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SWR new services

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HamworthyGoods

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Not all services get slower anyway; 2P90 which runs in front of 1P16 becomes 10-444 and becomes 6 minutes quicker, 2P18 which follows 1P16 becomes 4 minutes quicker.

So as paths in and out of Waterloo shuffle around some services get a little bit slower such as 1P16 and some get a little bit quicker as per 2P90 and 2P18, this is the nature of planning on a congested railway.
 
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nw1

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Interesting that 2P18 (I presume this is the Haslemere starter) becomes the 'crack express' from Guildford, giving the fastest journey into Waterloo at that time in the morning and running non-stop.
Presumably deliberate, to encourage Guildford commuters onto that one and off the Portsmouth starters.
 

HamworthyGoods

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Yes it is a 3 minute addition as the train is leaving 1 minute earlier than before. Disappointing as SWR seem to be adding a couple of minutes here and there to most peak services for no real reason - is there not already enough ‘buffer’ in the timetable?

Also not quite sure where the view everything is slowed down? Yes 1P16 has got 3 minutes slower than today due to an exchange of paths into Waterloo from Surbiton partially to facilitiate the additional 06.40 from Havant. The 06.48 from Haslemere now becomes the headline journey time of 52 minutes, comparable with the current 07.03 at 51 minutes.

Doing some quick sums the average journey time of all trains arriving in Waterloo before 10.00 remains at an average of 59 minutes.

Departures from Haslemere
05.21 (was 05.26) 69m up from 63m
05.57 new service 54m
06.02 (was 06.00) 66m down from 68m
06.16 56m down from 57m
06.29 (was 06.30) 65m down from 66m
06.48 (was 06.47) 52m down from 58m
07.02 (was 07.03) 54m up from 51m
07.08 new service 59m
07.12 (was 07.10) 58m down from 60m
07.26 58m as now
07.35 56m down from 57m
07.39 62m as now
08.01 (was 08.00) 53m down from 54m
08.08 (was 08.04) 67m down from 69m
08.32 58m down from 59m
08.39 65m up from 64m
09.02 53m as now

As you can see only 3 services have had the journey time extended, 9 services have had the journey time reduced. I don’t think that really counts as “adding a few minutes to most peak services”....
 

3141

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The timetable change isn’t really happening yet, they are basically just adding extra trains or extending some existing trains around the usual timetable. This is a transition towards some future Big Bang. At least that’s how it seems on the Weymouth route...

I think we’re veering away from 442 now so perhaps the more general timetable stuff should be in a different thread...

I've quoted your post #3261 on the Class 442 thread.

On the West of England route, I'm rather hoping they won't have a future Big Bang. The May 2019 timetable incorporates improvements in the services during Monday - Saturday evenings from hourly to half-hourly. But it doesn't have the reduced number of peak hour services from London to Overton and Grateley which were proposed in the draft consultation timetable. The proposed speeding up of services isn't happening, but would that have worked? It may be regrettable that the proposed Sarum Express doing Salisbury to Waterloo in 74 minutes with only one stop won't be running, but that was a bit freakish. I'm perfectly content that the Clapham Junction calls remain with the services from Exeter and aren't being switched to those that call at all the stations between Salisbury and Basingstoke. It seems to me that the new timetable offers some realistic improvements and not those that were probably unrealistic. The one further area where I would have liked a change is to have an hourly rather than a two-hourly service at Overton during most of the day on Sunday.
 

Kite159

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I've quoted your post #3261 on the Class 442 thread.

On the West of England route, I'm rather hoping they won't have a future Big Bang. The May 2019 timetable incorporates improvements in the services during Monday - Saturday evenings from hourly to half-hourly. But it doesn't have the reduced number of peak hour services from London to Overton and Grateley which were proposed in the draft consultation timetable. The proposed speeding up of services isn't happening, but would that have worked? It may be regrettable that the proposed Sarum Express doing Salisbury to Waterloo in 74 minutes with only one stop won't be running, but that was a bit freakish. I'm perfectly content that the Clapham Junction calls remain with the services from Exeter and aren't being switched to those that call at all the stations between Salisbury and Basingstoke. It seems to me that the new timetable offers some realistic improvements and not those that were probably unrealistic. The one further area where I would have liked a change is to have an hourly rather than a two-hourly service at Overton during most of the day on Sunday.

I just need to remember the 21:20 service on weekdays will no longer call at Grateley as that is normally the train I use when I pop up to London on a Friday and come back home.

I would also hope some of the new Salisbury - Waterloo - Salisbury services will be at least 5 coaches, just to cater for the Woking/Basingstoke crowds who see the previous service as being a "blue train" and will step back a service with "a nicer interior".
 

swt_passenger

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I've quoted your post #3261 on the Class 442 thread.

On the West of England route, I'm rather hoping they won't have a future Big Bang. The May 2019 timetable incorporates improvements in the services during Monday - Saturday evenings from hourly to half-hourly. But it doesn't have the reduced number of peak hour services from London to Overton and Grateley which were proposed in the draft consultation timetable. The proposed speeding up of services isn't happening, but would that have worked? It may be regrettable that the proposed Sarum Express doing Salisbury to Waterloo in 74 minutes with only one stop won't be running, but that was a bit freakish. I'm perfectly content that the Clapham Junction calls remain with the services from Exeter and aren't being switched to those that call at all the stations between Salisbury and Basingstoke. It seems to me that the new timetable offers some realistic improvements and not those that were probably unrealistic. The one further area where I would have liked a change is to have an hourly rather than a two-hourly service at Overton during most of the day on Sunday.
Big Bang may have been overdoing it. I was thinking of the sort of change expected on the Southampton route, where they’ll change all the standard departure times from Waterloo, currently xx05/xx35, and xx09/xx39 for fast and semi-fast respectively.
 

HamworthyGoods

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I've quoted your post #3261 on the Class 442 thread.

On the West of England route, I'm rather hoping they won't have a future Big Bang. The May 2019 timetable incorporates improvements in the services during Monday - Saturday evenings from hourly to half-hourly. But it doesn't have the reduced number of peak hour services from London to Overton and Grateley which were proposed in the draft consultation timetable. The proposed speeding up of services isn't happening, but would that have worked? It may be regrettable that the proposed Sarum Express doing Salisbury to Waterloo in 74 minutes with only one stop won't be running, but that was a bit freakish. I'm perfectly content that the Clapham Junction calls remain with the services from Exeter and aren't being switched to those that call at all the stations between Salisbury and Basingstoke. It seems to me that the new timetable offers some realistic improvements and not those that were probably unrealistic. The one further area where I would have liked a change is to have an hourly rather than a two-hourly service at Overton during most of the day on Sunday.

Current thinking is Overton and Whitchurch will get their hourly Sunday service from December 2019 this was one change that got ruled out by the industry timetable PMO for May 2019 but was deferred rather than canned.
 

Kite159

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Current thinking is Overton and Whitchurch will get their hourly Sunday service from December 2019 this was one change that got ruled out by the industry timetable PMO for May 2019 but was deferred rather than canned.

Although wasn't the plan going to be the 'new' Salisbury - Reading services being all stops allowing the 'West of Salisbury' - Waterloo services to only call at Andover [like the weekday/Saturday].

I think the current timetable can take calling at all the stations on Sundays as the trains sit at Basingstoke for upto 5 minutes for a clockface departure at XX:10, seems to be arrivals at XX:05 for those which skip Overton, XX:06 for those which skip Grateley and XX:08 for the first couple which calls at all the stations. I can remember before Whitchurch was added to all the hourly services, the service which ran fast from Andover to Basingstoke would arrive around XX:02

[www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/BSK/from/SAL/2019/05/12/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt for example]
 

HamworthyGoods

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Although wasn't the plan going to be the 'new' Salisbury - Reading services being all stops allowing the 'West of Salisbury' - Waterloo services to only call at Andover [like the weekday/Saturday].

I think the current timetable can take calling at all the stations on Sundays as the trains sit at Basingstoke for upto 5 minutes for a clockface departure at XX:10, seems to be arrivals at XX:05 for those which skip Overton, XX:06 for those which skip Grateley and XX:08 for the first couple which calls at all the stations. I can remember before Whitchurch was added to all the hourly services, the service which ran fast from Andover to Basingstoke would arrive around XX:02

[www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/BSK/from/SAL/2019/05/12/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt for example]

You are spot on, it’ll be in the Salisbury’s from Dec which allows the Exeter’s to be sped up a little.
 

31160

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£7 return from Poole to Corfe Castle.
Thank you, would that ticket only be valid on the 159 or could you use it on a 444 as far as Wareham, if you dont know it's fine, I just dont wanna spend all that time in Poole
 

700007

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Thank you, would that ticket only be valid on the 159 or could you use it on a 444 as far as Wareham, if you dont know it's fine, I just dont wanna spend all that time in Poole
I should be right in saying you can use the 444 as well as it isn't an advance ticket, just a promotional day return ticket but someone else may know better.
 

Kite159

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It might be different this year but last year I had no issues using a £5 ticket from Weymouth to Corfe Castle, changing at Wareham from the 444 to the 159. But that was when the 159 used to do a couple shuttles rather than heading to Bournemouth.

The tickets from Yeovil -> Salisbury were routed something along the lines of "SWR via Yeovil".
 

mchd2000

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Anyone know which peak time services are due to be cancelled/short formed from Monday?
Assume without the 442s there won’t be enough stock to complete all the 300 extra services
 

swt_passenger

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mchd2000

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It’s all in the 442 thread, which includes links to SWR’s statement. Only 2 new services are cancelled, others are short formed or alternative stock:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...and-redeployment.127422/page-111#post-4009016
I just struggle to believe that SWR will be able to run the increased number of services which they promised (despite having 2 cancellations a day) without the extra rolling stock from the 442s

I understand that they have cancelled 1 of the additional 3 diagrams but do SWR have the surplus 450 and 444 stock to cover the other 2 diagrams which were to be run by 442s?

I feel like the answer is 'no' because of the interior refurb taking up c. 6 units AND because 450 stock displaced from the Portsmouth Direct must be being used to provide extra Suburban services? Which would further increase the strain on available rolling stock
 

HamworthyGoods

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I just struggle to believe that SWR will be able to run the increased number of services which they promised (despite having 2 cancellations a day) without the extra rolling stock from the 442s

I understand that they have cancelled 1 of the additional 3 diagrams but do SWR have the surplus 450 and 444 stock to cover the other 2 diagrams which were to be run by 442s?

I feel like the answer is 'no' because of the interior refurb taking up c. 6 units AND because 450 stock displaced from the Portsmouth Direct must be being used to provide extra Suburban services? Which would further increase the strain on available rolling stock

Refurb programme has been suspended to help provide the stock.
 

swt_passenger

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I just struggle to believe that SWR will be able to run the increased number of services which they promised (despite having 2 cancellations a day) without the extra rolling stock from the 442s

I understand that they have cancelled 1 of the additional 3 diagrams but do SWR have the surplus 450 and 444 stock to cover the other 2 diagrams which were to be run by 442s?

I feel like the answer is 'no' because of the interior refurb taking up c. 6 units AND because 450 stock displaced from the Portsmouth Direct must be being used to provide extra Suburban services? Which would further increase the strain on available rolling stock
The obvious solution is to short form existing services, and/or slow down the refurb programme as just posted. Eg running two planned 12.450s as three 8.450s provides one extra train...
 

mchd2000

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The obvious solution is to short form existing services, and/or slow down the refurb programme as just posted. Eg running two planned 12.450s as three 8.450s provides one extra train...
Yes, they could but that would only worsen the overcrowding on the fast services, particularly on the Direct, but also on the Woking stoppers.
To put it bluntly, 1/3 of people don’t get on, their journeys are delayed and SWR don’t pay compensation!
 

FenMan

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Yes, they could but that would only worsen the overcrowding on the fast services, particularly on the Direct, but also on the Woking stoppers.
To put it bluntly, 1/3 of people don’t get on, their journeys are delayed and SWR don’t pay compensation!

What would you suggest SWR do instead?
 

mchd2000

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What would you suggest SWR do instead?
I would rather SWR made it clearer which additional services (over and above the 2 they have cancelled) will not run/will be short formed so that commuters can plan around these services!
 

moley

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I would rather SWR made it clearer which additional services (over and above the 2 they have cancelled) will not run/will be short formed so that commuters can plan around these services!
They intend to run all other services.

Believe they have paused the Desiro refurbishment therefore that releases a 9 car and an 8 car

I’m guessing that they have also switched diagrams to put into use a set that would otherwise stay at Clapham inter-peak.

That gives you the cover for the three diagrams except for the two trains advertised as cancelled.
 

43096

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The obvious solution is to short form existing services, and/or slow down the refurb programme as just posted. Eg running two planned 12.450s as three 8.450s provides one extra train...
The obvious solution is to run the existing timetable until they can get the extra sets in service. Feed them into existing diagrams when they are ready and then up the timetable. When will these companies learn?
 

HamworthyGoods

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The obvious solution is to run the existing timetable until they can get the extra sets in service. Feed them into existing diagrams when they are ready and then up the timetable. When will these companies learn?

Timetabling for the long term plan starts 55 weeks out with the Notice of Significant change the man firmed up 40 weeks out; you have to take the best estimation of the engineers at the time over availability of rolling stock and their view is 442s would be ready.

If you waited until they were physically ready you would then have to wait over a year to do a significant timetable change. That is how the agreed industry process via the Network Code works which doesn’t sit with waiting for things to be ready then using them which is why problems like this occur nationwide.
 

mchd2000

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Timetabling for the long term plan starts 55 weeks out with the Notice of Significant change the man firmed up 40 weeks out; you have to take the best estimation of the engineers at the time over availability of rolling stock and their view is 442s would be ready.

If you waited until they were physically ready you would then have to wait over a year to do a significant timetable change. That is how the agreed industry process via the Network Code works which doesn’t sit with waiting for things to be ready then using them which is why problems like this occur nationwide.
I still believe that cancelling the required number of services in order to ensure every service is running at full length would be a better solution.
I feel that while it would be poor publicity for SWR to give more realistic expectations to the passengers, however I would much rather a more reliable service with trains turning up at the correct length.
There is nothing worse than turning up to a short formed train, as happened to me a couple of weeks ago where the 18:05 to Weymouth was 5 instead of 10 - un-boardable 10mins before departure!
 
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