Last BR train, headboard removed "for safety reasons" ! ? !

[37401]

Fair enough chief, I did mean to put a smillie after my other post to show it was a bit tongue in cheek but forgot , been there done that, had a tw4t really giving it the verbal once so just kept driving (it was a quiet trip) until he said please, think he ended up about a mile past his stop

hahaha, on the bus one morning this chavvy kid got on to see if his mates were on it and the driver shut the doors and started driving, the chav kept gobbing off and as he got off about 3 stops later he went "you're...dead!" he was about 1ft tall and about 5 years old hahaha safe to say we all gave the driver a thumbs up when we got off

 

[royaloak]

Bet the driver was laughing his head off!
Its always nice to get one over on the scummies instead of just taking it, coz yoo caint tutch me! true but I can keep on driving

One of the funniest was a chav jumped on and went straight down the back (single decker) without paying, I called him back and got the usual expletive riddled reply and ending with "what you gorna do coz I aint moving", so I replied niether am I, and switched the engine off. This 6ft4 brick outhouse came up to me and asked what the problem was (I was bricking myself ), explained about the bloke at the back, he went back put one hand around his neck, picked him up and threw him out the door, looked at me, winked and said okay now driver, I started the engine and off we toddled peeing ourselves laughing!

 

[Justin Smith]

One of the reasons I got enthused in the first place was the driver of a class 20 at Leuchars (waiting time for a path on the main line) letting me into his cab and to play on the controls. That kind of thing would never happen now

I have a similar story, which is described in more detail on the link below, about a driver at York depot who let a bunch of kids actually drive his class 40 ! Only for a short way but even so, how fantastic is that ! ! !
The thing is, as I say on the linked article, it was not a waste of his employers times and resources. I don't even want to start adding up how much I , and at least one other of the lads, have spent on train travel since then........

Have any others got similar stories ?

 

[37401]

Bet the driver was laughing his head off!
Its always nice to get one over on the scummies instead of just taking it, coz yoo caint tutch me! true but I can keep on driving

One of the funniest was a chav jumped on and went straight down the back (single decker) without paying, I called him back and got the usual expletive riddled reply and ending with "what you gorna do coz I aint moving", so I replied niether am I, and switched the engine off. This 6ft4 brick outhouse came up to me and asked what the problem was (I was bricking myself ), explained about the bloke at the back, he went back put one hand around his neck, picked him up and threw him out the door, looked at me, winked and said okay now driver, I started the engine and off we toddled peeing ourselves laughing!

on a late-ish bus home there was me and a few others on the way back from work and some chavs got on and ran upstairs without paying, the driver switched the engine off and another bus came up behind so they ran to get on that as did a few others from the bus, all but 3 of us got off and as we looked behind all we saw was the big tank of a guys fist and this chav went flying haha bet he wont try that again in a hurry

 

[the sniper]

Have any others got similar stories ?

Well, I have a cab ride story but it was done through official channels in 2005, Birmingham New Street to Crewe and back, on the way to Crewe the four of us, including the driver, were served with tea from the trolley while doing 100 mph up the West Coast Main Line. On the way back 5 of us crammed into the class 170 cab! This probably doesn't help your anti-modern days 'health and safety madness' rant though.

 

[Chris125]

I can't believe it would have happened even 5 years before though.

A large headboard hanging from a handrail isnt safe in service. The date is irrelevant.

Chris

 

[A60K]

From what I can see the headboard in this case was designed purely for commemorative photographic purposes, with no H&S prohibition coming into it.

 

[Dolive22]

As to the headboard, it now seems clear that it would have come off at some point if the train set off with it on, possibly going through the window. Much better for the board to end up in a museum or in an employees house than sitting in the four foot until it is removed (best case) or embedded in the last BR drivers skull (worst case).

As to H&S, my experience (in live music of all areas) is that H&S doesn't really get in the way. If anything, I have found it to be too lax. For example, members of the public can be exposed to sound levels that burn through the workers (daily) exposure limit in 30 seconds, and leave with tinnitus for three days. Never in four outdoor festivals and a number of indoor gigs has H&S got in the way of anything, although it got close a couple of times when contractors let us down, but that says more about the contractors than H&S.

Yes every 'H&S edict' has a cost, but it also has a benefit. For example, if I had used knee pads when I started my preferred extreme sport I wouldn't have an appointment this week with my doctor about my two bad knees. It is a question of the balance to be struck, so for example, as I fall much less now I don't use pads now.

It never seems to be the people who deal regularly the the HSE who complain about H&S. An engineer who was supervising a friend of mine when he got injured wasn't at all worried to find out his mother was a lawyer who used to work for the HSE. He would probably have been much more worried had I just said she was a lawyer.

 

[Justin Smith]

Well, I have a cab ride story but it was done through official channels in 2005, Birmingham New Street to Crewe and back, on the way to Crewe the four of us, including the driver, were served with tea from the trolley while doing 100 mph up the West Coast Main Line. On the way back 5 of us crammed into the class 170 cab! This probably doesn't help your anti-modern days 'health and safety madness' rant though.

How did you get that ?
Particularly these days that sounds almost incredible.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It never seems to be the people who deal regularly the the HSE who complain about H&S. An engineer who was supervising a friend of mine when he got injured wasn't at all worried to find out his mother was a lawyer who used to work for the HSE. He would probably have been much more worried had I just said she was a lawyer.

On the contrary. My business used to install aerials and you wouldn't believe the H&S rules on that, and most of the rulings were unworkable in the every day working environment. They were also inconsistent. Some said two men were required on every aerial install. That's ridiculous for two reasons. It's totally uneconomic sending two men on every aerial install, particularly if you're employing them. Second, what's the second man going to do if there's an accident anyway, catch the first bloke as he falls off the roof ? ! ?
What's really funny is my installers used to moan on to high heaven about "there should be two of us going out on every install", then, when they became self emloyed, they nearly always go out on their own !

 

[Peter Mugridge]

^^^^^

I have a similar story, but it's literally 25 years ago so in the more relaxed era. An Inspector fixed ( properly ) for me to ride in the cab of an HST out of KX; he said "It would only be until the first stop, though".

That wasn't a problem for me seeing as the train in question was the flying scotsman, which in those days ran non stop until Newcastle...

 

[Justin Smith]

Yes every 'H&S edict' has a cost, but it also has a benefit.

Obviously some, maybe even most, do. But many of them have minimal benefit, and out of all proportion to the costs/inconvenience.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

^^^^^

I have a similar story, but it's literally 25 years ago so in the more relaxed era. An Inspector fixed ( properly ) for me to ride in the cab of an HST out of KX; he said "It would only be until the first stop, though".

That wasn't a problem for me seeing as the train in question was the flying scotsman, which in those days ran non stop until Newcastle...

Lucky b*****d.
A Deltic would have been even better, though I can remember when the HSTs first came out and suddenly Deltics were of little interest, until they started withdrawing them.
I can recall being on Doncaster station on an EM Rover in about 1978 hoping against hope that the train I was about to catch would be an HST not a Deltic ! Incredible but true !

 

[ChrisCooper]

I think the media has a hell of a lot to answer for. Remember it's the same ones that will run the "H&S gone mad" or "PC gone mad" stories that will run the sensationalist stories whenever an accident happens, or how someones life was ruined by sexism, racism etc. Also the same ones who run the stories about how we're becoming a "police state" will run the sensationalist stories about ever possible terror threat and how every young person is into gangs and drugs, and every adult male is a child abuser or wife beater.

 

[Tom B]

On the contrary. My business used to install aerials and you wouldn't believe the H&S rules on that, and most of the rulings were unworkable in the every day working environment. They were also inconsistent. Some said two men were required on every aerial install. That's ridiculous for two reasons. It's totally uneconomic sending two men on every aerial install, particularly if you're employing them. Second, what's the second man going to do if there's an accident anyway, catch the first bloke as he falls off the roof ? ! ?!

So would you prefer, if your employee suffered an accident, to let them sit around unconscious or otherwise for any number of hours until they are found, or would you rather his colleague called for the ambulance service and gave him first aid?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think the media has a hell of a lot to answer for. Remember it's the same ones that will run the "H&S gone mad" or "PC gone mad" stories that will run the sensationalist stories whenever an accident happens, or how someones life was ruined by sexism, racism etc. Also the same ones who run the stories about how we're becoming a "police state" will run the sensationalist stories about ever possible terror threat and how every young person is into gangs and drugs, and every adult male is a child abuser or wife beater.

... and this is very true. The Daily Wail are very bad for this - last year they were screaming about the "SCANDAL : NOT ENOUGH SWINE FLU VACCINE", now they're whining about "SCANDAL : TOO MUCH SWINE FLU VACCINE".

 

[bluebottle]

On the same lines, this popped up in my recommended videos on Youtube yesterday http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqVJEZnYiZo

 

[tbtc]

The Daily Wail are very bad for this - last year they were screaming about the "SCANDAL : NOT ENOUGH SWINE FLU VACCINE", now they're whining about "SCANDAL : TOO MUCH SWINE FLU VACCINE".

That was both hillarious and frightening at the same time - I remember the headlines about "only 40 million vaccines - PANIC!!!", then now the hype has died down the government is criticised for wasting money.

Can you imagine the hysteria if a government minister had the guts to say "we'll only order a few thousand, just in case, don't want to panic buy"?

 

[Justin Smith]

I think the media has a hell of a lot to answer for. Remember it's the same ones that will run the "H&S gone mad" or "PC gone mad" stories that will run the sensationalist stories whenever an accident happens, or how someones life was ruined by sexism, racism etc. Also the same ones who run the stories about how we're becoming a "police state" will run the sensationalist stories about ever possible terror threat and how every young person is into gangs and drugs, and every adult male is a child abuser or wife beater.

How very true.

 

[90019]

... and this is very true. The Daily Wail are very bad for this - last year they were screaming about the "SCANDAL : NOT ENOUGH SWINE FLU VACCINE", now they're whining about "SCANDAL : TOO MUCH SWINE FLU VACCINE".

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1265277/Cancer-danger-night-time-trip-toilet.html
(I think mojo sent me that a couple of days ago)

Any bets what the next thing to cause cancer will be?

 

[Justin Smith]

So would you prefer, if your employee suffered an accident, to let them sit around unconscious or otherwise for any number of hours until they are found, or would you rather his colleague called for the ambulance service and gave him first aid?

This is an interesting point for a few reasons.
Are we saying that I'm to send a second man at a cost of £15 to £35 per hour (depending how you calculate it) just so, in the very unlikely event that one falls off, there'll be someone to phone an ambulance ?
It is actually very rare for an installer to fall off a roof, I can't remember when it last happened, certainly not to any of my installers in 10 years.
That said, the accident reporting argument was the excuse that my lads gave as to why they wanted a second man, though I think the real reason is they preferred working with someone, who doesn't ?
My response was that if they were working at height and felt there would be any danger of a serious accident they should only do the job if the customer was present. That was greeted with derision, but it's funny how, now they're self employed (and paying the bills themselves......) they almost always work on their own.
Yeah, it is funny that isn't it ? ! ?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Then you are not looking after your employee's appropriately under the HS@W act.

 

[the sniper]

How did you get that ?
Particularly these days that sounds almost incredible.

I just did it while I was on work experience with Central Trains, the only 'Health and Safety'/legal precaution was that I had to have a Driver Manger with me when I did my cab ride. Opportunities like that are great though. I know it's sad to say, but that was one of the best days of my life so far. I've wanted to be a train driver since I was one or two years old, but that day made me realise that I have to become a train driver, I just absolutely loved everything about it.

I really don't think it's impossible for someone to get a cab ride these days, you just have to do it though official channels. I know some TOC's won't do them though, as I've also done work experience with Chiltern Railways and they didn't allow them. I got to ride in the back cab with them though.

Btw, I said in my last post that my cab ride was done in 2005, it was actually 2004.

 

[Justin Smith]

Then you are not looking after your employee's appropriately under the HS@W act.

I don't do aerial installs any more, too much hassle.
So the installers are now self employed and probably breaking every H&S rule going, but they still (more than likely) won't fall off a roof........

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I just did it while I was on work experience with Central Trains, the only 'Health and Safety'/legal precaution was that I had to have a Driver Manger with me when I did my cab ride. Opportunities like that are great though. I know it's sad to say, but that was one of the best days of my life so far. I've wanted to be a train driver since I was one or two years old, but that day made me realise that I have to become a train driver, I just absolutely loved everything about it.

I really don't think it's impossible for someone to get a cab ride these days, you just have to do it though official channels. I know some TOC's won't do them though, as I've also done work experience with Chiltern Railways and they didn't allow them. I got to ride in the back cab with them though.

Btw, I said in my last post that my cab ride was done in 2005, it was actually 2004.

Ahh, you were working for them, that's cheating !

 

[the sniper]

Ahh, you were working for them, that's cheating !

Not really. A 14 year old on work experience with a train company doesn't really do much work. The closest I got to working was photocopying some drivers and guards timetables. The rest of the time was spent playing about on their full size train simulator, making announcements at Snow Hill, watching how timetables are made and listening to two guys comically swearing at each other (one always wore shorts and looked a little bit like Freddie Mercury) at the back of this little office where timetables were handed out to the drivers and guards at New Street. Great times!

And as I say, I'm sure if someone was to write to some TOC's with a nice letter nowadays, they'd probably get a cab ride from one of them.

 

[Justin Smith]

And as I say, I'm sure if someone was to write to some TOC's with a nice letter nowadays, they'd probably get a cab ride from one of them.

I`m afraid I don`t think that would be the case, unfortunately.
They`re not bothered about public relations these days, not real public relations.....

 

[Geezertronic]

I'm afraid I don't think that would be the case, unfortunately.
They're not bothered about public relations these days, not real public relations.....

What do you term as real public relations?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I term it as dealing with customer enquires, issues and problems. Not giving the odd person a cab ride.

 

[Justin Smith]

What do you term as real public relations?

I mean promoting a lifelong interest and enthusiasm for railways, like that driver did for me and my mates in York back in the 70s. That would never happen now, no chance, mores the pity. As far as I'm concerned that driver knew more about public relations than any of these graduates working for Virgin or whoever now.
I speculated earlier just how many of us who were young train spotters in the 70s would have become lifelong railway enthusiasts if the current attitudes had been prevailing then.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I term it as dealing with customer enquires, issues and problems. Not giving the odd person a cab ride.

See above.

 

[Greenback]

I've been interested in trains and railways for as long as I can remember, I've never had a cab ride, and I don't particularly feel I need or want one!

I see now that your hatred of H&S comes from what you see as red tape in your business that threatened to increase your costs. Fair enough, but the point is that employers should have a high regard for the safety of their employees, the self employed can make their own decisions as to what they consider too risky or dangerous. We do need to protect against the minority of employers who would tell their workers to go and do whatever, or look for another f*****g job.

 

[Geezertronic]

I mean promoting a lifelong interest and enthusiasm for railways, like that driver did for me and my mates in York back in the 70s. That would never happen now, no chance, mores the pity. As far as I'm concerned that driver knew more about public relations than any of these graduates working for Virgin or whoever now.
I speculated earlier just how many of us who were young train spotters in the 70s would have become lifelong railway enthusiasts if the current attitudes had been prevailing then.

Why should you expect anyone working in the railways to promote a lifelong interest and enthusiasm for railways? Your comments would seem that you expect it like it is your right?

At the end of the day, the railways are public transport. If you develop interest and enthusiasm over the years, then fair play to you but you cannot expect the railways to fit into your thinking and expectation. My interest and enthusiasm came from travelling on the railways and going to Duddeston yard (as then) to spot. My sons enthusiasm (8 & 10) come from travelling by rail, visiting places like Didcot and the NRM, and even the EWR setup at Kingsbury Water Park.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I never had a cab ride, but I was still interested in railways now. Having a cab ride now doesn't really fuel my interest at all.

If you really want one - why not pay for a footplate experience at your local heritage railway?

 

[Justin Smith]

Why should you expect anyone working in the railways to promote a lifelong interest and enthusiasm for railways?

Simple.
Because it's in their long term interest to do so.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

your hatred of H&S

I don't hate H&S, much of it is useful. However, most of the bits that are useful are bleedin' obvious anyway ! As far as I'm aware it used to be based on the concept of "reasonable", e.g. is it reasonable to expect an installer to fit an aerial on his own ? Answer : Yes it's reasonable.
QED