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Assessment day in a week.

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Driver2B

Member
Joined
21 Apr 2018
Messages
224
Was the same for me. They answered all the questions I prepared including salary based ones I was stuck and didn't ask any questions when they asked me if I wanted to.

A few of the questions I asked:
* From your experience, what would drivers say they like most about the job and what parts of the work do they find most challenging?
* How would you describe the work culture at this TOC?
* What is the proposed start date for this role?
* How long will training period be (varies between TOCs and depots)?
* Given the introduction of the new trains, would new drivers be trained in old traction which will be withdrawn soon?

The good thing about asking opinion questions is don't doesn't hint at lack of research, and you're not likely to be told the answer before you ask!

:)
 

Mahe

New Member
Joined
1 Feb 2019
Messages
3
Hello all,
I got my MMI coming soon and preparing for it. I have a fair knowledge of questions they ask. Just nervous that everyone is saying they tend to grill you on MMI. And ask same question over and over again,How did you feel ? Kind of question.
Any advice on this and preparation tips are highly appreciated.
Thank you.
 

AshDee

Member
Joined
27 Feb 2019
Messages
27
Hi,

As others have said, all parts are equally important - you have to pass them all! However, I spent most time preparing for the Group Bourdon Test, like I think most do, and that would be my advice to you.

The booklet they sent you will have given you some guide to what to expect, but I have posted the following elsewhere based on my experiences and recommendations. I hope that it is helpful!

-----

I attended an assessment day with a TOC which accepts national standards.


I understand that many TOCs have around 20-25 people taking the tests on that day. The TOC which assessed me, however, assesses fewer people at once (8 were due to attend but only 5 did). Of the 5 who attended, two worked for the TOC in guard or ticket office roles, and at least one of the absentees, too.


The TOC should have e-mailed you an information pack telling you what tests would be conducted, the procedures for them and giving your ideas for practice before the day.


The tests are designed to be psychometric, hence they assess your capabilities. I saw that when doing the tests. There are some people I know who I think could practice full time and still never pass. It assesses innate abilities, although, of course, some practice in advance can help you a little.


Initially, we were asked to wait in a waiting room. We were asked 1-by-1 to go into an interview room where our identity, including NI number, was checked. We were also given a colour-blind test. In this test, you have to read the numbers which you can see in circles made of different colours. Warning: There are some trick ones! There are no numbers on some of them - don't try finding one; just say you can't see one!


When that was conducted, we were taken to a room where we each had a desk with stationery provided. I brought my own pens which I usually use which I find comfortable.


The first test was the Group Bourdon Test. This is the test which most people find the hardest and I recommend that you spend most time practising. You need to find groups of four dots. There's a downloadable online tool: https://www.railforums.co.uk/attachments/bourdon-zip.36183/. I initially started doing it online and then moved on to printing and doing them on paper. You do get used to the patterns of dots on the tool, and they are different on the actual test, although the skills are transferrable. There are various people on this forum who quote how many lines you need to complete and how many errors you can make to pass. I was doing about 9 or 10 lines on the printouts from the tool with only 1 or 2 mistakes per page and I passed. Be very sceptical of people who say you need to complete 14 or 15 lines with no more than one mistake! (Of course, some TOCs require enhanced testing, which may require slightly more.) There was also a practice section at the start. The practice grids in the information booklet were less helpful than the tool (using letters rather than dots).


We then had a break while the test was marked. One person was asked into the interview room to be told that he failed so he was sent home.


The next test was the Test of Everyday Attention (TEA-Occ). This measures attention to multiple things and how well you can multi-task.

Part 1 required us to listen to beeps (some with low tones, others with 'high' but I'd call them moderate-to-low). You will need to count just certain tones (can't remember if it was low or high). An example is available here, but there weren't so many tones for each question: https://traineetraindriverinfo.com/low-tones-test-track-1/

Part 2 required us to do some simple telephone directory work. I think it was finding companies in a particular trade with a rating of three stars and with a phone number with a particular area code. It wasn't rocket science and probably doesn't need much practising, but it is designed to make you work quickly. You might not finish and don't need to.

Part 3 was the hardest, combining both part 1 and part 2. You hear number 1 read out and a number of beeps (only one tone this time). You need to write the number down when told. This continues. At the same time, you have a telephone directory task similar to part 2. You are told that both parts are of equal importance. You must use different pens for both tasks. When doing it, I got a good sense that I was truly multi-tasking. It's a good test, actually!

The booklet gives you some activities to help you. Recognising symbols probably isn't too difficult for most people. If you have somebody who could play patterns of two tones on a keyboard or piano (written down first so the answers can be assessed), that might help you, and also if they can play similar tones while they asked you to do a reading task / telephone directory task / wordsearch. However, I didn't practise much for this test and I know some others didn't either, and we passed.


The next test was the Trainability for Rules and Procedures Test (TRP), Part 1 which assesses how well you can learn new things. The railway rulebook is huge for a start, and you will also need to learn about fault finding and repairing, not to mention route knowledge. We were given a two-page information sheet explaining how "GLOP" is applied to the rails using a locomotive and application vehicle operated by a driver and a guard, including what controls there are, the colours and locations of them, when they should be used, the signalling system between the driver and guard, etc. We also heard a recording of this. We then had to hand back the information sheet and answer questions on the procedure. I found this quite easy, but some people don't pick up new information well, especially when there are lots of details. They give a very clear example in the booklet sent before the day.

Part 2 is sometimes known as the “dials” test. You get sets of 3 dials with pointers pointing to the number on each dial, and you have to put them in order (I believe starting with the largest). However, each dial has a different number range (one might go from 0-150 and another might go 0-500) so in that example, halfway on the dial going up to 500 would read '250' but the whole way on the dial going up to 150 would be only '150'. You have 43 questions to complete in 8 minutes and I don't think that anybody ever completes them all. Apparently, you are scored for correct answers but not penalised for wrong answers.


The final written test was the Written Communication Test (WCT), although I understand that this is no longer compulsory and some TOCs no longer do this. We were given a cartoon strip showing a taxi booking, a taxi picking a person up on time, delays on the route, and arrival at destination late. We had to write what happened. The only thing that matters is clarity so your writing needs to be legible, but not necessarily neat. You do not need to write in sentences - bullet points are acceptable. Grammar and spelling is not important if it does not obscure meaning. You can continue to look at the cartoon strip during the test - you do not need to turn it over or have it collected. I have been told that almost 100% pass this test - if your handwriting is legible and you can convey a simple story, even just in bullet points, you're fine!


Again, we were sent to the waiting room while the tests were marked - this took a long time (almost an hour, I think)!


The final tests were the computerised tests. There might not be one computer per person so some people might have to take the test while other people are waiting.


I think the first computerised test was the ATAVT Perception Test. You will view a picture of a street scene for approximately 0.5-1 second. You will then have to choose from the list (pedestrians; motor vehicles excluding motorcycles; bikes, motorcycles or scooters; road signs; traffic lights) what was in the picture. There might be as few as one or as many as five in any one picture. Many pictures are busy scenes and you will notice the presence or absence of some things, but for most of the time, you will not be certain that you have got them all right - there will be some guesswork or subconscious decision-making involved. This will suit people who are observant and can process quickly.

This video will give you a good idea of the test, but I think the pictures disappear more quickly in the assessments than shown on this video:

Asking a friend or family member to download some pictures from the internet and test you on them (giving you only a brief peek) might help.


I think the second test was the 2Hand Co-Ordination Test. You will have two joysticks, one will only go up and down, and the other will only go left and right. You have to control a ball around a track trying not to let it go off of the grey track, which includes curved sections. You will hear a screech when it does. This is repeated many times. It is aimed to be difficult and most people will not keep it on the track all the way around. We all thought we did really badly on this!


The final test was the WAFV (Vigilance) Test. You will see a grey square flashing on the screen. When it changes colour to a different shade of grey, you press the large green button as quickly as possible. This continues for 30 minutes, sometimes for long periods between changing. Also, your eyes imagine it changing when it doesn't. It's a good assessment because if you can't concentrate on being vigilant for 30 minutes, being in charge of a train might not be a good idea! When your eyes lose focus, move closer to or further away from the screen. Also, surprisingly, the colour changes aren't random but pre-programmed. Therefore if one person starts their test, another starts two seconds later and another starts two seconds later, you will hear the first person press their button, then about two seconds later the next person, and another two seconds later the next person.


We were then asked to wait in the waiting room again while the results were generated.


Finally, we were congratulated for passing the tests and advised about the next procedures in the application process. We were also given some basic pieces of advice for the DMI.


Hope that this is helpful. Feel free to ask any further questions!
Hi I’m new on this forum and have my assessment next Friday on the GB test do you have to do it left to right or can you do left to right and work back right to left on next line and so on?
 

LCC106

Established Member
Joined
16 Nov 2011
Messages
1,301
Left to right. If time runs out whilst you’re doing a right to left line you’ll likely have some errors and fail as it’s marked left to right. Accuracy is as important as speed.
 

AshDee

Member
Joined
27 Feb 2019
Messages
27
Left to right. If time runs out whilst you’re doing a right to left line you’ll likely have some errors and fail as it’s marked left to right. Accuracy is as important as speed.
Thank you
 

AshDee

Member
Joined
27 Feb 2019
Messages
27
Has anyone used the dvd available from amazon on how to become a train driver?
The tests seem very difficult are the actual tests just as difficult.
I found the picture memory test impossible
Also the joystick test as some of the patterns are curved and you are using only up down left right
 

Driver2B

Member
Joined
21 Apr 2018
Messages
224
Has anyone used the dvd available from amazon on how to become a train driver?
The tests seem very difficult are the actual tests just as difficult.
I found the picture memory test impossible
Also the joystick test as some of the patterns are curved and you are using only up down left right

I didn't use the DVD you mention.

Regarding the ATAVT Perception Test, I have previously written the following elsewhere:

I think the first computerised test was the ATAVT Perception Test. You will view a picture of a street scene for approximately 0.5-1 second. You will then have to choose from the list (pedestrians; motor vehicles excluding motorcycles; bikes, motorcycles or scooters; road signs; traffic lights) what was in the picture. There might be as few as one or as many as five in any one picture. Many pictures are busy scenes and you will notice the presence or absence of some things, but for most of the time, you will not be certain that you have got them all right - there will be some guesswork or subconscious decision-making involved. This will suit people who are observant and can process quickly.

This video will give you a good idea of the test, but I think the pictures disappear more quickly in the assessments than shown on this video:

Asking a friend or family member to download some pictures from the internet and test you on them (giving you only a brief peek) might help.

It is hard, probably even impossible, to get all the answers correct. When I did it, my counterparts and I found that we were doing lots of guesswork or subconcious decision-making. We were very unsure of the answers we gave.

Obviously there is a magic "pass mark" number somewhere which nobody in the public forum knows, but this is obviously about being "good enough" rather than perfect. I would suggest that observant people would probably do well at this test with little practise. Other people who are perhaps not very observant, might never be able to pass (I can think of some people in life I know like this!).

If you have a friend or family member who can download some pictures from a search engine and then show you these for a very short time, this could help you practise. However, I would suggest that most people don't practise too much for this test and pass. Don't overworry!

Regarding the 2Hand Co-Ordination Test, I have previously written the following elsewhere:

I think the second test was the 2Hand Co-Ordination Test. You will have two joysticks, one will only go up and down, and the other will only go left and right. You have to control a ball around a track trying not to let it go off of the grey track, which includes curved sections. You will hear a screech when it does. This is repeated many times. It is aimed to be difficult and most people will not keep it on the track all the way around. We all thought we did really badly on this!

Just to say, we all thought that we had done really badly at this, and we all found that our balls left the track. We were told afterwards that this is normal and as long as we got them back on the track relatively quickly, we would have passed. We all did pass.

I've not heard of any/many people fail this test, so unless you have really slow reactions, I wouldn't worry too much!

You're obviously trying really hard to prepare for these tests, but I would recommend worrying less! Unlike the Group Bourdon, where accuracy is expected to be close to 100%, these tests require less accuracy. They are also tests which I've not heard of many people failing.

Best wishes for your assessments!
 

Twotwo

Member
Joined
10 Aug 2018
Messages
586
The computer tests are easier then the paper tests tbh. The paper tests filters out majority of people. There was 6 of us during the stage 2 and only one failed.
 

Peeler

Member
Joined
8 Mar 2019
Messages
92
Hi,
After a 6 year wait I have finally been invited to an Trainee driver assessment day with SWR.

They have sent me an assessment document that outlines the layout of the day and gives me an opurtunity to practice some of the tasks.

I have a good idea of what’s expected but my question is, do you guys think there is any part of the day that is more important than others. I have 6 days left to swat on everything but should I be concentrating more on certain things?

Any other useful advice you could give me then I am all ears.

Many thanks

TC

Hi TC, were you there on the 28th? How did you get on?
 

Celrocks

Member
Joined
28 Jul 2019
Messages
39
Hi,

As others have said, all parts are equally important - you have to pass them all! However, I spent most time preparing for the Group Bourdon Test, like I think most do, and that would be my advice to you.

The booklet they sent you will have given you some guide to what to expect, but I have posted the following elsewhere based on my experiences and recommendations. I hope that it is helpful!

-----

I attended an assessment day with a TOC which accepts national standards.


I understand that many TOCs have around 20-25 people taking the tests on that day. The TOC which assessed me, however, assesses fewer people at once (8 were due to attend but only 5 did). Of the 5 who attended, two worked for the TOC in guard or ticket office roles, and at least one of the absentees, too.


The TOC should have e-mailed you an information pack telling you what tests would be conducted, the procedures for them and giving your ideas for practice before the day.


The tests are designed to be psychometric, hence they assess your capabilities. I saw that when doing the tests. There are some people I know who I think could practice full time and still never pass. It assesses innate abilities, although, of course, some practice in advance can help you a little.


Initially, we were asked to wait in a waiting room. We were asked 1-by-1 to go into an interview room where our identity, including NI number, was checked. We were also given a colour-blind test. In this test, you have to read the numbers which you can see in circles made of different colours. Warning: There are some trick ones! There are no numbers on some of them - don't try finding one; just say you can't see one!


When that was conducted, we were taken to a room where we each had a desk with stationery provided. I brought my own pens which I usually use which I find comfortable.


The first test was the Group Bourdon Test. This is the test which most people find the hardest and I recommend that you spend most time practising. You need to find groups of four dots. There's a downloadable online tool: https://www.railforums.co.uk/attachments/bourdon-zip.36183/. I initially started doing it online and then moved on to printing and doing them on paper. You do get used to the patterns of dots on the tool, and they are different on the actual test, although the skills are transferrable. There are various people on this forum who quote how many lines you need to complete and how many errors you can make to pass. I was doing about 9 or 10 lines on the printouts from the tool with only 1 or 2 mistakes per page and I passed. Be very sceptical of people who say you need to complete 14 or 15 lines with no more than one mistake! (Of course, some TOCs require enhanced testing, which may require slightly more.) There was also a practice section at the start. The practice grids in the information booklet were less helpful than the tool (using letters rather than dots).


We then had a break while the test was marked. One person was asked into the interview room to be told that he failed so he was sent home.


The next test was the Test of Everyday Attention (TEA-Occ). This measures attention to multiple things and how well you can multi-task.

Part 1 required us to listen to beeps (some with low tones, others with 'high' but I'd call them moderate-to-low). You will need to count just certain tones (can't remember if it was low or high). An example is available here, but there weren't so many tones for each question: https://traineetraindriverinfo.com/low-tones-test-track-1/

Part 2 required us to do some simple telephone directory work. I think it was finding companies in a particular trade with a rating of three stars and with a phone number with a particular area code. It wasn't rocket science and probably doesn't need much practising, but it is designed to make you work quickly. You might not finish and don't need to.

Part 3 was the hardest, combining both part 1 and part 2. You hear number 1 read out and a number of beeps (only one tone this time). You need to write the number down when told. This continues. At the same time, you have a telephone directory task similar to part 2. You are told that both parts are of equal importance. You must use different pens for both tasks. When doing it, I got a good sense that I was truly multi-tasking. It's a good test, actually!

The booklet gives you some activities to help you. Recognising symbols probably isn't too difficult for most people. If you have somebody who could play patterns of two tones on a keyboard or piano (written down first so the answers can be assessed), that might help you, and also if they can play similar tones while they asked you to do a reading task / telephone directory task / wordsearch. However, I didn't practise much for this test and I know some others didn't either, and we passed.


The next test was the Trainability for Rules and Procedures Test (TRP), Part 1 which assesses how well you can learn new things. The railway rulebook is huge for a start, and you will also need to learn about fault finding and repairing, not to mention route knowledge. We were given a two-page information sheet explaining how "GLOP" is applied to the rails using a locomotive and application vehicle operated by a driver and a guard, including what controls there are, the colours and locations of them, when they should be used, the signalling system between the driver and guard, etc. We also heard a recording of this. We then had to hand back the information sheet and answer questions on the procedure. I found this quite easy, but some people don't pick up new information well, especially when there are lots of details. They give a very clear example in the booklet sent before the day.

Part 2 is sometimes known as the “dials” test. You get sets of 3 dials with pointers pointing to the number on each dial, and you have to put them in order (I believe starting with the largest). However, each dial has a different number range (one might go from 0-150 and another might go 0-500) so in that example, halfway on the dial going up to 500 would read '250' but the whole way on the dial going up to 150 would be only '150'. You have 43 questions to complete in 8 minutes and I don't think that anybody ever completes them all. Apparently, you are scored for correct answers but not penalised for wrong answers.


The final written test was the Written Communication Test (WCT), although I understand that this is no longer compulsory and some TOCs no longer do this. We were given a cartoon strip showing a taxi booking, a taxi picking a person up on time, delays on the route, and arrival at destination late. We had to write what happened. The only thing that matters is clarity so your writing needs to be legible, but not necessarily neat. You do not need to write in sentences - bullet points are acceptable. Grammar and spelling is not important if it does not obscure meaning. You can continue to look at the cartoon strip during the test - you do not need to turn it over or have it collected. I have been told that almost 100% pass this test - if your handwriting is legible and you can convey a simple story, even just in bullet points, you're fine!


Again, we were sent to the waiting room while the tests were marked - this took a long time (almost an hour, I think)!


The final tests were the computerised tests. There might not be one computer per person so some people might have to take the test while other people are waiting.


I think the first computerised test was the ATAVT Perception Test. You will view a picture of a street scene for approximately 0.5-1 second. You will then have to choose from the list (pedestrians; motor vehicles excluding motorcycles; bikes, motorcycles or scooters; road signs; traffic lights) what was in the picture. There might be as few as one or as many as five in any one picture. Many pictures are busy scenes and you will notice the presence or absence of some things, but for most of the time, you will not be certain that you have got them all right - there will be some guesswork or subconscious decision-making involved. This will suit people who are observant and can process quickly.

This video will give you a good idea of the test, but I think the pictures disappear more quickly in the assessments than shown on this video:

Asking a friend or family member to download some pictures from the internet and test you on them (giving you only a brief peek) might help.


I think the second test was the 2Hand Co-Ordination Test. You will have two joysticks, one will only go up and down, and the other will only go left and right. You have to control a ball around a track trying not to let it go off of the grey track, which includes curved sections. You will hear a screech when it does. This is repeated many times. It is aimed to be difficult and most people will not keep it on the track all the way around. We all thought we did really badly on this!


The final test was the WAFV (Vigilance) Test. You will see a grey square flashing on the screen. When it changes colour to a different shade of grey, you press the large green button as quickly as possible. This continues for 30 minutes, sometimes for long periods between changing. Also, your eyes imagine it changing when it doesn't. It's a good assessment because if you can't concentrate on being vigilant for 30 minutes, being in charge of a train might not be a good idea! When your eyes lose focus, move closer to or further away from the screen. Also, surprisingly, the colour changes aren't random but pre-programmed. Therefore if one person starts their test, another starts two seconds later and another starts two seconds later, you will hear the first person press their button, then about two seconds later the next person, and another two seconds later the next person.


We were then asked to wait in the waiting room again while the results were generated.


Finally, we were congratulated for passing the tests and advised about the next procedures in the application process. We were also given some basic pieces of advice for the DMI.


Hope that this is helpful. Feel free to ask any further questions!



Did you have any MMI interview on the day?
 

Chris McKenna

New Member
Joined
13 Aug 2019
Messages
2
Could someone help me:

I sat stage 1 driver assessments with WMTrains and passed all except GB to enhanced standard. However the OPC have confirmed I passed the GB at the national standard. Which TOCs currently accept national standards...?
 

Stigy

Established Member
Joined
6 Nov 2009
Messages
4,879
Could someone help me:

I sat stage 1 driver assessments with WMTrains and passed all except GB to enhanced standard. However the OPC have confirmed I passed the GB at the national standard. Which TOCs currently accept national standards...?
GWR, SWR and DB Cargo do....the first two might not be too helpful to you admittedly.
 
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