEx at Victoria and HEx at Paddington, there may be occasions, such as engineering works, where the route-specific gatelines aren't route-specific.But those Reading passengers can be distinguished from the Heathrow ones, so that's an issue that can be dealt with.

And GWR might want to charge a premium - arguably something they'd be able to do from day 1 of Oyster west of West Drayton, what with Paddington High Level vs Low Level, and the Liz supposed to be taking over all the Relief line services (east of Iver at least).

There will still be a GWR semi fast service to Didcot (or to Oxford when electrified) on the reliefs off peak. I'm sure TfL would like to have the reliefs all to themselves, but that's not happening.

 

[absolutelymilk]

Supposedly we should have a new opening date by the end of March, but it definitely won't be in 2019:
http://www.cityam.com/273774/crossrail-bosses-hope-give-estimate-new-opening-date-end

 

[si404]

There will still be a GWR semi fast service to Didcot (or to Oxford when electrified) on the reliefs off peak. I'm sure TfL would like to have the reliefs all to themselves, but that's not happening.

I thought they'd been nixed.

If that was finalised as only being at peak times, then sure - though I'm pretty sure there's an issue with adding any more trains off-peak beyond the Liz and freight to the Reliefs - at least as far as Airport Junction. And so any off-peak GWR services on the reliefs would move across (though they might just stop on the mains) west of there.

That said, a GWR non-fast service doesn't warrant a premium fare, and so charging the same amount as TfL to OOC is surely perfectly acceptable in the event that there is regular GWR service to the relief platforms.

 

[matt_world2004]

I thought they'd been nixed.

If that was finalised as only being at peak times, then sure - though I'm pretty sure there's an issue with adding any more trains off-peak beyond the Liz and freight to the Reliefs - at least as far as Airport Junction. And so any off-peak GWR services on the reliefs would move across (though they might just stop on the mains) west of there.

That said, a GWR non-fast service doesn't warrant a premium fare, and so charging the same amount as TfL to OOC is surely perfectly acceptable in the event that there is regular GWR service to the relief platforms.

No there. Would still be 2tph calling at Ealing Broadway, Paddington and some other stops beyond west drayton. In the off peak this service will also call at Hayes & Harlington.

 

[hwl]

I thought they'd been nixed.

If that was finalised as only being at peak times, then sure - though I'm pretty sure there's an issue with adding any more trains off-peak beyond the Liz and freight to the Reliefs - at least as far as Airport Junction. And so any off-peak GWR services on the reliefs would move across (though they might just stop on the mains) west of there.

That said, a GWR non-fast service doesn't warrant a premium fare, and so charging the same amount as TfL to OOC is surely perfectly acceptable in the event that there is regular GWR service to the relief platforms.

No If you look at the August 2018 London Reconnections article (shows stopping patterns) it is still happening off peak but the current understanding is that they would like to devolve the off peak to TfL as well given diagramming issues for GWR.

 

[Roger100]

Western Access will connect with the Relief /slow lines so will need to stop a couple of times so they don't catch any thing up and crawl behind it.

The Western Access tracks leave the GW relief lines and pass under the GWML on their way to Heathrow. Currently there is gravel extraction taking place above part of the tunnel route, so nothing much can happen there until it is complete and the land restored to agriculture. The planning docs optimistically suggest this will be completed after 5 years in 2012/22 and the line completed and opened in 2028. Realistically I think at least a couple of years need to be added, if it goes ahead at all.
Documents at the end of: https://consultations.networkrail.co.uk/communications/improving-rail-links-to-heathrow/

 

[kevin_roche]

Can anyone update me on if the ETCS L2 signalling upgrade has been completed on the line between Paddington and Airport Junction?

 

[JN114]

Can anyone update me on if the ETCS L2 signalling upgrade has been completed on the line between Paddington and Airport Junction?

It hasn’t even been started; at least in terms of fitting equipment.

 

[kevin_roche]

It hasn’t even been started; at least in terms of fitting equipment.

That's what I suspected. Do you know of any online documents that says that or give a new date when it is due to start?

 

[JN114]

That's what I suspected. Do you know of any online documents that says that or give a new date when it is due to start?

No. Even within the industry there isn’t any notional start date. It has no bearing on Crossrail - the only currently planned use of ETCS on Crossrail will be to replace the legacy ATP system on the Airport branch. That infrastructure has been installed and is currently undergoing testing.

 

[Non Multi]

I'm sharing this snippet from the Marlow - Maidenhead Passengers' Assoc. homepage. It gives a brief summary of the changes planned for Paddington High Level - Reading/Didcot in early December 2019. I've added colour to the text for clarity.
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Speed-up in December
GWR is consulting with stakeholders, including ourselves, on the new timetable to be introduced in December 2019. Journey times will be reduced as GWR takes advantage of the performance of its new trains. The speed-up should have happened last December but GWR got caught in the backwash of the Northern/GTR timetable fiasco last May. This year’s May update will be minimal.

The new timetables haven’t been finalised so we can't give details, but MTR-Crossrail will take over the two trains per hour (tph) service between Paddington and Reading (probably still branded as TFL-RAIL) whilst GWR will run 2 tph between Paddington and Didcot Parkway. The alternate stopping pattern (Taplow and Burnham vs Langley and Iver) will continue off-peak. During the peaks, GWR will run fast services between Maidenhead and Paddington with about half calling at Slough. MTR will provide the stopping service on the relief lines.

We are pressing for good connections at Maidenhead between the GWR mainline services and the Marlow branch.
[20190215]

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At Taplow there are notices in place for the closure of Approach Road and car park during this weekend so that the accessible footbridge can be brought in and installed.

 

[ijmad]

So the interesting part of that is TfL will take over the Reading services on time, December 2019.

This was originally when those services were supposed to become Crossrail and head in to the Crossrail core.

 

[Roger100]

So TfL will run the off-peak services stopping at Burnham and Taplow, and GWR will still run the off-peak services stopping at Langley and Iver?
To travel from Burnham to Iver off-peak we will still have to change at Slough. A bit of a disappointment then, and we will have to wait a few more years for direct off-peak services.

 

[Trailfinder]

With the TfL takeover of services comes the replacement of the relative comfort of the class 387s with the atrocious class 345s.

Will there be a reduction in fares to go along with the reduction in service quality?

 

[FOH]

You’ve just had your railway electrified and gone from 2 car trains soon to be 9 car and you’re moaning about the seats?!?

 

[Hadders]

With the TfL takeover of services comes the replacement of the relative comfort of the class 387s with the atrocious class 345s.

Will there be a reduction in fares to go along with the reduction in service quality?

I'd hardly call the seats on a 387 comfortable. Think yourself lucky that you haven't got to endure the uncomfort of a 700.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd hardly call the seats on a 387 comfortable.

The interior of the 387s is better in every way (but one, luggage space/rack size) than the 800s.

Think yourself lucky that you haven't got to endure the uncomfort of a 700.

Well, there is that. I don't understand the Class 700 layout at all. A layout like the S8s (or the near identical layout of the 345s) with decently spaced facing bays plus longitudinal would have made more sense. Same for Merseyrail, which seems to be getting a slightly 700esque layout in their FLIRTs.

 

[matt_world2004]

This creates a curious situation where some customers will be able to use their freedom pass in the peak and not in the off peak. Another curious situation it creates is that freedom pass users will be able to travel to Reading on a freedom Pass from London but not to the intermediate stations of Langley and Iver.