GWR Class 800

[father_jack]

Plenty 5 car shortforms expected today after a fire alarm at Stoke Gifford Hitachi shed during the night.

 

[59CosG95]

Plenty 5 car shortforms expected today after a fire alarm at Stoke Gifford Hitachi shed during the night.

Oh bloody 'ell. I can foresee a long day for GWR...

 

[158820]

Plenty 5 car shortforms expected today after a fire alarm at Stoke Gifford Hitachi shed during the night.

Currently no IET short forms showing on journeycheck.

 

[JN114]

Currently no IET short forms showing on journeycheck.

Which relies on those who update journeycheck to do so. With the significant disruptive fallout I expect posting short formations to be low on the priority list.

 

[PHILIPE]

Currently no IET short forms showing on journeycheck.

Nothing unusual. In fact, ATW (at the time) even deleted the Formation Section itself from their Journey Check saying that the resources were not available to provide the information. TFW haven't changed anything.

 

[158820]

Which relies on those who update journeycheck to do so. With the significant disruptive fallout I expect posting short formations to be low on the priority list.

Disappointing shows a lack of resources in control functions.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Disappointing shows a lack of resources in control functions.

In a sensible IT world, changing the diagrams would automatically update the PIS and JourneyCheck.

 

[JN114]

Disappointing shows a lack of resources in control functions.

Perhaps, but given control is an almost entirely reactive resource it’s difficult to justify an increase in manpower. As it is when there isn’t disruption there’s already a fair number of very highly paid people sitting around with nothing to do.

If there were ways of automating the process it would probably make things easier, but there isn’t that I can see. The CIS already takes the number of coaches and first class position from the stock allocation software; but it’s “dumb” in that respect. It only announces/displays “this train is formed of X coaches” - it makes no mention of how many it should be - the difference between that and actually advertising short formations is there is no way of distinguishing what is uncovered and what is not yet allocated. I’m sure some very clever people are looking at ways of improving it; but until then it’s a manual process and like all manual processes it is subject to their being sufficient resources to carry them out.

 

[SeaKing]

In Taunton earlier 0920 Padd & 0944 Penzance re both 10 cars.

 

[TractiveEffort]

BS EN 13272:2012
Railway applications. Electrical lighting for rolling stock in public transport systems.
Riveting read, as always with BS EN .

• At least 150 lux in seating areas without a reading light
• At least 100 lux in areas with a reading light

Unchanged from the previous 2001 incarnation

The noticeable change is from:

to

i.e. 'cooler' (higher K) colour temperatures are now permitted

Yes, my typo, meant 2011/2012 for the BS EN regs, the EU didn’t have too much influence on BS years ago. Shame it’s £130 to have a look at the regs, although as you say, hardly riveting reading. I did have a look through to see if there was a contingency for having a tube out or similar, but couldn’t see anything, so I can only assume the type testing is done as it says, with a fully fitted, but unoccupied carriage, with all the lights working.

 

[TractiveEffort]

Perhaps, but given control is an almost entirely reactive resource it’s difficult to justify an increase in manpower. As it is when there isn’t disruption there’s already a fair number of very highly paid people sitting around with nothing to do.

If there were ways of automating the process it would probably make things easier, but there isn’t that I can see. The CIS already takes the number of coaches and first class position from the stock allocation software; but it’s “dumb” in that respect. It only announces/displays “this train is formed of X coaches” - it makes no mention of how many it should be - the difference between that and actually advertising short formations is there is no way of distinguishing what is uncovered and what is not yet allocated. I’m sure some very clever people are looking at ways of improving it; but until then it’s a manual process and like all manual processes it is subject to their being sufficient resources to carry them out.

The IT systems are so different, it takes ages to make them talk to each other, I can recall when GWR was still on Windows 97 and everyone else was on XP and had been for years, that was because it took ages to get the ancient old DOS based systems working in XP, they had to do some sort of mixed system where the bit that open RAVERS etc had Windows 97 characteristics.

Until someone comes up with a fully integrated system that can get accepted, expect time and money to be the stumbling block to systems failing to talk to each other.

 

[td97]

I did have a look through to see if there was a contingency for having a tube out or similar, but couldn’t see anything

The lighting in the first place is factored up to meet the standard even in the event of minor degradation

Ageing and degradation of the system shall be allowed for in the design by multiplying the rated illuminances as determined by calculation with a factor, which, unless otherwise specified, shall be 1,25. This value is equivalent with the light loss factor 0,8.
These factors take into account the decreasing of the illuminance of the system as a result of ageing and degradation of the lamps, the luminaires and the reflection degree of the surfaces. Hence, the illuminance shall be subject to regular inspection.
Maintenance of the system is required if the light loss factor drops below 0,8.

I can only assume the type testing is done as it says, with a fully fitted, but unoccupied carriage, with all the lights working.

Correct

f) the measurements shall be performed in a vehicle which is clean and fully equipped but unoccupied.

Shame it’s £130

Not sure who would buy them at that price, but I get unlimited access to them all through my company anyway.

 

[voyagerdude220]

20:29 Swansea to London Paddington listed on journey check as being formed 5 V 10, with GWR asking passengers just to use the front five carriages due to a shortage of train crew- so I gather it's still a double set.

 

[PHILIPE]

20:29 Swansea to London Paddington listed on journey check as being formed 5 V 10, with GWR asking passengers just to use the front five carriages due to a shortage of train crew- so I gather it's still a double set.

Would be short of Train Manager/Responsible person to crew both sets.

 

[SteveM70]

First experience of one of these today.

I can’t believe, even having read so much about them, just how bloody uncomfortable the seats are.

But whether by luck or design, they may have fixed one of the bugbears of travelling with a bike - my seat reservation was in the carriage with the bike storage not at the other end of the train (like LNER)

 

[Bletchleyite]

So, regarding the seats...

I'm on an 800 with the fabric seats. The headrests are pushing into the back of my shoulders, and I can feel the supporting bar under my backside, it's like sitting on a fence. Nasty.

Earlier on, I was on another one which had the moquette seats. The deeper grey and pattern made the interior feel a lot homelier, and the cushions appeared to be a slightly different shape and notably less uncomfortable (though I'd still prefer an ironing board). Are they actually different cushions, or have the older ones just collapsed already? They still need a bit of wood/sheet steel under the cushion to avoid you feeling the support at all, though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A couple more things.

The lighting is "OK" (very similar to a Class 350/2, which is a bit "whiter" than 350/1), but doesn't have any ambiance at all. It's a shame they couldn't have been more clever with it.

The aircon is so loud it feels like I've got an engine running under the coach despite being in an end coach without one. It's an engine type noise, not the "white noise" Class 350s have.

Flickery LED displays very annoying and showing pointless information, e.g. to change at Swindon for Stroud...which we just came from!

Edit: I now have a *very* numb backside. These really must be the worst seats on the network. A 350/2 would be better. Oh, and my ears are ringing with the racket from the aircon, it's making more noise than the engine on a Class 150. Quite a lot of wind noise too.

 

[superalbs]

The lighting is "OK" (very similar to a Class 350/2, which is a bit "whiter" than 350/1), but doesn't have any ambiance at all. It's a shame they couldn't have been more clever with it.

The DB ICE 4 train I was on had amazing lighting! It can have the colour changed depending on the time of day and mood. Mine had a cosy warm yellow for the overall carriage body, with more concentrated white light to highlight the seats. Worked extremely well, and made for a lovely ambience!

Sadly we have chosen to make our trains the world's brightest places, a shame.

I have attached some photos of what I mean.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I like it.

No ambiance in this Class 800. Fortunately we are just arriving, I can't feel my backside any more.

 

[Richard Scott]

Agree the ICE trains are really are the benchmark for creating a decent ambience in a train. The 800 is just too sterile; they aren't a bad train per se just let down by some lack of thought, which could've been easily rectified.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agree the ICE trains are really are the benchmark for creating a decent ambience in a train. The 800 is just too sterile; they aren't a bad train per se just let down by some lack of thought, which could've been easily rectified.

Agreed.

FWIW I am now on a 350/2 (yes, 3+2 seating) and it is more comfortable than the original 800 seat (the moquette one probably wins) and the Aircon is less noisy.

FWIW the 350 cushions have the same bar support but there's a chunk of plastic under the cushion which spreads the force out so you dont feel it.

 

[Ethano92]

The lighting is "OK" (very similar to a Class 350/2, which is a bit "whiter" than 350/1), but doesn't have any ambiance at all. It's a shame they couldn't have been more clever with it.

Even the 345s which let's bear in mind is a metro train have a nicer ambience than the 800s. Despite similarly hard seats I do enjoy traveling on the 345s especially when it's dark out as the lights facing upwards do help the ambience a lot, could've easily been done on the 800s.

Although harshly bright I still do prefer the warmish lighting of the IETs compared to HSTs but there's still a lot that could be improved.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, it absolutely is better than the HST lighting - I struggle to think of anything worse.

Other than luggage space the GWR Electrostar interior is superior in every way.

 

[deltic08]

I like it.

No ambiance in this Class 800. Fortunately we are just arriving, I can't feel my backside any more.

Why, has someone cut off your hands?

 

[deltic08]

Agree the ICE trains are really are the benchmark for creating a decent ambience in a train. The 800 is just too sterile; they aren't a bad train per se just let down by some lack of thought, which could've been easily rectified.

Do you think it has anything to do with being designed in Japan and not Europe?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do you think it has anything to do with being designed in Japan and not Europe?

The interior is DfT spec so I doubt it.

 

[jimm]

Do you think it has anything to do with being designed in Japan and not Europe?

The interiors were developed by DCA Design International, who are based in Warwick.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The interiors were developed by DCA Design International, who are based in Warwick.

And in any case the Javelin EMUs, which are basically the same thing, have a much nicer interior, looking very similar to the 350/1.

 

[Grumbler]

First experience of one of these today.

I can’t believe, even having read so much about them, just how bloody uncomfortable the seats are.

But whether by luck or design, they may have fixed one of the bugbears of travelling with a bike - my seat reservation was in the carriage with the bike storage not at the other end of the train (like LNER)

Seems there is an opportunity to sell cushions at stations along the route.

 

[TEW]

The 0541 Penzance to London Paddington was a 10-car 802 throughout this morning, I thought that 10-car sets were not able to stable overnight at Penzance? Has this been a 10 car from Penzance regularly?