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West Lothian buses

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overthewater

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But they'll be Midland Bluebird Limited assets rather than First Scotland East Limited and presumably those ones are being released from schools work i.e. near end of life fleet.

Yes there are two accounts however the company is treated as once with the managers.

West Lothian council ploughed millions ,yes millions into the 3 park and rides on the A899 and it's been a complete white elephant ,in all honesty I do not see them funding anything again ,however if a bus company wished to take on such a venture i would imagine they would have no issues granting permission.

That because the 3 white elephants only had 30 spaces each, had no direct access from the Fastlink, and worse still at the time had very poor service at time 2 bus an hour. Deer park would have been better for 250 spaces.
 
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TheGrandWazoo

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So no "tongue in cheek" comments allowed ? Unless.....

There's no issue with tongue in cheek comments (like my one to Surreyman yesterday) - clearly wasn't fact and was taken in the way in which it was intended :D

There is a difference between comments like that and well founded opinion, and the character assassinations and partisan/blinkered opinions that have also been a feature at times (and have attracted the attentions of the mods).
 

Swanny200

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West Lothian council ploughed millions ,yes millions into the 3 park and rides on the A899 and it's been a complete white elephant ,in all honesty I do not see them funding anything again ,however if a bus company wished to take on such a venture i would imagine they would have no issues granting permission.

That's the thing though, what is the maximum amount of spaces in each of those park and ride facilities, about 15 cars maximum for a very large and constantly expanding new town, one park and ride with about 10 times that amount of spaces would have been better.
 

winston270twm

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Frist Scotland East is only Livingston depot so they cant come from any where other than another opco.

I'm aware FSE only covers Livingston, but your comments aren't clear/correct. Especially in the respect that FSE will only incur additional operating costs, which is not the case. There will be inter group transfer costs associated as well / extra depreciation (as I'm assuming FSE will not be gaining extra life expired stock). Livingston could have simply been reducing Pvrs / withdrawing from marginal routes locally to provide the extra buses "from Elsewhere" needed to up the frequencies.

Yes there are two accounts however the company is treated as once with the managers.

Makes no difference whether managers treat/see it all as one company, it's not. The legal entities are two separate companies with their own assets & depreciation which need to moved from one set of accounts to the other.
 

In Focus

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That because the 3 white elephants only had 30 spaces each, had no direct access from the Fastlink, and worse still at the time had very poor service at time 2 bus an hour. Deer park would have been better for 250 spaces
There has never been a car parked in them ,never mind 30 spaces ,that was 29 too many i can assure you .
 

In Focus

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aware FSE only covers Livingston, but your comments aren't clear/correct. Especially in the respect that FSE will only incur additional operating costs, which is not the case. There will be inter group transfer costs associated as well / extra depreciation (as I'm assuming FSE will not be gaining extra life expired stock). Livingston could have simply been reducing Pvrs / withdrawing from marginal routes locally to provide the extra buses "from Elsewhere" needed to up the frequencies.
So it's ok for Lothian to transfer vehicles to Dean's for LCB and it costs nothing you know no inter company transfer costs / Depreciation etc !! but if First group decides to move vehicles around it's going to cost the earth?
Seems to me both companies are willing to take the costs at this time so I wouldn't worry too much about the inner workings .
 

In Focus

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Your on about the 3 Fast link stops? Ladywell deffo has 30 plus car parking spaces. The rest properly has less.
I never said how many each place had ,I said they were an abject waste on money and I doubt WL council will repeat the PandR idea.
 

In Focus

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Makes no difference whether managers treat/see it all as one company, it's not. The legal entities are two separate companies with their own assets & depreciation which need to moved from one set of accounts to the other
Correct just like Lothian, Lothian country ,east coast etc ,a good accountant is required :)
 

In Focus

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Seems the £15 weekly ticket has been well received by the people in West Lothian ,hopefully First recognise the benefits and extend the offer .
I'd imagine may parents shall be happy at the 7 day £8.50 Child ticket as well .
Some good positive moves from First for passengers .
 

CM

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So it's ok for Lothian to transfer vehicles to Dean's for LCB and it costs nothing you know no inter company transfer costs / Depreciation etc !! but if First group decides to move vehicles around it's going to cost the earth?
Seems to me both companies are willing to take the costs at this time so I wouldn't worry too much about the inner workings .

It'll cost a damn sight more money for First to transfer a vehicle from elsewhere in the country than Lothian send a bus quite literally down the road to Livi from Edinburgh. Fuel costs, driver wages etc etc have to be taken into account.
 

Jordan Adam

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It'll cost a damn sight more money for First to transfer a vehicle from elsewhere in the country than Lothian send a bus quite literally down the road to Livi from Edinburgh. Fuel costs, driver wages etc etc have to be taken into account.

However in fairness in this case people were referring to First moving a bus from the Midland Bluebird Ltd company to the First Scotland East Ltd company.
 

winston270twm

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So it's ok for Lothian to transfer vehicles to Dean's for LCB and it costs nothing you know no inter company transfer costs / Depreciation etc !! but if First group decides to move vehicles around it's going to cost the earth?
Seems to me both companies are willing to take the costs at this time so I wouldn't worry too much about the inner workings .

No, Lothian's costs for the their transfers/fleet additions are included in the £6 million losses you keep quoting, which aren't actually all losses as TGW has stated. Some are assets which can be re-deployed elsewhere, other parts are property which could be sold or rented out should LBC exit from West Lothian in the future.

If its costs nothing to do intergroup transfers, please enlighten us why in the 'Tangible fixed assets' section of both Midland Bluebird Ltd & First Scotland East Ltd latest accounts there is a section under 'cost additions' Intra Group transfers in with values attributed then followed by Depreciation costs Intra Group transfers in ?

No one suggested it would cost the earth for First, you don't put up balanced / like for like arguments and gloss over certain bits.

Correct just like Lothian, Lothian country ,east coast etc ,a good accountant is required :)

No need for a good account, just one that knows which limited company to allocate the costs / sales / assets against - shouldn't be rocket science / need any creativity.
 

winston270twm

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However in fairness in this case people were referring to First moving a bus from the Midland Bluebird Ltd company to the First Scotland East Ltd company.

No one has confirmed where the extra buses for West Lothian are coming from, just that Balfron/Larbet have 12 surplus to requirement soon, but mostly likely near they'll be end of life ex schools buses.
 

livi man

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Think if lcb goes out of west Lothian. It will be hard to find a buyer or someone to rent it .Council waited a while with it empty
 

winston270twm

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First have a pool of buses they move about nothing new there

We're aware, but it costs to move them between First opocos, that is the point being made. And we're not talking the cost to physically drive them to West Lothian.
 

In Focus

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It'll cost a damn sight more money for First to transfer a vehicle from elsewhere in the country than Lothian send a bus quite literally down the road to Livi from Edinburgh. Fuel costs, driver wages etc etc have to be taken into account.
Does it ? Let's see Glasgow to Dean's 20 minutes , longstone to Dean's 20 minutes ,drivers wages 11.50 lcb with enhanced overtime rates, 10 75 first flat rate ,fuel costs bought at source First group multi national ,Lothian city bus company wonder who would get best deal on that......sorry I dont get your point
 

In Focus

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Think if lcb goes out of west Lothian. It will be hard to find a buyer or someone to rent it .Council waited a while with it empty
It's a **** tip ,condemned the other week by ^H+S ,council must have thought they had won the lottery getting rid of it for that amount.
 

Jordan Adam

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There's word that Lothian are increasing drivers rates in WL to £12 Per hour. Also some other interesting stuff i've been informed about but i'll keep that on the hush for now.

Also at a profit point of view allegedly Lothian are yet to make any significant dent in First's revenue, this further goes along with the point made previously that most of Lothian's passengers seem to be "new" bus users who've came from the car or train. Perhaps what's motivating them to go for routes like the X17 and X18 rather than creating new links.
 
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winston270twm

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It was a figure Lothian themselves used in a PR release. I'd imagine it's closer to 10 million now :)

Lothian are "INVESTING" in excess £6 million, the Lothian press release doesn't state "LOST" £6 million - that gem you've added yourself...…

Extract of LCB Press Release:

We are delighted that Lothian Country are establishing a permanent base in West Lothian at the council’s former Fleet depot in Deans, Livingston.

The total value of their investment should exceed £6 million, which shows their long-term commitment to West Lothian.

As for imagining up to £10 million losses now...… ‍*Face Palm*. It costs approx. £100k a year to run a bus with nil passengers, I'll let you do the maths.
 
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Gingerbus1991

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Lothian are "INVESTING" in excess £6 million, the Lothian press release doesn't state "LOST" £6 million - that gem you've added yourself...…

Extract of LCB Press Release:

We are delighted that Lothian Country are establishing a permanent base in West Lothian at the council’s former Fleet depot in Deans, Livingston.

The total value of their investment should exceed £6 million, which shows their long-term commitment to West Lothian.

As for imagining up to £10 million losses now...… ‍*Face Palm*. It costs approx. £100k a year to run a bus with nil passengers, I'll let you do the maths.
So there not taking passengers at all?
 
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