If I was ORR I would grant the rights from Stirling to Carlisle, on condition that the trains run for at least 10 years. That should be enough to stop any more proposals.
https://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/41688/grand-union-trains-notification-form.pdf
Another service from Grand Union Trains:
Any thoughts?
In what sense? Have I imagined all the times I've travelled on them when they've been full and standing? In 2016 the 1800 from Manchester Airport was booked 8 cars on Fridays and would always be all seats taken leaving PrestonThe TPE services are hardly full to bursting
IAN YEOWART is the man your talking about. Previously responsible from Grand Central and Alliance Rail Holdings
I strongly suspect that this latest proposal from them, along with the Cardiff and Southampton proposals, rather than being serious proposals are attempts to get stations included in their applications a better service to/from London. For the Cardiff services I wouldn't be surprised if the sole purpose of putting in the application is an attempt to get GWR London services to call at Severn Tunnel Junction rather than it being a serious proposal, and for this I wouldn't be surprised if the aim was to get a more frequent London service at Stirling rather than a serious proposal to actually operate such a service themselves. Of course I could be wrong, but that's the impression I'm getting from these various open access applications from Grand Union Trains and Alliance Rail.
Stirling to Carlisle (and London) 3 or 4 times a day? If it was something with two carriages going as far as Motherwell I could maybe see it working.
I meant as far as Motherwell from Stirling, not London!
Really though. I like a direct service as much as anyone and more than some, but the way to give Stirling a link to the WCML is either to have regular WCML trains to Edinburgh or to extend the Milngavie - Cumbernauld service to Stirling, not a modern day Clansman!
We should have a new trivia thread. Biggest town that Grand Union hasn't proposed a service to.
cl91 sets off lease and available, mk 4 rake length is arbitrary.Nice!
Shame a 9 coach service is too long to call at Sunny-D. It would be amazing to stand at Euston and wait for the Dunblane Train.
In what sense? Have I imagined all the times I've travelled on them when they've been full and standing? In 2016 the 1800 from Manchester Airport was booked 8 cars on Fridays and would always be all seats taken leaving Preston
Question:I'd agree about problems over revenue abstraction at Carlisle, Preston and Crewe, which is probably the main aim of the proposal.
Knowing people that have had to deal with these plans and having been on the periphery of them in the past, some of it is quite justified!He is certainly not popular amongst many on here for some reason.
Coatbridge Central, surely? Sunnyside is on the North Clyde Line.I would have thought that there would be a significant demand for travel from the growing population in central Scotland to places on the WCML.
BTW, about 50 years ago the 12.00 from Glasgow was joined at Carstairs by a portion from Perth - the only train to call at Coatbridge Sunnyside, I think.
Oops, forgot which was which!Coatbridge Central, surely? Sunnyside is on the North Clyde Line.
Question:
When does "revenue abstraction" become "healthy competition"?
Insert standard not gonna happen statement here.
Question:
When does "revenue abstraction" become "healthy competition"?
You wouldn't think a 9-car IC225 solution would work north of Preston.
5-car EMUs doubling up south of Preston would be a better fit, or even repurposed 350/2s.
What would be the motivation for doing that? It's not going to benefit the company making the application at all?I strongly suspect that this latest proposal from them, along with the Cardiff and Southampton proposals, rather than being serious proposals are attempts to get stations included in their applications a better service to/from London. For the Cardiff services I wouldn't be surprised if the sole purpose of putting in the application is an attempt to get GWR London services to call at Severn Tunnel Junction rather than it being a serious proposal, and for this I wouldn't be surprised if the aim was to get a more frequent London service at Stirling rather than a serious proposal to actually operate such a service themselves. Of course I could be wrong, but that's the impression I'm getting from these various open access applications from Grand Union Trains and Alliance Rail.
Wouldn’t be surprised if First second liverpool service was because of virgins plans. Their are other services that need more trains not liverpool. That path could surely be put to better use?Blackpool coming Spring 2020. And First Group’s plans for a second hourly service to Liverpool has probably killed Virgin’s plans off. Stirling may have some new market but again First Groups plans to increase stops at Motherwell and Milton Keynes may have meant some significant abstraction.
Their are other services that need more trains not liverpool. That path could surely be put to better use?
People from Carlisle and Preston use the Birmingham services to Euston to benefit from cheaper fares than on the direct route; they may do the same if fares on a GU service are below the usual market price.Can't see how a service timed at 110mph with several stops will raid ORCATS from Carlisle and Preston, or doesn't ORCATS still favour the fastest journeys between points in terms of revenue allocation?