Rail franchise declared not fit for purpose

[steve099]

I'm nicking Transport Briefing's headline which refers to Arriva Trains Wales. Although I'm sure any subscriber to the site won't want nor be allowed to post the article here, might they be able to say what's going on?

There's news surfacing about a £5bn wish list / plan for Wales' railway network but so far, I've seen no evidence that the wonderful Arriva Trains Wales might be stripped of its franchise. This headline seems to suggest that is likely.

Anyone know anything about this?

 

[merlodlliw]

I'm nicking Transport Briefing's headline which refers to Arriva Trains Wales. Although I'm sure any subscriber to the site won't want nor be allowed to post the article here, might they be able to say what's going on?

There's news surfacing about a £5bn wish list / plan for Wales' railway network but so far, I've seen no evidence that the wonderful Arriva Trains Wales might be stripped of its franchise. This headline seems to suggest that is likely.

Anyone know anything about this?

|I dont think ATW will loose too much sleep, they have friends in very high places, it is unfortunate the Minister,who is overall control in Wales,lets them off the hook far too easily.Following some of the comments made by the ATW CEO," we wont spend a penny of our money" I would agree they are unfit for purpose,alas another 8 years to suffer them,

 

[Oliver]

|I dont think ATW will loose too much sleep, they have friends in very high places, it is unfortunate the Minister,who is overall control in Wales,lets them off the hook far too easily.Following some of the comments made by the ATW CEO," we wont spend a penny of our money" I would agree they are unfit for purpose,alas another 8 years to suffer them,

Meanwhile the Telegraph can't make up its mind about First Group. Last week Andrew Gilligan said they were the worst company in Britain.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/...mpany-in-Britain-That-sounds-about-right.html

and today Questor recommends the shares:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...oup-still-a-buy-despite-passenger-misery.html

 

[Oswyntail]

Meanwhile the Telegraph can't make up its mind about First Group. Last week Andrew Gilligan said they were the worst company in Britain.....
and today Questor recommends the shares:
....

Quite consistent - the drift of both articles is that they screw everyone to get the biggest dividend for shareholders. One form of capitalism, but not one that works in the long run.

 

[merlodlliw]

Filed 25/01/10

Arriva Trains Wales: committee says Wales was "sold a pup" by Department for Transport

Arriva Trains Wales, the rail franchise responsible for operating most trains in Wales, has been described as "not fit for purpose" by the National Assembly for Wales' Enterprise and Learning Committee.

Rest of story removed, full story seen at: http://www.transportbriefing.co.uk/news/story?id=6530

the above sent by a friend.

 

[Max]

Threads merged.

 

[merlodlliw]

Filed 25/01/10

Arriva Trains Wales: committee says Wales was "sold a pup" by Department for Transport

Arriva Trains Wales, the rail franchise responsible for operating most trains in Wales, has been described as "not fit for purpose" by the National Assembly for Wales' Enterprise and Learning Committee.

Rest of story removed, full story seen at: http://www.transportbriefing.co.uk/news/story?id=6530

Appreciate the copyright of the publication transport briefing, however here is a link to the WAG committee,this is within the public domain with no copyright restrictions whatsoever,some of the railway discussions makes interesting reading. hope this helps.

http://www.assemblywales.org/bus-ho...els-home/bus-committees-third-els-agendas.htm

the meetings were held 21st Jan 10

M

 

[MrC]

Arriva Trains Wales, the rail franchise responsible for operating most trains in Wales, has been described as "not fit for purpose" by the National Assembly for Wales' Enterprise and Learning Committee.

Although they do seem to be talking about the franchise not the franchisee.

 

[Greenback]

Agreed. It is clear in the document that it's the franchise that is being termed unfit for purpose. The WAg does not have any power to strip ATW of the franchise, and the report has been written by a WAG committee.

I've also noticed a lot of typo's near the end of the document eg 'four trains per day to Cardiff Airport' and the description of Swanline stations as being built int he 1970's not the 1990's...at least I assume they are typo's!

 

[Ivo]

...And this is why Worst Arrival should never be allowed to touch any franchise again. One half is "Britain's Worst Company", the other [in my view], Britain's most selfish company. At least Stagecoach put in half-decent effort. But what I worry about is that without Worst Arrival or National Excess around, we may end up short of home-based corporations with any interest in our rail network.

 

[tbtc]

So, no evidence that Arriva have done anything wrong, just complaints from powerless politicians (presumably so they can act blameless whilst demanding even greater powers for themselves)...

Since Arriva have introduced the clockface timetable and improved service across the Principality whilst the WAG have introduced a bizarre one a day train designed not to stop at English stations, I think I know who are better at running Welsh trains!

 

[robert2000]

ATW have got to go.

Crap trains
Crap timetables

says it all really

 

[A60K]

ATW have got to go.

Crap trains
Crap timetables

says it all really

Crap reasoning...

ATW operates the service specified by the DfT with the rolling stock specified by the DfT.


That is the issue to be addressed: the specification. If you think that a different franchise holder would have done anything much different to the base spec you're mistaken.

 

[robert2000]

ATW are based on a 0% growth, thats why no1 wants them to win the next franchise.

 

[tbtc]

ATW are based on a 0% growth, thats why no1 wants them to win the next franchise.

Surely that's the fault of the people who gave them the franchise?

The timetables are generally a lot better and a lot simpler than before - the clockface services are a vast improvement on what went before. ATW are treading a balance between running the busier services (Valley Lines etc) and maintaining the social services in rural areas.

If you don't like the timetables, then what else would you do instead?

 

[Greenback]

The timetables have to be a compromise - it's impossible to create a timetable that will please everyone! Personally, I dislike the departure times from Swansea westwards - usually xx00 to Carmarthen/Milford Haven and alternate hours xx05 to Pemborke Dock. In the other direction the trains are much better timed! But it's not possible to spread them out any better due to the single line through Gowerton, and having to path the longer distance services through other parts of the network. There are also issues about connections at various places, so I accept that the timetable can;t be created around my personal wishes, or even what is best for that particular traffic flow! But the main point is that the constraints would be the same whether it was ATW or First or Virgin planning the timetable!

 

[Ivo]

In my view, ATW are good only for the Bubble. And then only when it runs :roll:

 

[steve099]

Crap reasoning...

ATW operates the service specified by the DfT with the rolling stock specified by the DfT.

One word: refurbishment. While the 150/3s(?) appear to have been recently refurbished and are OK (although I can't say I'd want to commute on them) and the 175s are newer trains, their 158s are very unpleasant. I've no experience of South Wales services so can't comment there.

 

[Fincra5]

So, no evidence that Arriva have done anything wrong, just complaints from powerless politicians (presumably so they can act blameless whilst demanding even greater powers for themselves)...

Since Arriva have introduced the clockface timetable and improved service across the Principality whilst the WAG have introduced a bizarre one a day train designed not to stop at English stations, I think I know who are better at running Welsh trains!

Simply an awful TOC. Whenever i used to travel on the cambrian line before the ERTMS trail was underway, my train from whelspool was alway late, which ment i missed my VT connection and New Street.

On the 1st day of half term for wales (last year), when loads of people head to Brimingham Int, Arriva run a 6car service along the cambrian line, ONLY as far as shewbury, where it became 2car. The majority of the train packed into these 2 cars. SO it was a horrible cramped journey from Shewbury. And because it took ages for people to get on an off i yet again missed my VT connection.

In my opinion Arriva should never have been allowed to win the XC franchise, based on the appaling ATW service.

I have to say from experience Govia are the best parent company, and Stagecoach and Virgin aren't bad either.

 

[Ivo]

You forgot to mention ze Germans. Chiltern are the best TOC in the country my view.

And, frankly, Arriva in general are [insert swear here].
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Oh, and also, the first time I went to Cardiff, I climbed the stairs at Newport thinking, "ATW aren't too bad, supposedly. I'll give them one chance."
...Seconds later: "We are sorry to announce that the ATW service to Bridgend is delayed by approximately 29 minutes."
When it finally arrived, it was jammed full. So I waited for the following Coradia.

The next time, First messed me around, so I barely got to Newport in time...
...The ATW 158 had broken down away :roll:

 

[robert2000]

rolling stock is a big issue in wales.

 

[merlodlliw]

Just to clear up a couple of things.

1.Within a few weeks of the ATW clockface timetable starting, ATW sacked the
CEO.

2.No matter what may be said about DFT giving ATW the franchise,which in my opinion was too chummy, now WAGs Minister does have a major say in what goes on, although he appears very weak. However it is refreshing to have the Welsh railways discussed in public.

3.Any PLC taking on a contract without growth, in the real world would go
bust.

4.Heres another WAG £800K a year subsidy about to hit the buffers
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/nor...cardiff-air-link-under-threat-55578-25683806/

 

[Oliver]

Just to clear up a couple of things.


4.Heres another WAG £800K a year subsidy about to hit the buffers
http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/nor...cardiff-air-link-under-threat-55578-25683806/

If it's "profitable" why does it need £800K subsidy? 30,000 over two years equals 15 passengers per trip, and a subsidy of £50 per person per trip. It doesn't seem like a very good way of spending taxpayers' money.

 

[merlodlliw]

If it's "profitable" why does it need £800K subsidy? 30,000 over two years equals 15 passengers per trip, and a subsidy of £50 per person per trip. It doesn't seem like a very good way of spending taxpayers' money.

Of course, we ask why subsidise? because no one would take it on otherwise.

WAG AIR was the Ministers toy & invention for his Anglesey cronies, as was
the Minister rushing in with Gerald the Wag Express, now Ieuan Wyn Jones
A.M. for Yns Mon is facing a bit of flack,& rightly so. It took a lot of questioning to get the £3m subsidy for the pair out in the open.
As the local rag states,if the airline now about to go bust was the only bidder for the new contract,with a bigger subsidy,Ieuan will have egg on his face,one as to ask why no other
interest from other airlines, suppose because its Anglesey to Cardiff, now Hawarden would be a better option, that is if anyone wants to go, at least a million people live in North East Wales.
OK Air is not rail, but its out of the same piggy bank (ours).
Roll on Gerald mark 2, Crewe could do with an extra service from Cardiff.

My opinion, but as a Welsh taxpayer Im getting a tad fed up.

 

[LMS6202]

Arriva is the most tight fisted transport company around. Not only where trains are concerned but the bus side is crap too. Buses that have engines racing nine to the dozen toddling along at 20mph. They pay their staff a pittance for very long hours.

 

[merlodlliw]

Arriva is the most tight fisted transport company around. Not only where trains are concerned but the bus side is crap too. Buses that have engines racing nine to the dozen toddling along at 20mph. They pay their staff a pittance for very long hours.

The pay sound likes any PLC in the world of today, however in Wrexham as you mention the same PLCs buses, a brand new fleet of single deckers as been
bought for them, to give a 10 minute interval timetable between Wrexham
and Chester station, these are very nice vehicles, whereas the 158s are filthy
on the same town to town run.

 

[HSTfan!!!]

They pay their staff a pittance for very long hours.

Amen It's a bit sad when you look at FGW's pay figures. If ATW would hurry up with harmonisation talks it would be a bonus.

 

[tsubaki]

If it's "profitable" why does it need £800K subsidy? 30,000 over two years equals 15 passengers per trip, and a subsidy of £50 per person per trip. It doesn't seem like a very good way of spending taxpayers' money.

I agree entirely with this.

As Welsh as I am, it remains a fact of life that people do not (and to be honest, have never) moved between North and South Wales in sufficient numbers to justify a dedicated direct service. Gerald should be stopped, and the money invested in other rail activity, ideally in the North East (though again I am biased), where as merlodlliw notes we have a large (and growing) population that is already abysmally served by the railway.

 

[krus_aragon]

2.No matter what may be said about DFT giving ATW the franchise,which in my opinion was too chummy, now WAGs Minister does have a major say in what goes on, although he appears very weak.

He is weak; all he can do is negociate changes and ammendments to the franchise contract, and Arriva can chose to agree or disagree to his proposals. Come 2015-17, when the new franchise is put to tender, then there'll be the opportunity for the Minister to lay down the law.

 

[merlodlliw]

He is weak; all he can do is negociate changes and ammendments to the franchise contract, and Arriva can chose to agree or disagree to his proposals. Come 2015-17, when the new franchise is put to tender, then there'll be the opportunity for the Minister to lay down the law.

It is the general view ATW walk all over the Minister, the public outbursts
by very senior ATW staff should have been sorted.

At the time of the next round,we will have new Ministers and hopefully a
toc that cares unlike this one who wont spend a penny, unless its to
spoil success of others.

my opinion