ATW/Keolis Amey Wales stock shortages

[PHILIPE]

There's a depot in Camarthen?!

Traincrew. Just a stabling point for units

 

[berneyarms]

There's a depot in Camarthen?!

He means a driver/guard depot. Clearly there are railcrew based there.

 

[anamyd]

He means a driver/guard depot. Clearly there are railcrew based there.

Ah yes.

 

[clagmonster]

Maintaining a certain amount of 158 work in the South is also good for keeping Carmarthen and Cardiff depots competent on them - otherwise the only alternative to 175s on Manchester - West Wales services would be 150s, and that isn't exactly ideal.

Do Llanelli also sign 158s and have work on the Mancs? Always thought it a slightly odd place for a depot.

I had a trip to South Wales over the weekend and was surprised at how few 158s I saw. There was just one on Ebbw Vale. None at all in West Wales. Presumably I was just unlucky. What are the five Canton 158s actually booked to do?

 

[PHILIPE]

Do Llanelli also sign 158s and have work on the Mancs? Always thought it a slightly odd place for a depot.

I had a trip to South Wales over the weekend and was surprised at how few 158s I saw. There was just one on Ebbw Vale. None at all in West Wales. Presumably I was just unlucky. What are the five Canton 158s actually booked to do?

There hasn't been a Depot at Llanelli since long before privatisation and a Freight one only at that and long before 158s were ever thought of. Carmarthen is the Depot in West Wales and work to Milford Haven, Pembroke Dock Fishguard Harbour, Llandrindod Wells also, of course, Cardiff and work Manchester services to that point. You won't see 158s in South Wales in any number (less than the number of fingers on your hand to quote a phrase) as they are nearly all working on the Cambrian. I didn't know where you got 5 x 158s allocated to Canton from until I looked at ABRail but they all work as one fleet based at Machynlleth

 

[craigybagel]

Do Llanelli also sign 158s and have work on the Mancs? Always thought it a slightly odd place for a depot.

I had a trip to South Wales over the weekend and was surprised at how few 158s I saw. There was just one on Ebbw Vale. None at all in West Wales. Presumably I was just unlucky. What are the five Canton 158s actually booked to do?

There is no depot at Llanelli. Traincrew from both Cardiff Mainline and Carmarthen depots sometimes swap over there and there is a messroom for PNBs, but no depot

There are no Canton 158s either - they are all allocated to Machynlleth. On a normal day 3 sets work around Cardiff (with the rest of the fleet on Cambrian/North Wales duties) but these are rotated throughout the entire 158 fleet. They used to swap with the northern sets every day (using the 0610 Shrewsbury - Maesteg and 2017 Cardiff - Manchester) but lately those two services have been part of the same diagram, and today in fact that particular diagram is using a 150.

 

[clagmonster]

Thanks for the gen, both. Wales, the south in particular, is not my strong suit.

No idea where I got the idea there was a depot at Llanelli. It has been engrained in my brain for ages. I did think it strange.

I was indeed going of Abrail for the 158s. It seemed a strange little fleet of 5 at Canton - I had just assumed there was insufficient funding to fit them all with ETRMS.

 

[PHILIPE]

Thanks for the gen, both. Wales, the south in particular, is not my strong suit.

No idea where I got the idea there was a depot at Llanelli. It has been engrained in my brain for ages. I did think it strange.

I was indeed going of Abrail for the 158s. It seemed a strange little fleet of 5 at Canton - I had just assumed there was insufficient funding to fit them all with ETRMS.

All the 158s have been fitted with ETRMS and ABRail is not an official document but one run by a volunteer who, unfortunately is giving up.

 

[Jez]

There are 3 158s booked in South Wales. One stabled at Carmarthen, one at Canton and one comes down and goes back the same day. The Carmarthen one goes to Pembroke Dock then Swansea then sits there until the daytime fishguard boat traint then goes back to Cardiff. The Cardiff one does Cheltenham to Maesteg I think and then ends up on the 1604 Cardiff to Fishguard.

 

[article17_gdpr]

150254 has been PRM modified. Sorry if it's already been said.

 

[6Gtraincrew]

254 must be a new one. Also 217 has gone from Arriva train care in Crewe back down to Canton. So I guess that's been finished now too, but not back in service yet.

 

[anamyd]

150254 has been PRM modified. Sorry if it's already been said.

thanks!

 

[Rhydgaled]

Just over 2 weeks to go until the Chester-Liverpool service is due to start... Given it was postponed due to lack of stock at the December 2018 timetable change, have any of the extra trains (230s, 769s, mark 2s or 153s) entered service yet? If not, is the new service likely to be delayed again or is TfW confident that enough of these extra trains will enter service by 19th May in order to release stock for the Liverpool services?

 

[Arriva 175]

Just over 2 weeks to go until the Chester-Liverpool service is due to start... Given it was postponed due to lack of stock at the December 2018 timetable change, have any of the extra trains (230s, 769s, mark 2s or 153s) entered service yet? If not, is the new service likely to be delayed again or is TfW confident that enough of these extra trains will enter service by 19th May in order to release stock for the Liverpool services?

Basically no. The new service will start in the new timetable and the only extra stock at TFW will be a 5 ex GWR Class 153s and 1 Class 37 and coaches (that will spend most of the day sitting idle) and all based in South Wales. There is 1 Class 150 diagram currently spare because of the probs on Bleanau branch but currently a lot of short formings about so if the Halton curve services are successful there is no additional stock.

 

[PHILIPE]

There are 4 diagrams and the timetable tailor made for 769s on Peak Time Rhymneys (starting and terminating at Cardiff Central) to release 150s, which also require release for PRM Mods, and adjustments to Pacers diagrams to free up 150s. There is only 1 x 769 arrived so far and it's status seems to be unknown at the moment. Hence a 37/4 and another one later, together with stock, have been sourced to assist with the shortfall of 769s. We can't really count the Blaenau Ffestiniog 150 as the trains are still in the Timetable and, for the plan to be robust, a diagram has to be identified with it. It just means that there is just one less 150 to allocate on the day.
I can't see the Liverpool service being deferred once again as it would result in too much of an embarrassment especially in view of the publicity given

 

[Jacob Didcote]

Can i just ask, what will run on the VoG line?

 

[tomwills98]

Can i just ask, what will run on the VoG line?

Probably still 150's and pacers whilst they are still here.

 

[ancientsolar]

those 153s from GWR could be really handy after the new Liverpool services start..

We're often already short formed in South Wales.. , the 769 hasn't been anywhere since it arrived.. and the 37 and its stock have been sat there for 2 weeks doing nothing... wondering when we'll get a delivery of another 37 or 2.. and stock

we seem so skimmed, that if we get an early leaf fall this Autumn, we're going to be totally done for.

 

[Cardiff123]

those 153s from GWR could be really handy after the new Liverpool services start..

We're often already short formed in South Wales.. , the 769 hasn't been anywhere since it arrived.. and the 37 and its stock have been sat there for 2 weeks doing nothing... wondering when we'll get a delivery of another 37 or 2.. and stock

we seem so skimmed, that if we get an early leaf fall this Autumn, we're going to be totally done for.

I agree that to observers like us it doesn't look good. We have to hope that 'behind the scenes' it's a different story.
I'm just amazed that under 8 months to go until the PRM deadline that no large scale derogations have been granted to TOCs where it's obvious the deadline can't be met.

 

[krus_aragon]

I'm just amazed that under 8 months to go until the PRM deadline that no large scale derogations have been granted to TOCs where it's obvious the deadline can't be met.

Perhaps such derogations won't be offered until it's clear what will and what won't be completed in time.

I wouldn't expect any news on TfW-related derogations until after the summer.

 

[driver_m]

Don’t suppose they could hire in a Northern or GWR 150 could they? (I know they did in the last days of ATW, but I guess Northerns are all tied up on PRM mods themselves and having their own short forming problems too.

 

[Cambrian359]

Any reason the GWR 153s aren’t in service?

 

[PHILIPE]

Any reason the GWR 153s aren’t in service?

I suspect that the lease doesn't start until the new Timetable. If there is such a thing "between leases"

 

[PHILIPE]

Don’t suppose they could hire in a Northern or GWR 150 could they? (I know they did in the last days of ATW, but I guess Northerns are all tied up on PRM mods themselves and having their own short forming problems too.

Everybody is short of units. GWR are waiting on 769s for the North Down Lines preventing Turbos from being cascaded west and delaying their use on the Cardiff to Portsmouth route.

 

[Belperpete]

On my trip onto the Cambrian last week, instead of 4 cars (2x158) from Birmingham International, dividing at Machynlleth, it was a 2-car class 150 shuttle between International and Shrewsbury, where passengers swapped trains to and from another 2-car Shrewsbury-Aberystwyth shuttle, with passengers for the Coast having to change yet again at Mach. The service is normally full and standing with 2x158 - the poor 150 was rammed before it left New Street, with people left behind at subsequent stations, significant station delays due to the overcrowding, the guard unable to get through the train, inaudible announcements so people were unaware the train was only going as far as Shrewsbury, and "every man for himself" at Shrewsbury with passengers desperately trying to swap between two short-formed trains. Unfortunately, this was not an isolated incident - something similar has happened on ALL my previous trips to and from the Cambrian this year, although this last trip was far and away the worst (previously the Shrewsbury shuttle has been something with slightly more capacity than a 150).

If TfW don't currently have enough stock to even run their existing services, I don't understand how on earth they are going to run anything more, such as the Chester - Liverpools in only two weeks' time. Something surely has to give. I am concerned that they will rob other services (such as the Cambrian) in order to provide the stock for these new services, to avoid the bad headlines if they fail to deliver these new services.

 

[krus_aragon]

If TfW don't currently have enough stock to even run their existing services, I don't understand how on earth they are going to run anything more, such as the Chester - Liverpools in only two weeks' time. Something surely has to give. I am concerned that they will rob other services (such as the Cambrian) in order to provide the stock for these new services, to avoid the bad headlines if they fail to deliver these new services.

It could be the case that TfW have been shoving as many units as possible into the PRM workshop before the timetable change, and that they'll send fewer units off on PRM work when the Halton service starts. (And send more again as and when the other stock arrives.)

On the other hand, maybe not...

 

[Dai Corner]

It could be the case that TfW have been shoving as many units as possible into the PRM workshop before the timetable change, and that they'll send fewer units off on PRM work when the Halton service starts. (And send more again as and when the other stock arrives.)

On the other hand, maybe not...

Just wait until Cardiff commuters packed into short-formed Pacers hear that TfW are running nearly empty trains between Chester and Liverpool...

 

[berneyarms]

Just wait until Cardiff commuters packed into short-formed Pacers hear that TfW are running nearly empty trains between Chester and Liverpool...

What makes you think they will be “nearly empty”?

 

[Dai Corner]

What makes you think they will be “nearly empty”?

Day one will be full of enthusiasts, journalists and dignitaries I'm sure, but I'm assuming it will take a while to build up passenger numbers.

 

[berneyarms]

Day one will be full of enthusiasts, journalists and dignitaries I'm sure, but I'm assuming it will take a while to build up passenger numbers.

Indeed but there’s a difference between “nearly empty” and “building up numbers”.

You’re effectively damning the service before it even starts which is to my mind rather unfair.

I very much doubt that this service will be “nearly empty” at all.