Extinction Rebellion transport disruption from 17/04/2019

[radamfi]

Umm, that sounds a bit like chopping off your leg to save your foot. Isn't one of the points of stopping climate change that we want to keep the World pleasant to live in for human beings in the future.

No, not only is having children bad for the environment, it is also cruel to inflict pain and death on other living things, including humans.

Society has over time considered racism, sexism, homophobia and transphobia unacceptable. Environmental awareness is the next stage in progressiveness, which includes veganism and no longer having children as integral components.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Time to bring back the fast track courts used in the aftermath of the riots a few years ago? Give out some proper punishment rather than slaps on the wrist.

The Prison Service are already under far too much pressure.

 

[infobleep]

I spent an hour this afternoon in a rather uncomfortable bending position while a neurologist attempted to take spinal fluid from my back and she kept saying 'you will tell me if I'm hurting you, won't you?' and I kept replying that I would, knowing that I wouldn't unless I felt it was killing me, because I desperately wanted the results from the procedure: I hadn't the heart to tell her the local anesthetic wasn't working because it never does with me, but luckily I have a high pain threshold, apparently. In the end, she found an appropriate place and concluded by saying it was the longest lumbar puncture procedure she'd ever done, because she'd never had to try so many different spots as her patients would all have cried off well before then. So I'm not going to run up the white flag, hope you're not either!

My pain threshold is a lot lower but my positivity keeps me moving forward with life.

 

[infobleep]

The Prison Service are already under far too much pressure.

Thiz will serve to highlight that problem. So they are help other causes too. Police and probation officers.

 

[Peter C]

Do we know if they are planning to target the Underground / Rail services today? Seen as they didn't get to target the Underground yesterday thanks to the BTP.

-Peter

 

[Peter C]

Rumours that a protestor first tried to superglue themselves to the doors in Canary Wharf Jubilee Line station are sadly untrue...

Oh OK. Wait... do you mean the platform edge doors? Surely not. They're controlled by the arrival / departure of a train, aren't they? So if someone had tried, in a fictional scenario, to glue themselves to the doors, surely they would have been injured.

-Peter

Sorry for the late response.

 

[Ianno87]

No, not only is having children bad for the environment, it is also cruel to inflict pain and death on other living things, including humans.

On the flip side, life is the most wonderful gift to be given in the first place.

Just think how many people never get to experience existing?




Deep stuff this, innit?

 

[radamfi]

On the flip side, life is the most wonderful gift to be given in the first place.

If you torture someone, giving them flowers afterwards doesn't make up for it.

 

[edwin_m]

I have to admit I find it hard to object too much to disrupting taxis - given how harmful all the taxis (and Uber vehicles) are to central London.

Not to mention that the taxi drivers will themselves disrupt London at the drop of a hat if they think they are under threat.

 

[341o2]

So what about the 1200+ coal fired power stations China is going to build?

Once these people go home they will drive their cars, expect goods and services to be delivered and buy their phones reliant on materials dug out the ground by children.

I was going to say much the same. This country is doing its bit with proposed clean air zones, meanwhile the Chinese network will rival the output of the USA if it is commissioned.
Locally, Southampton will stage the annual Naked Bike Ride, a protest against oil dependency, quite apart from getting to the event, tyres, shoes and helmets all rely partially on oil for their manufacture

 

[radamfi]

This country is doing its bit with proposed clean air zones

"Clean air" is about ensuring that people can avoid breathing in toxic chemicals that may shorten their lives, nothing to do with climate change. There may be a climate change benefit if burning oil is replaced by electricity generated by a cleaner method.

 

[NoMorePacers]

"Clean air" is about ensuring that people can avoid breathing in toxic chemicals that may shorten their lives, nothing to do with climate change. There may be a climate change benefit if burning oil is replaced by electricity generated by a cleaner method.

You seem to be pretty deep on the eco depth gauge my friend.

For reference, "Profoundly Deep", which states that "Humans are too great a threat to life on Earth. The species should be phased out" seems to fit this user's views.

 

[Bald Rick]

So what about the 1200+ coal fired power stations China is going to build?
.

It’s around 400 at the highest estimates, rather than 1200, but the point is valid.

Easy jet have ordered 100 electric airliners.

No they haven’t.

I have to admit I find it hard to object too much to disrupting taxis - given how harmful all the taxis (and Uber vehicles) are to central London.

All the taxis aren’t harmful though. Almost 10% of the London black cab fleet is now Zero Emission Capable (ZEC). This time next year it will be 20%.

I agree about Ubers, and other private hire vehicles, but the changes last week mean they now have to pay the congestion charge, as well as the ULEZ charge if their vehicle doesn’t comply. And from January all new PHVs have to be ZEC (and most hybrids, including the Prius don’t make the grade). We will see a reduction in traffic and pollution in London rather swiftly as a result.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

So it appears "The Gospel according to Trump" is somewhat of a heresy....

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If one looks at the desertification of those countries near to the equator that has been happening without any input by the human race over past millennia, what conclusions can be reached about nature's involvement? Global warming seems to ignore the cyclicar phases of how Britain was affected more than once by the southern extension of the ice sheet which saw the area in which I live being under kilometres-thickness of ice.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

On the flip side, life is the most wonderful gift to be given in the first place.

Just think how many people never get to experience existing?

[pedant]Is the answer "none", seeing as if you never get to exist you never actually become a person?[/[edant]

 

[radamfi]

All the taxis aren’t harmful though. Almost 10% of the London black cab fleet is now Zero Emission Capable (ZEC). This time next year it will be 20%.

Even disregarding their emissions, taxis contribute significantly to the congestion in central London, unnecessarily delaying buses, and so their numbers should be drastically cut. London is the *last* place where we need such a high volume of taxis, given that alternatives are so abundant.

 

[OneOffDave]

If one looks at the desertification of those countries near to the equator that has been happening without any input by the human race over past millennia, what conclusions can be reached about nature's involvement? Global warming seems to ignore the cyclicar phases of how Britain was affected more than once by the southern extension of the ice sheet which saw the area in which I live being under kilometres-thickness of ice.

No it doesn't if you read the science properly. The key thing about the current apthropogenic climate change is how fast it's happening. Previous climatic change happened much more slowly, giving species time to adapt by changing migratory patterns or colonising new habitats. This current pace of change prevents that happening. That allied with other man made environmental challenges will drive a massive number of species to extinction with significant ecosystem impacts

 

[Bald Rick]

Even disregarding their emissions, taxis contribute significantly to the congestion in central London, unnecessarily delaying buses, and so their numbers should be drastically cut. London is the *last* place where we need such a high volume of taxis, given that alternatives are so abundant.

Alternatively, buses contribute significantly to congestion in Central London, unnecessarily delaying taxis!

The number of taxis in London, particularly PHVs, will fall over the next few years anyway.

 

[BananaRepublic]

While I don’t disagree that much more needs to be done to reduce the impact of of human activity on the planet’s environment; the cat is now out of the bag with regard to the XR campaign.
Today various spokespersons and supporters are openly talking about what is effectively, taking down Capitalism.
On both Radio 4 and 5 Live’s breakfast and early programs, several activists, supporters and a certain Labour MP, specifically referred to changing “the system” and abandoning “Capitalism”, which they apparently see as the root cause of the problem.

You can’t help but conclude that what is a very real and serious issue, is being hijacked by political elements.
I’m convinced this will result in a further drift to extreme polarisation on yet another issue.
Anyone see a pattern emerging?

 

[bramling]

Not to mention that the taxi drivers will themselves disrupt London at the drop of a hat if they think they are under threat.

Agree with all this. A massive amount of congestion and pollution would be removed at a stroke if there were no taxis in London. Indeed it’s strange this is something considered to be in the “too difficult” box when London is well served with copious accessible buses.

It makes a mockery of the various measures aimed at reducing car use when nothing is done about taxis.

 

[radamfi]

While I don’t disagree that much more needs to be done to reduce the impact of of human activity on the planet’s environment; the cat is now out of the bag with regard to the XR campaign.
Today various spokespersons and supporters are openly talking about what is effectively, taking down Capitalism.
On both Radio 4 and 5 Live’s breakfast and early programs, several activists, supporters and a certain Labour MP, specifically referred to changing “the system” and abandoning “Capitalism”, which they apparently see as the root cause of the problem.

You can’t help but conclude that what is a very real and serious issue, is being hijacked by political elements.
I’m convinced this will result in a further drift to extreme polarisation on yet another issue.
Anyone see a pattern emerging?

There is certainly a correlation between consumer consumption and environmental damage. The FIRE movement has become increasingly popular partly as a way of getting out of the cycle of consumer culture, buying more and more stuff that does not really increase happiness levels in the long run.

 

[BananaRepublic]

There is certainly a correlation between consumer consumption and environmental damage. The FIRE movement has become increasingly popular partly as a way of getting out of the cycle of consumer culture, buying more and more stuff that does not really increase happiness levels in the long run.

There’s a great deal of truth in this, but the solution will inevitably will be a major economic catastrophe for much of the world’s economies, particularly in the Far East, SE Asia and many other parts of the third world.
Whether we like it or not, what many would describe as crazy out of control consumerism, has fuelled massive economic growth and development, which has improved the economic well-being of hundreds of millions of people worldwide and taken more people out of poverty than ever before, in just a few short decades.
How do you undo all of that without causing severe harm?

 

[BananaRepublic]

Someone earlier mentioned over population.

Whenever this is raised on TV or the radio, the people debating the climate and environmental issues ignore it, or change the subject.
It appears to be a total taboo subject.
If pressed, the response is that there’s plenty of space on earth and that it’s the system that is causing the problem.
If only we lived in a more sustainable way.
Talk about head in the sand.

We went to Vietnam last year.
I was surprised to see that the Vietnamese population was estimated to be around 94 million people.
So I looked it up and saw that at the end of the Vietnam war, their population was estimated to be around 45 million.
In just 40 years it has more than doubled and the trend is upwards.
That’s just one small country in a corner of the developing world.
That situation is being replicated all over the planet.

Naturally, there’s a reluctance to delve into these issues, because of a fear of where the discussion could lead, but unless we are totally foolish, we will all have to face the harsh facts sooner or later.
For the sake of everyone on the planet, I don’t think closing down, or suppressing rational debate on the matter is helping at all.

 

[edwin_m]

On the population issue, more population tends to lead to more urban densifiaction, and people who live in urban areas may actually have less environmental impact than those in rural areas (at least in those countries that are advanced enough that most people drive - and assuming the public transport doesn't keep getting disrupted!).

Population of particular countries shoots upwards when they get access to medical care that reduces the number of deaths in childhood. The rate of growth reduces when education and urbanisation advances, family planning becomes possible, there is no need for children to help with agriculture and the fear of infant mortality fades away. At present a lot of countries are in between those two stages so experiencing rapid population growth, but the thinking is that this will stabilise rather than continuing indefinitely.

 

[BananaRepublic]

I believe you’re right in principle Edwin and that’s how the theory goes, but any stabilisation will take time, will not take place evenly across the planet and may not even hold true for some cultures.
In the meantime, population growth is threatening to spiral and consumerism and the industries supporting it, continues to grow.
Putting the brakes on that will be extremely difficult and will meet resistance, particularly in the developing world.
How dare we tell them, or “teach them”.

 

[swt_passenger]

The three arrested for stopping the DLR have been remanded in custody until May 16th, according to reports just now:

Cathy Eastburn, 51, of Gerards Close, Lambeth, Mark Ovland, 35, of Keinton Mandeville, Somerset and Luke Watson, 29, of Manuden, Essex pleaded not guilty with obstructing trains or carriages on the railway at Highbury Corner Magistrates' Court this morning.
They were not granted bail and have been remanded in custody to appear at Blackfriars Crown Court on 16 May.
http://www.cityam.com/276477/three-climate-change-activists-charged-after-dlr-protest

 

[radamfi]

On the population issue, more population tends to lead to more urban densifiaction, and people who live in urban areas may actually have less environmental impact than those in rural areas (at least in those countries that are advanced enough that most people drive - and assuming the public transport doesn't keep getting disrupted!).

I suspect that urbanites have a lower impact, per capita. But that doesn't help if there are vastly more people. For example, without looking at any statistics, I might guess that New Zealand has a higher per capita environmental impact than the UK, as NZ is an even more car-orientated society than Britain. But which country causes more damage overall?

 

[radamfi]

How do you undo all of that without causing severe harm?

We need to shift our world economy to a knowledge based one, instead of one which makes stuff. This is happening gradually anyway.

 

[edwin_m]

I suspect that urbanites have a lower impact, per capita. But that doesn't help if there are vastly more people. For example, without looking at any statistics, I might guess that New Zealand has a higher per capita environmental impact than the UK, as NZ is an even more car-orientated society than Britain. But which country causes more damage overall?

One of the many environmental conundrums for which it seems virtually impossible to obtain any sort of answer.