Unknowing misuse of staff nominee pass - so worried

[LouiseSt]

I told them where I had travelled from when asked as I didn’t see there would be an issue.

 

[Haywain]

The discussion of T&Cs is all very well, but the nominee pass is a staff benefit and in general terms there is an obligation on the staff and those who benefit from their employment to be aware of any limitations on the use of such passes.

 

[dmncf]

You can't look at your journey history on tfl app or website with a staff or nominee pass.

I think you can see the journey history on a TfL ticket machine e.g. at a London Underground station, but I don't think they show very far back in time. One may be able to ask staff to print the journey history for you, perhaps at the TfL Visitor Centre at Liverpool Street London Underground Station?
https://tfl.gov.uk/travel-information/visiting-london/getting-around-london/visitor-centres

 

[sheff1]

Any nominee pass is generally for leisure and this is most likely what will be the issue

This is incorrect, as has been clearly stated earlier.

 

[najaB]

So I tap at the barriers only so only at London Liverpool Street.

That muddies the water considerably since you now have no proof of the journeys that you actually made. With only a tap in at Liverpool Street, for all GA/TfL know you might have been travelling from Norwich!

 

[LouiseSt]

That muddies the water considerably since you now have no proof of the journeys that you actually made. With only a tap in at Liverpool Street, for all GA/TfL know you might have been travelling from Norwich!

Fair point! It gets worse for me it seems. At this stage I am willing to be fined for any action that has left the company out of pocket and pay that even in instalments if need be I just do not want a criminal record or my husband who is totally innocent and oblivious to my mistake until yesterday to face any consequences. As a mother of two children under 5 this would be devastating and stop my involvement in various ways with their primary school/affect future family travels potentially/affect employment - existing and future and I really don’t know if I can face this full stop.

 

[najaB]

Fair point! It gets worse for me it seems.

Not necessarily. It just means that the onus is on you to provide evidence to support your story if it comes to that. So think if you have anything that supports your regular travel pattern.

Also, be prepared to explain why you didn't tap in.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Also, be prepared to explain why you didn't tap in.

This is crucial as not tapping in would suggest you wilfully boarded the train with intent to not pay for your journey - this is probably what Greater Anglia might be wondering right now

Did you think/believe that you did not need to tap in at the start of your journey? How would the "system" know at Liverpool Street know what journey you made?

Had you tapped in at the start of your journey (at Rye House), GA might be none the wiser...

 

[Surreytraveller]

Any nominee pass is generally for leisure and this is most likely what will be the issue

That is not the case here

 

[Surreytraveller]

Not necessarily. It just means that the onus is on you to provide evidence to support your story if it comes to that. So think if you have anything that supports your regular travel pattern.

Also, be prepared to explain why you didn't tap in.

On the contrary, there is no requirement to tap in or out with a staff/nominee pass, so it put the onus on GA to disprove the OP's story

 

[Mag_seven]

This is crucial as not tapping in would suggest you wilfully boarded the train with intent to not pay for your journey

I refer you to my post above:

With staff passes there is no requirement to tap in or out except if required to open the ticket barrier gates.

 

[30907]

As a mother of two children under 5 this would be devastating and stop my involvement in various ways with their primary school/affect future family travels potentially/affect employment - existing and future.

A conviction (if it gets that far) would be embarrassing, certainly, and hit your bank balance (as would an out of court settlement!), but no more than that; it shouldn't have the effects you describe, so don't panic:
it would show up on a DBS check, but it is not the sort of offence that should bar you from volunteering/working with children/vulnerable adults;
you might need to declare it on a job application, but it isn't serious enough to concern most employers (nor the US Visa authorities IIRC).

 

[matt_world2004]

The nominee pass is valid on abellio greater Anglia between Liverpool Street and Stratford.

However as the Abellio greater Anglia service from rye house doesn't call at Stratford it would have been pretty obvious to the revenue that the train was on was invalid

A residential address near rye house station would be sufficient proof that you were starting at rye house especially if you were on a morning commuter train.

 

[najaB]

On the contrary, there is no requirement to tap in or out with a staff/nominee pass, so it put the onus on GA to disprove the OP's story

There's nothing for GA to disprove - the OP has already admitted misusing the Oyster card. The only question that remains to be answered is the amount of fare that's not been paid.

Hence a history of tap ins at Rye House would be useful.

 

[bramling]

Any nominee pass is generally for leisure and this is most likely what will be the issue

LT nominee passes are not restricted for leisure, they can be used for anything at any time. Just to confuse things, the equivalent PRIV for partners and the like *is* restricted - as indeed it is for serving staff.

Having said that, I’d be surprised if in reality many revenue staff care too much about serving staff getting the discount for occasional work journeys. Personally I’d be inclined not to take the risk though. I’d imagine less leeway for partners and dependents.

 

[LouiseSt]

With staff passes there is no requirement to tap in or out except if required to open the ticket barrier gates.

Is this spelt out anywhere?

 

[Surreytraveller]

Is this spelt out anywhere?

If there was a requirement, then that would be spelt out somewhere

 

[najaB]

Is this spelt out anywhere?

"This" being?

 

[221129]

"This" being?

Presumably the Not needing to tap in or out, thought that was quite obvious really.

 

[Brissle Girl]

If there was a requirement, then that would be spelt out somewhere

Given that tapping in and out is the usual requirement for oyster cards, I would have thought there would have to be a clear positive statement to the effect that it was not required if that is the case.

However, all this comes back to knowing the terms and conditions for using a nominee card. On that point, I would strongly encourage the OP, via her husband, to get hold of a copy of them, so that she can see for herself how she should have used the card, and the extent of the unintended misuse, as any discussions with GA, (or indeed her husband with his employer), will be made easier if they can say "OK, I understand exactly what I did wrong now."

 

[Surreytraveller]

Given that tapping in and out is the usual requirement for oyster cards, I would have thought there would have to be a clear positive statement to the effect that it was not required if that is the case.

However, all this comes back to knowing the terms and conditions for using a nominee card. On that point, I would strongly encourage the OP, via her husband, to get hold of a copy of them, so that she can see for herself how she should have used the card, and the extent of the unintended misuse, as any discussions with GA, (or indeed her husband with his employer), will be made easier if they can say "OK, I understand exactly what I did wrong now."

Tapping in and out is not the usual requirement for Oystercards when you are using a season on them. Tapping in and out is only a requirement if your journey involves Pay as You Go. But a staff pass is not subject to the usual T&Cs of Oystercards.
Indeed, I'm not sure of whether or not you can actually add PAYG to a staff pass to enable you to use it for other journeys? I suspect the possibility of being able to use it for parts of a journey would make it too complicated for the system.

Additionally, are nominees required to sign to say they've received T&Cs? In which case, how can the issuing organisation prove that the holder has been made aware?

 

[Aivilo]

It's not that it's not a requirement it's simply not affected by not starting the journey.

And thank you for pointing out the commuter stuff we were always advised to use nominees for leisure only

 

[najaB]

Presumably the Not needing to tap in or out, thought that was quite obvious really.

Excuse me for not wanting to make any assumptions where potential criminal charges are concerned.

 

[transplanted]

Indeed, I'm not sure of whether or not you can actually add PAYG to a staff pass to enable you to use it for other journeys? I suspect the possibility of being able to use it for parts of a journey would make it too complicated for the system.

You can't add payg credit to a staff or nominee pass.

 

[Ralph Ayres]

The current application form for a Nominee Pass details where the pass can be used, including which NR services are covered. It includes a warning to the Staff member saying "You, as a TfL employee, are responsible for all staff Oyster cards issued to you and your partner" (which should really have been updated to encompass other types of nominee of course). It also has a space for the Nominee to sign, agreeing that "I have read and understood these terms". That does all make things a bit tricky, though I don't know if the wording has always been that clear and a lack of awareness of the rules is common particularly if the relevant bit only becomes relevant years after the pass is issued and the form is signed. I try to get my other half to check with me before making a journey where there could be any uncertainty, though it's more likely she'd think she had to pay for a journey that could be free than the other way round.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

So if LouiseSt has unknowingly misused a priv oyster, does she wait for the letter from GA requesting she explains her actions and start saving for a possible fine?

 

[matt_world2004]

You don't have to tap in or out with a staff oyster ,indeed with the TfL rail extension to reading you can't.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

You don't have to tap in or out with a staff oyster ,indeed with the TfL rail extension to reading you can't.

I am assuming then a priv Oyster is not valid on GA services so have we got anything else useful to add for ElaineSt?

 

[furlong]

The question about tapping in was that *if* that had been done (and we now know it wasn't), would it have been rejected as invalid for use on any services from this station (which should have caused the OP to realise they needed to use an alternative), or would it have given an incorrect 'valid' indication (which would have helped explain the OP's mistake)?

 

[Surreytraveller]

So if LouiseSt has unknowingly misused a priv oyster, does she wait for the letter from GA requesting she explains her actions and start saving for a possible fine?

Its not a PRIV Oystercard. That is something different. It is a TfL Nominee Staff Pass
I do feel sorry for dependants / partners etc. It really is very complicated, and a lot of them are nervous about using these facilities