SWR new services

[theironroad]

SWR TV advert filming.

A bit off topic, but I see that a red seat 444 + Waterloo featured a fair bit in a TV programme last night...I'll try a remember what it was called in a minute lol

 

[Bigfoot]

Is that also why specifically 450111 was used for this (haven seen airtime before and has SWR branding inside and out)?

If you were going to film an advert for your company would you use your new colours and branding or 10+ year old previous companies colours?

I do wonder if people actually take a moment to think these days.

 

[swt_passenger]

Do we know if the new timetable has been submitted to Network Rail yet? I thought that for large changes like this it would need to be with them by now to review, like the GWR new timetable is.

All you can say for sure is that it isn't available yet on either the NR or ORR public websites. Doesn't mean it isn't in the system, those pages are not known for their speed of updating.

 

[700007]

If you were going to film an advert for your company would you use your new colours and branding or 10+ year old previous companies colours?

I do wonder if people actually take a moment to think these days.

Hey, I did answer my own question before your input - no need to be snappy!

 

[infobleep]

Just noticed that from December the 17:56 Woking to Portsmouth and 18:58 Woking to Portsmouth services are retimed.

The 17:56 will depart 17:55 and the 18:58 will switch to platform 4 and depart at 18:55.

This will break the official connections off the 17:39 and 18:40 services from Surbtiin to Woking, thus officially removing two useful connections, as those trains are not being retimed.

I reckon with some running at Woking Station it may still be possible to make both trains. I'm also not sure how the 18:55 will depart on time. Most trains around that time seem to run late. The previous hour less so though.

I appreciate there are winners and losers but I'm not personally keen on being a loser.

 

[irfquake123]

All you can say for sure is that it isn't available yet on either the NR or ORR public websites. Doesn't mean it isn't in the system, those pages are not known for their speed of updating.

Any news? I was hoping for further changes to the Reading/Windsor lines

 

[Goldfish62]

Any news? I was hoping for further changes to the Reading/Windsor lines

I've just had a look at RTT. There are a handful of extra shoulder peak services for Reading. Apart from one 30 min gap 4tph from Reading in the morning is now from first train until 1012, and from Waterloo in the afternoon/evening from 1520 until 2020. I can only see one extra PM peak service for Windsor, via Hounslow.

I haven't picked any changes at weekends.

 

[swt_passenger]

Any news? I was hoping for further changes to the Reading/Windsor lines

Goldfish62 has answered the specific point, but the general SWR timetable appears to have few major changes from checking realtimetrains. Given the key thing required to bring in all the Portsmouth line changes is the 442s being available I don’t expect to see much at all. If they aren’t available I expect there’s also no way to do the Weymouth line and extra Portsmouth - Bournemouth trains either, as there’ll be no stock to internally cascade.

The chap who does a “before and after comparison site” has it online here:
https://live-departures.info/rail/timetable-comparison/?q=SW

 

[nw1]

Noticed last Friday the 15:39 Waterloo to Brockenhurst was 8-car throughout, thus you had an 8.450 on a lightly-loaded service terminating at Brockenhurst in the height of the Waterloo rush hour.

Is this booked? (It has historically been either a 4.450 or 5.444). Doesn't seem a very efficient use of stock if so, you'd think at the moment in particular, with the 442s missing, they'd need as many units as they can to be in the London area in the peaks. This service might perhaps need 8 car as far as Basingstoke but certainly not beyond - and surely it would be better to reduce this particular service to 4-car, rather than reducing the lengths or cancelling peak services out of Waterloo.

 

[swt_passenger]

Noticed last Friday the 15:39 Waterloo to Brockenhurst was 8-car throughout, thus you had an 8.450 on a lightly-loaded service terminating at Brockenhurst in the height of the Waterloo rush hour.

Is this booked? (It has historically been either a 4.450 or 5.444). Doesn't seem a very efficient use of stock if so, you'd think at the moment in particular, with the 442s missing, they'd need as many units as they can to be in the London area in the peaks. This service might perhaps need 8 car as far as Basingstoke but certainly not beyond - and surely it would be better to reduce this particular service to 4-car, rather than reducing the lengths or cancelling peak services out of Waterloo.

Yes it is booked 8.450 now, was a 5.444 before May. It also runs ECS to Northam depot after terminating, so there may be sound reasons for keeping it 8 car.

 

[nw1]

Yes it is booked 8.450 now, was a 5.444 before May.

Surprised then (as I said in my previous post) they're sending an 8 car all the way to Brockenhurst when one of the 450s would be put to better use ensuring that peak services out of Waterloo are maximum possible length (now more than ever with the 442s out of action). If 8 are needed to Basingstoke, could they not divide at Basingstoke and send 4 back on a Waterloo stopping service?

 

[irfquake123]

Thanks all.

Seems its incremental changes again , unless there are more changes made between now and December

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Noticed last Friday the 15:39 Waterloo to Brockenhurst was 8-car throughout, thus you had an 8.450 on a lightly-loaded service terminating at Brockenhurst in the height of the Waterloo rush hour.

Is this booked? (It has historically been either a 4.450 or 5.444). Doesn't seem a very efficient use of stock if so, you'd think at the moment in particular, with the 442s missing, they'd need as many units as they can to be in the London area in the peaks. This service might perhaps need 8 car as far as Basingstoke but certainly not beyond - and surely it would be better to reduce this particular service to 4-car, rather than reducing the lengths or cancelling peak services out of Waterloo.

The 15.39 isn’t particularly lightly loaded except beyond Southampton, it’s loads pretty heavily away from Winchester with local commuters.

 

[mchd2000]

Are there any plans to reduce the number of Godalming calls on the Portsmouth Direct Fasts and Semis?

In the evenings, Godalming calls have exacerbated the overcrowding on the Fast services and the Slows feel under-utilised by comparison.

Appreciate that removing the Godalming call on the bi-hourly fasts would simply mean that the Fast would catch up the Slow faster before Haslemere.

However, it could potentially be done with the 1815 down service (like with the 1715 down service) as it has a clear path I believe. Would reduce journey times to Haslemere and beyond by 3 minutes or so.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Are there any plans to reduce the number of Godalming calls on the Portsmouth Direct Fasts and Semis?

In the evenings, Godalming calls have exacerbated the overcrowding on the Fast services and the Slows feel under-utilised by comparison.

Appreciate that removing the Godalming call on the bi-hourly fasts would simply mean that the Fast would catch up the Slow faster before Haslemere.

However, it could potentially be done with the 1815 down service (like with the 1715 down service) as it has a clear path I believe. Would reduce journey times to Haslemere and beyond by 3 minutes or so.

Godalming has always featured in the xx00 and xx30 fasts from Waterloo in the evenings and is such a mandated calling pattern in the franchise agreement - this is available on the dft website. Woking however appears to be optional

 

[infobleep]

Godalming has always featured in the xx00 and xx30 fasts from Waterloo in the evenings and is such a mandated calling pattern in the franchise agreement - this is available on the dft website. Woking however appears to be optional

What I find interesting are the fast trains from Waterloo that stop at Farncombe in the evening. They are at times you wouldn't expect. 20:00 being the most obvious one, given there is a 19:45 and 20:15. I can't imagine there would be a big flux of commuters at 20:00.

Later on there is 21.00; 21:30; 22;00, 22:30. I appreciate there is no 21:15 or 22:15 but there is a 20:45 and 21:45 and 22:45, so you might expect some of the other four to skip Farncombe. Perhaps just running two out of the four.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

What I find interesting are the fast trains from Waterloo that stop at Farncombe in the evening. They are at times you wouldn't expect. 20:00 being the most obvious one, given there is a 19:45 and 20:15. I can't imagine there would be a big flux of commuters at 20:00.

Later on there is 21.00; 21:30; 22;00, 22:30. I appreciate there is no 21:15 or 22:15 but there is a 20:45 and 21:45 and 22:45, so you might expect some of the other four to skip Farncombe. Perhaps just running two out of the four.

With the 21.15 and 22.15 starting in December the 21.30 and 22.30 loose their Farncombe calls

 

[mchd2000]

Where is the stock planned to come from for all these additional services - seems that stock is already extremely stretched by the current timetable and having to operate without the 442s.
In addition the franchise feels understaffed altogether. There have been a very high number of cancellations in recent months due to ‘a member of train crew being unavailable’ etc.

 

[Goldfish62]

Where is the stock planned to come from for all these additional services - seems that stock is already extremely stretched by the current timetable and having to operate without the 442s.
In addition the franchise feels understaffed altogether. There have been a very high number of cancellations in recent months due to ‘a member of train crew being unavailable’ etc.

It's coming from the 442s. If they're not available from December I would have there are going to be huge problems.

I agree re staff shortages. SWT generally went through a couple of weeks of such cancellations during the Summer, but with SWR it's just carrying on.

 

[pompeyfan]

In regards to staff shortages it’s theres many factors in play. SWR are struggling to keep hold of their drivers due to their pay being so poor comparatively. On top of that, they’re trying to expand. Lots of guards are going driver, which then means there’s guards vacancies to fill, again while trying to expand.

The company is blighted by poor morale and long hours or poor pay (by industry standards) competitors are employing and paying much better, it’s not a surprise they’ve got no train crew.

In regards to rolling stock, what options are available? Loco hauled stock with DVT/TnT, 365s... other than that there’s not a huge amount surplus yet.

 

[mchd2000]

In regards to rolling stock, what options are available? Loco hauled stock with DVT/TnT, 365s... other than that there’s not a huge amount surplus yet.

Would have thought it will be difficult for SWR to wet lease different rolling stock due to route clearance and driver training issues?
Regarding loco hauled stock, presumably these would need to be diesel as I don’t think there are any third rail locos?
It would also reduce capacity quite significantly from a 12 car train as I would have thought platform lengths would only allow the locos to haul 8 or 9 carriages

 

[infobleep]

Would have thought it will be difficult for SWR to wet lease different rolling stock due to route clearance and driver training issues?
Regarding loco hauled stock, presumably these would need to be diesel as I don’t think there are any third rail locos?
It would also reduce capacity quite significantly from a 12 car train as I would have thought platform lengths would only allow the locos to haul 8 or 9 carriages

Whilst I don't think it's workable, due to traction knowledge alone, having one train run has 8 or 9 might in theory allow two other trains to run as 12 car rather than 8. That would be better in theory than running three trains at 8 car lengths. I say theory because overall I don't think it's workable.

 

[Blaahh]

Would have thought it will be difficult for SWR to wet lease different rolling stock due to route clearance and driver training issues?
Regarding loco hauled stock, presumably these would need to be diesel as I don’t think there are any third rail locos?
It would also reduce capacity quite significantly from a 12 car train as I would have thought platform lengths would only allow the locos to haul 8 or 9 carriages

Well there's all of GBRf 73/1s likely to be underused over winter, their own 73235, 73133...

 

[pompeyfan]

Well there's all of GBRf 73/1s likely to be underused over winter, their own 73235, 73133...

We’re unlikely to see any temporary stock, but 73 hauled is 100% not happening, wouldn’t be powerful enough and I’d imagine trying to get them to work with Mk4s wouldn’t be worth the hassle. Possibly hired in 67s (or similar) and Mk4s at an absolute push or the 365s (run on Basingstoke stoppers as 8 cars) but anything else is a non starter. I appreciate need to be careful and this is well on the way to being speculative.

 

[GW43125]

Digressing a little (and I know this almost certainly wouldn't happen because of gauging, paperwork, training etc.), but how easy would it be to put the shoes back on 365s to use them on outer suburban work?

 

[swt_passenger]

Digressing a little (and I know this almost certainly wouldn't happen because of gauging, paperwork, training etc.), but how easy would it be to put the shoes back on 365s to use them on outer suburban work?

No one is sure, based on posts in threads about 365s over the last few months. But I don’t think SWR are in any worse position now than in the first days after the timetable change. A handful of short forms and a couple of additional peak extra services that aren’t running. Basically managed by slowing down 450 refurbs again. A relatively minor issue compared to all those other future additional services that are probably now deferred another year, ie Dec 2020. Can only foresee minor increments in May 2020.

 

[theironroad]

Seems to be a lot of fantasy going on here. Even if the stock was ready to run tomorrow , the last thing SWR need right now is to remove hundreds of guards and drivers from running trains to undertake traction training for a short term issue.

 

[pompeyfan]

Seems to be a lot of fantasy going on here. Even if the stock was ready to run tomorrow , the last thing SWR need right now is to remove hundreds of guards and drivers from running trains to undertake traction training for a short term issue.

well that is correct but at the same time Scotrail managed it.

 

[infobleep]

I appreciate the issues with the 442s were not known about until late but will take late introduction affect what South Western Railway pay in term of franchise premiums? The infrastructure delays may have meant they paid less but the rolling etock issues, although unforseen, might still fall upon them. Any ideas?

 

[Esker-pades]

well that is correct but at the same time Scotrail managed it.

Not without a significant number of cancellations and eventually having to offer free travel at weekends to season ticket holders because of disruption.