SWR new services

[43096]

Timetabling for the long term plan starts 55 weeks out with the Notice of Significant change the man firmed up 40 weeks out; you have to take the best estimation of the engineers at the time over availability of rolling stock and their view is 442s would be ready.

Given that virtually every rolling stock project runs late - often significantly so - I would be taking the best estimation of the engineers with more of a handful than a pinch of salt. Take their estimate and add 6 months would be a minimum starting point.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Given that virtually every rolling stock project runs late - often significantly so - I would be taking the best estimation of the engineers with more of a handful than a pinch of salt. Take their estimate and add 6 months would be a minimum starting point.

Which bearing in mind 442s should have been introduced in September 2018 that 6 months contingency was added for the May 2019 timetable.

 

[43096]

Which bearing in mind 442s should have been introduced in September 2018 that 6 months contingency was added for the May 2019 timetable.

Hence my use of the word "minimum"!

SWR were really rather fortunate that DfT pulled the plug on the December timetable change as there was clearly no chance of SWR being ready.

 

[infobleep]

Also not quite sure where the view everything is slowed down? Yes 1P16 has got 3 minutes slower than today due to an exchange of paths into Waterloo from Surbiton partially to facilitiate the additional 06.40 from Havant. The 06.48 from Haslemere now becomes the headline journey time of 52 minutes, comparable with the current 07.03 at 51 minutes.

Doing some quick sums the average journey time of all trains arriving in Waterloo before 10.00 remains at an average of 59 minutes.

Departures from Haslemere
05.21 (was 05.26) 69m up from 63m
05.57 new service 54m
06.02 (was 06.00) 66m down from 68m
06.16 56m down from 57m
06.29 (was 06.30) 65m down from 66m
06.48 (was 06.47) 52m down from 58m
07.02 (was 07.03) 54m up from 51m
07.08 new service 59m
07.12 (was 07.10) 58m down from 60m
07.26 58m as now
07.35 56m down from 57m
07.39 62m as now
08.01 (was 08.00) 53m down from 54m
08.08 (was 08.04) 67m down from 69m
08.32 58m down from 59m
08.39 65m up from 64m
09.02 53m as now

As you can see only 3 services have had the journey time extended, 9 services have had the journey time reduced. I don’t think that really counts as “adding a few minutes to most peak services”....

How interesting. The 05:21 is showing on the summery page of Real Time Trains Web Site, along with a 05:20 arrival time. However, when I go into the service to see more information it says it's the 05:25 arrival in the working timetable and it departs 05:26.

Is there a mistake in the data Real Time Trains use or is the train really timetabled to leave 4 minutes after they tell passengers it is do leave? I know Waterloo to Basingstoke trains are timetabled to depart Clapham Junction a minute after the passenger timetable says they will depart.

Overview of services, which includes the 05:21 departure.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/HSL/2019/05/20/0435?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

Actually service and timing points, which shows 05:26 departure.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W36550/2019/05/20/advanced

Refurb programme has been suspended to help provide the stock.

Have they also paused the WiFi upgrade? That stopped working. Not sure why but it needs an upgrade and they were in the process of applying this to each train.

They intend to run all other services.

Believe they have paused the Desiro refurbishment therefore that releases a 9 car and an 8 car

I’m guessing that they have also switched diagrams to put into use a set that would otherwise stay at Clapham inter-peak.

That gives you the cover for the three diagrams except for the two trains advertised as cancelled.

Where have any been advertised as cancelled? I saw a press release but it didn't state which services would be cancelled.

 

[Antman]

Does anyone know if 1A14 (0612 Alton to Waterloo) is now scheduled to be just eight coaches (used to be twelve) ?

First day of new timetable and it is utterly rammed by Brookwood as it’s just eight.....

 

[infobleep]

Does anyone know if 1A14 (0612 Alton to Waterloo) is now scheduled to be just eight coaches (used to be twelve) ?

First day of new timetable and it is utterly rammed by Brookwood as it’s just eight.....

Did you look on journey check?
https://www.journeycheck.com/swr/?

I think it will have already arrived into Waterloo so I cannot see it listed. However I was told on Twetter that short formations are reported by guards so unless they report it, it won't be listed.

I see there is a defective bit of track at Wimbledon. They were going to fix it overnight but this appears not to have been completed, for whatever reasons, so some trains are being cancelled or started short, in addition to those not running.

Incidentally do South West Trains get fined for the three trains are not running? I mean those planned not to run last week.

I'm aware short formations would incur a cost.

It will be interesting with the payment renegotiation talks. Network Rail were late, in regards to timetable issues but then so is the 442 rolling stock. So either side would have caused delays, although the greater delay is clearly the timetable.

 

[pompeyfan]

First day of the new timetable and several peak hour services have been cancelled or turned short due to an emergency 20mph speed restriction over a set of points at Wimbledon. I was led to believe that PWAY works took place last night however, so not entirely sure what’s going on.

 

[SWT_USER]

A couple of observations from the Windsor side.

-The new 07:02 Windsor to Waterloo via Brentford is welcome, however appears to be only 5 coaches. It wasn't listed as a short form on journey check so I assume it is diagrammed for 5.

-There is an 8.455 diagram on a Windsor circuit (the 06.58 from Waterloo) today. Again nothing listed on journey check to indicate a short form so is this also permanent?

 

[swt_passenger]

Where have any been advertised as cancelled? I saw a press release but it didn't state which services would be cancelled.

I think it (the press release) might have been altered. The two removed services were stated earlier, but they are still explained in the 442 thread as the 0628 Southampton Parkway to Waterloo and the 1848 Waterloo to Poole new services. Neither on your route?

 

[infobleep]

First day of the new timetable and several peak hour services have been cancelled or turned short due to an emergency 20mph speed restriction over a set of points at Wimbledon. I was led to believe that PWAY works took place last night however, so not entirely sure what’s going on.

I read they were due to take place on Monday, so last night.

The quote on Journey Check is:

Unfortunately, due to the length of time needed for the repair, Network Rail can only complete this work overnight on Monday.

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/221401.aspx

I don't know if that is the same quote as last night. Technically the last train departs after midnight, which from now onwards would be Tuesday morning but by using overnight on Monday, maybe people take that to mean Tuesday morning not the Monday morning just gone.

Incidentally when they talk about alternative services, they never mention their own, only those of other companies. For example passengers can use London buses between Surbiton and Central London but no mention of being allowed to use the line from Kingston to London. Maybe tickets from Surbiton are valid from Kingston anyway so it's irrelevant.

I see at least one slow train was cancelled due to a defective track, a Waterloo to Hampton Court service and the return working was also cancelled, this time due to a train default. It's times like this when they could do with being able to record multiple problems against the same service. I guess people would still say they just make it up even if they did that.

When your trying to promote a fantatsic new timetable, this isn't the best day to have such problems.

 

[pompeyfan]

I read they were due to take place on Monday, so last night.

The quote on Journey Check is:

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/221401.aspx

I don't know if that is the same quote as last night. Technically the last train departs after midnight, which from now onwards would be Tuesday morning but by using overnight on Monday, maybe people take that to mean Tuesday morning not the Monday morning just gone.

Incidentally when they talk about alternative services, they never mention their own, only those of other companies. For example passengers can use London buses between Surbiton and Central London but no mention of being allowed to use the line from Kingston to London. Maybe tickets from Surbiton are valid from Kingston anyway so it's irrelevant.

What I read mentioned that plain lining and TSR removal had been completed overnight last night. Unless of course it was a 2 night job. Usually when people mention overnight they mean the day leading into the night, not the day following the night, so overnight Monday would usually be understood as the night between Monday and Tuesday, not Sunday and Monday.

 

[infobleep]

I think it might have been altered. The two removed services were stated earlier, but they are still explained in the 442 thread as the 0628 Southampton Parkway to Waterloo and the 1848 Waterloo to Poole new services. Neither on your route?

No they aren't in my route but I have such an interest in timetabling that I take an interest even when it's not on my route!

I actually did see a note of the cancelled services but not in the press release itself. Just on here

 

[infobleep]

What I read mentioned that plain lining and TSR removal had been completed overnight last night. Unless of course it was a 2 night job. Usually when people mention overnight they mean the day leading into the night, not the day following the night, so overnight Monday would usually be understood as the night between Monday and Tuesday, not Sunday and Monday.

Thank you for clearing that up. I wasn't entirely sure. I shall try and remembee that for the future.

 

[swt_passenger]

Does anyone know if 1A14 (0612 Alton to Waterloo) is now scheduled to be just eight coaches (used to be twelve) ?

First day of new timetable and it is utterly rammed by Brookwood as it’s just eight.....

It’s shown as 12.450 in the May working notices.

(No 444s at Alton now by the way...)

 

[mchd2000]

Some very bizarre formations on the Direct today.

The 0544 WAT to PMH was 9 coaches. (normally 5)
The 0714 PMH to WAT was 8 coaches. (normally 12)
The 0640 HAV to WAT was 8 coaches. (new service but I would have expected it to be 12)

Lots of short formations this evening (many 8's instead of 10 = c. 200 fewer seats per train!)

 

[swt_passenger]

Some very bizarre formations on the Direct today.

The 0544 WAT to PMH was 9 coaches. (normally 5)
The 0714 PMH to WAT was 8 coaches. (normally 12)
The 0640 HAV to WAT was 8 coaches. (new service but I would have expected it to be 12)

Lots of short formations this evening (many 8's instead of 10 = c. 200 fewer seats per train!)

Carriage working notices show what they were planned to be from today:
0545 10.444
0714 10.442
0640 12.450

 

[Antman]

It’s shown as 12.450 in the May working notices.

(No 444s at Alton now by the way...)

Thank you. SWR twitter said it was supposed to be 12 a down to 8 due to a lack of 442 and other train faults ... don’t really want to have to be getting even earlier trains just to get a seat ...

 

[infobleep]

Some very bizarre formations on the Direct today.

The 0544 WAT to PMH was 9 coaches. (normally 5)
The 0714 PMH to WAT was 8 coaches. (normally 12)
The 0640 HAV to WAT was 8 coaches. (new service but I would have expected it to be 12)

Lots of short formations this evening (many 8's instead of 10 = c. 200 fewer seats per train!)

Not according to Journey Check there isn't but to be fair that's been variable recent in terms of display updates. It is currently reporting the Wimbledon issue though.

 

[infobleep]

I have had it confirmed via Twitter that there are no short fronations this evening, which is surprising but welcomed news

There must be enough rolling stock to cover evening services.

 

[infobleep]

I'm sure this will have been mentioned before but for some reason I thought the additional rolling stock would lead to more trains running in 12 car formation.

For example the 17:23 Waterloo to Basingstoke and 17:30 Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour services were both 8 carriages this evening. I would have expected then to have been 12.

Needkess to say they were busy with no free seats in the second coach from the front, when I board at Woking, for the 18:30. There were seats on the 18:23 at Surbiton but nor before that stop. Perhaps they are expecting people to switch to other services over time. I don't know how loaded the 17:18 was. Of coursw not eveeyone might be able to get to Waterloo in time for the 17:18. If travelling from Surbiton the only train I can catch at Woking is the 17:56. I can get a later one but as that stops at Surbiton anyway, no point. 5he alternative is to take the slower route via Cobham but I have to leave 12 minutes earlier and it officially gets me into Guildford 2 minutes later.

Needless to say I'd rather get these trains. I do appreciate they can't cater for everyone.

 

[swt_passenger]

For example the 17:23 Waterloo to Basingstoke and 17:30 Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour services were both 8 carriages this evening. I would have expected then to have been 12.

Should be 12.450 and 10.442 respectively, eventually. But the “additional stock” (internal cascade after all 18 x 442s in service) isn’t actually available yet, which I thought was what we were discussing the last few days?

 

[swt_passenger]

I have had it confirmed via Twitter that there are no short fronations this evening, which is surprising but welcomed news...

Not the case according to journeycheck at 20:20.
Still 3 short forms either running now, or yet to start. Just reduced from 4 within the last few minutes.

 

[mchd2000]

“No short formations tonight” in the words of SWR help’s Twitter.
The all new and “improved” 18:30 to Portsmouth, 8 coaches instead of 10 and so 200 fewer seats - completely rammed 5 minutes before departure...

 

[TEW]

I am guessing SWR are referring to no unplanned short formations on Twitter. A number of services are running with a reduced number of carriages compared to what they should be because of the delay to 442s. The May 2019 stock workings are done on the basis of there being 6 pairs of 442s in traffic, and obviously there are none. The communication of this to passengers is poor though. If SWR produced a list of services that are running with a reduced number of carriages pending the introduction of 442s I am sure people would be slightly more understanding. As it is, a lot of people turned up to catch their train this morning to find that it had less coaches than Friday, and had no warning of that, or any indication of whether it was planned or not, or for how long it might continue.

 

[paul_l]

Some very bizarre formations on the Direct today.

The 0640 HAV to WAT was 8 coaches. (new service but I would have expected it to be 12)

This was 12 coaches this morning, I was sat in coach 9. Was much quieter than similar timed trains last week, but was full and standing after Woking

 

[infobleep]

Should be 12.450 and 10.442 respectively, eventually. But the “additional stock” (internal cascade after all 18 x 442s in service) isn’t actually available yet, which I thought was what we were discussing the last few days?

It is but South Western Railway Twitter staff said there were no short formations this evening.

Are these trains technically not classed as short formations, given it was announced last week the 442s wouldn't be ready?

 

[swt_passenger]

It is but South Western Railway Twitter staff said there were no short formations thus evening.

Are these trains technically not classed as short formations, given it was announced last week the 442s wouldn't be ready?

Hasn’t TEW just explained exactly that?

 

[infobleep]

I am guessing SWR are referring to no unplanned short formations on Twitter. A number of services are running with a reduced number of carriages compared to what they should be because of the delay to 442s. The May 2019 stock workings are done on the basis of there being 6 pairs of 442s in traffic, and obviously there are none. The communication of this to passengers is poor though. If SWR produced a list of services that are running with a reduced number of carriages pending the introduction of 442s I am sure people would be slightly more understanding. As it is, a lot of people turned up to catch their train this morning to find that it had less coaches than Friday, and had no warning of that, or any indication of whether it was planned or not, or for how long it might continue.

I quite agree. That's why I sent SWR a Tweet as it seems impossible that there were no short formations this evening. I wasn't going to accuse them of not listing short formations as I couldn't say whether there would be short formations or not. So I rightly asked them.

They replied there was no short formations. I took that to include the stock reduction due to the 442s not being introduced yet. It seems it didn't. This highlights how people need to think from a customer, in this case pase her, perspective. It's sometimes easy to give a response, without realising that your customers won't understand it the same way you will and will thus misinterpret it. I've probably don't it in the past, without meaning too. It's easily done when you work day in day out with something.

I do think a list of train lengths would be good as people might change their travel time, which in turn might spread the load better. Surely that is the idea of running more trains, to spread the load, so you'd think it might extended to the number of coaches too. Just my opinion.

Hasn’t TEW just explained exactly that?

He has but I have a habit of replying to each comment in turn, where I wish to reply and then reading the next comment. Others may choose to read all comments before replying.

So in terms of payments made due to short formations, would South Western Railway have to pay for those announced last week or would they not pay because the timetable hasn't started yet and it was removed prior to the start of the timetable?

Well today the short formations are listed. Sesniable.

I don't know if that's due to comments received yesterday from commuters or just something decided internally. At the moment it stands at 14 but there maybe services that have already run, which wouldn't show up now.

I'm on 7:12 from Haslemere and this most definitely is 12 carriages. As it departed Guildford at 7:38 felt like a new service but it's just retaimed.

I don't know what the loading is like on the 6:40 from Havant, which is a new service.

 

[mchd2000]

Well today the short formations are listed. Sesniable.

I don't know if that's due to comments received yesterday from commuters or just something decided internally. At the moment it stands at 14 but there maybe services that have already run, which wouldn't show up now.

I'm on 7:12 from Haslemere and this most definitely is 12 carriages. As it departed Guildford at 7:38 felt like a new service but it's just retaimed.

I don't know what the loading is like on the 6:40 from Havant, which is a new service.

The 06:15 PMH-WAT is now a little less busy than before, but not by much - assume more people from Havant and Petersfield are choosing the 06:40 instead

 

[swt_passenger]

...and at 0900 Journeycheck is down to 11 short formed 8 vice 10 services, and they look very like only 2 diagrams if you match up the arrivals and departures.

But there’s nothing shown for after the evening peak yet, so maybe more will be added to the list later? It will be useful to see if the same pattern continues, which is what you’d expect?