cactustwirly
Established Member
But you could put engines under 7 of the 9 cars without a design change which must be close to 222 performance.
Well you can ask Abellio why they thought it wasn't suitable
But you could put engines under 7 of the 9 cars without a design change which must be close to 222 performance.
At the moment the xx45 services from Nottingham have a 70 minute layover at St Pancras, and xx31 services from St Pancras to Sheffield have a 90 minute layover at Sheffield.
A more uniform fleet allows more interworking with services allowing shorter turnaround times.
Personally I'd put double sets on the Fast Sheffield and Nottingham services (replacing 7 car 222s and 8 car HSTs) and single sets on the slow Nottingham and semi fast Sheffield services (replacing 4/5 car 222s)
I have been on off peak Slow Nottingham/Sheffield services which have been just as busy as the fast ones.
Yes, but don’t forget there will be a timetable recast as the Corby electrification will take a lot of the south of Kettering intermediate traffic. Get it right and the Midland service becomes almost a German/Swiss style out of London, though I can’t help feeling we’ll get it wrong. By that I mean:I have been on off peak Slow Nottingham/Sheffield services which have been just as busy as the fast ones.
Platform length at STP is restrictive along with a few others, but STP is the harder one to change apparently to do with the junction clearance ahead of the platform ends.Why are they 23m anyway? I thought the clearances would be good on the MML.
I mean surely the Huddersfield line is more restrictive, yet 802's run on that!
Is it to do with platform lengths at St Pancras? Still, logic would dictate changing the 80X design less and just ordering a 9x26m 802 with some extra engines.
A more uniform fleet allows more interworking with services allowing shorter turnaround times.
But a 9-car 26m length set is 234m and a 10-car 24m set is 240m. So that’s not the issue.Platform length at STP is restrictive along with a few others, but STP is the harder one to change apparently to do with the junction clearance ahead of the platform ends.
But a 9-car 26m length set is 234m and a 10-car 24m set is 240m. So that’s not the issue.
Anyone knowing the Midland knows the 70min turnround on the Nottingham fasts is excessive.<warning klaxon>
Anyone proposing such things needs to go and see what happened at Northern and LNR before even considering it.
</warning klaxon>
Why bother with 5 car at all if you are going to be pairing most of the time?
What's wrong with just getting the 9 car 802 versions?
At the moment the xx45 services from Nottingham have a 70 minute layover at St Pancras, and xx31 services from St Pancras to Sheffield have a 90 minute layover at Sheffield.
A more uniform fleet allows more interworking with services allowing shorter turnaround times.
Personally I'd put double sets on the Fast Sheffield and Nottingham services (replacing 7 car 222s and 8 car HSTs) and single sets on the slow Nottingham and semi fast Sheffield services (replacing 4/5 car 222s)
The slow Nottingham is a 10-car at peak times. I doubt transferring the south-of-Kettering passengers to the electrics will be enough for it to be run as a 5-car all day. Some of the fast Nottinghams in the middle part of the day might scrape by with a 5-car.Personally I'd put double sets on the Fast Sheffield and Nottingham services (replacing 7 car 222s and 8 car HSTs) and single sets on the slow Nottingham and semi fast Sheffield services (replacing 4/5 car 222s)
<warning klaxon>
Anyone proposing such things needs to go and see what happened at Northern and LNR before even considering it.
</warning klaxon>
Anyone knowing the Midland knows the 70min turnround on the Nottingham fasts is excessive.
On the subject of the (seemingly, likely) transfer of the LNER HST seats (presumably reduced to 8 car); on another thread (which I remember but can't find) there was a suggestion, possibly never resolved, that the LNER sets do not have SDO, the only stations with short platforms being North of Edinburgh where some special arrangement is made.
If it true, this might be a snag on the MML , particularly on Sundays when HSTs are used on a variety of services, not just the fast Nottinghams; and there's engineering work (as an extreme case, the slow line platform at Wellingborough only takes 4 or 5 and I have caught HSTs from that platform during Sunday engineering work, in the past). I know that platforms are currently being lengthened, but will this all happen by 1.1.2020, when they need to arrive?
Sorry if I'm setting a hare away, but there's not much time left to fit them.
The current EMR HST fleet does not have SDO. Its always a bit risky on the Saturday late trains, especially Long Eaton!On the subject of the (seemingly, likely) transfer of the LNER HST seats (presumably reduced to 8 car); on another thread (which I remember but can't find) there was a suggestion, possibly never resolved, that the LNER sets do not have SDO, the only stations with short platforms being North of Edinburgh where some special arrangement is made.
If it true, this might be a snag on the MML , particularly on Sundays when HSTs are used on a variety of services, not just the fast Nottinghams; and there's engineering work (as an extreme case, the slow line platform at Wellingborough only takes 4 or 5 and I have caught HSTs from that platform during Sunday engineering work, in the past). I know that platforms are currently being lengthened, but will this all happen by 1.1.2020, when they need to arrive?
Sorry if I'm setting a hare away, but there's not much time left to fit them.
Thank you and Scott1 - (I don't know how to include 2 quotes) for tactfully pointing out a gap in my knowledge resulting in a flaw in the logic.The MML HSTs also don't have SDO, excepting the ex Grand Central sets.
Academic point surely, because they won’t have any 222s once their new fleet is in service.my personal theory on why they went 5 car instead of 9 or 10 car is because 5 car trains can also operate instead of 222s, 17 of the 27 EMR 222s are 5 car and the cars are roughly 23m, with end cars being 23.8m and middle cars being 22.8m, not an expert on EMR however so I don't know if the 222s regularly double up or not.
I read recently in a magazine (didn't buy it, so a bit hazy about which) that, because the St Pancras Bedford OLE is only 100 mph, until this is upgraded, the bi-modes will run on diesel on this stretch so that 125 mph can be achieved; switch to electric at Bedford; necessarily return to diesel at Kettering or Harborough; and then carry on (even to Sheffield!) on diesel.
Does this have any foundation?
If so, it's not MML electrification, but Northamptonshire electrification...
Market Harborough historically had short platforms but they are now full lengthThank you and Scott1 - (I don't know how to include 2 quotes) for tactfully pointing out a gap in my knowledge resulting in a flaw in the logic.
In my defence for this error; it is the case that, when travelling on EMR Inter City and its predecessors, there is a lot of announcements about coaches at the front or rear not being in the platform at the next station (though these may have been when I've been on a double Meridian, obviously longer than an HST). For a line that probably has the greatest number of short platforms of any Inter City line, it seems surprising that SDO is not used.
Something that slightly irritates me is that the announcement is always 'Passengers for X should not travel in coaches Y and Z' whereas the announcement, in my opinion, should be 'Passengers for X should not alight there from coaches Y and Z'. This might seem like splitting hairs, but, on occasions, the coaches in which passengers are instructed not to travel are all the first class coaches, at least in that part of the train!
I believe that won't be until 2023.The OLE is supposed to be upgraded south of Bedford
I read recently in a magazine (didn't buy it, so a bit hazy about which) that, because the St Pancras Bedford OLE is only 100 mph, until this is upgraded, the bi-modes will run on diesel on this stretch so that 125 mph can be achieved; switch to electric at Bedford; necessarily return to diesel at Kettering or Harborough; and then carry on (even to Sheffield!) on diesel.
Does this have any foundation?
If so, it's not MML electrification, but Northamptonshire electrification...
The literal interpretation of these reports seems to be that HSTs will continue until sometime in 2023, but that the retained sets will have toilet retention tanks fitted. Anyone know if this what is going to happen?
If you're referring to the sliding doors, there is a backlog as GWR, XC and ScotRail all need them doingIf they do stick around to 2023 why not just do what XC have done with their HST power cars and Mark IIIs?