No, the cycle which starts with the 0551 Manchester Airport to Liverpool Lime Street is booked for two 2-car 195s - see https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/northern-class-195-initial-diagrams.185017/page-11#post-4151745
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Northern Class 195: Construction/Introduction Updates
- Thread starter Haydn1971
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No, the cycle which starts with the 0551 Manchester Airport to Liverpool Lime Street is booked for two 2-car 195s - see https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/northern-class-195-initial-diagrams.185017/page-11#post-4151745
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These seem to be hard coded. If the platform changes this information doesn't.
The 331s have the same problem at Ilkley.
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Bertie the bus
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That isn't the reason. I've only travelled on the Windermere branch on a 195 once and it got the side the platform was on wrong at 3 of the 4 stations. All stations on the line only have 1 platform.
The reason is because the PIS is woeful.
The reason is because the PIS is woeful.
We seem to be going around in circles here. Greybeard33's point was that there were no scheduled two-car workings to/from Manchester Airport. I subsequently stated that I was unsure about the 1435 Llandudno departure (TfW), as, until recently, it very definitely was booked for a 2-car (158, but could be a 150 in reality). 156420 said there is now a scheduled 195 duty on CLC stoppers on a Saturday, this duty incorporates the 2249 Airport - Liverpool semi-fast. He did not say if it was booked a 195/0 or 195/1, but on 28/12 it appears to have been a 195/0.
Clearly a two-car unit can substitute for anything else. As to what is scheduled to operate the Airport - Liverpool service, as JonathanH has said, above, the diagram which begins 0551 Airport - Liverpool is booked 2x195/0 (Monday to Friday only). The diagram starts later on a Sunday, but is still booked 2x195/0, on a Saturday it is booked a 195/1. This is my most recent information, which, I admit, is not all that recent. On Suns - Thurs the 2x195/0 splits into two single units prior to the last trip to the Airport, so there you have 195/0s going to the Airport, but arriving only, not departing. Another 195/0 arrival is 0337 Liverpool - Airport (Mon - Fri only). All other Airport semi-fasts are booked 195/1, except for three return journeys Mon - Fri which are booked 2x195/1.
There would rarely be a day when all journeys to/from the Airport featured their booked traction.
Clearly a two-car unit can substitute for anything else. As to what is scheduled to operate the Airport - Liverpool service, as JonathanH has said, above, the diagram which begins 0551 Airport - Liverpool is booked 2x195/0 (Monday to Friday only). The diagram starts later on a Sunday, but is still booked 2x195/0, on a Saturday it is booked a 195/1. This is my most recent information, which, I admit, is not all that recent. On Suns - Thurs the 2x195/0 splits into two single units prior to the last trip to the Airport, so there you have 195/0s going to the Airport, but arriving only, not departing. Another 195/0 arrival is 0337 Liverpool - Airport (Mon - Fri only). All other Airport semi-fasts are booked 195/1, except for three return journeys Mon - Fri which are booked 2x195/1.
There would rarely be a day when all journeys to/from the Airport featured their booked traction.
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To add, just because the 0551 ex-Airport is booked 4-car doesn't mean it can't possibly be covered by a 3-car, it often has been. In that situation either the 0337 ex-Liverpool, or the ECS working ex-Newton Heath, will be cancelled.
It's even been a 5-car, but probably, only the once.
It's even been a 5-car, but probably, only the once.
Grumpy Git
On Moderation
Pity Northern seem to think no one from Liverpool needs to get to the airport early on a Sunday morning though?
My usual £18.70 off-peak return will be a £55+ taxi ride tomorrow morning (plus the single fare home), what a joke!
Spartacus
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Not sure Sunday morning service levels (which with engineering work would be quite a challenge this Sunday) have much tom do with 195 introduction though, or am I missing something?
Units which are booked to lay over at outstations such as the unit at Chester have allowances built-in to the driver diagram now to allow the static brake test to be completed before it enters service for the day.
No countdown timer is available to us mere mortals, it can probably be accessed in the maintenance pages of the TCMS but we are still not deemed worthy of access to that.
National Express, 0410 from Liverpool One Bus Station, arrive Manchester Airport 0555, cost £4.00.
childwallblues
Established Member
I got on the 1516 LIV-MIA on Thursday which was 195010. By the time it left it was full and standing. I alighted at South Parkway and about 40 were waiting to board, some with cases. They all squeezed on so it must have been quite cosy.
So that was a 2-car 195/0 covering a journey which is actually diagrammed for a double 195/1, i.e. a 6-car set. It's been cancelled altogether on occasions just recently.
Northern are indeed very poor at ensuring the correct nunber of coaches they are booked for on 195 routes. On the 331 thread I've been tempering peoples' expectations about 6-coach services.
Additionally the problem with doubled 6-coach 195 services is that you'll find either the front or rear unit is overcrowded but the other unit is not which is counter-productive arrangement.
Can't help think Northern were overthinking this, in hindsight, they should have ordered 5 few 195/0s and upgraded 10 of the 195/1s into 4 coach 195/2s.
Additionally the problem with doubled 6-coach 195 services is that you'll find either the front or rear unit is overcrowded but the other unit is not which is counter-productive arrangement.
Can't help think Northern were overthinking this, in hindsight, they should have ordered 5 few 195/0s and upgraded 10 of the 195/1s into 4 coach 195/2s.
At peak times if the regulars could reliably expect 6 cars to turn up I’m sure they’d quickly start to make full use of them. 6 cars are an unexpected novelty on Northern’s network.
No, that would reduce flexibility around current and future use of the units. It is not the case that the 2-cars remain coupled all day.
By rights the 195s should be running diagrams that are semi-segregated from the rest of the fleet die to the 195s not having been risk-assessed on a lot of routes. The issues with short forming quite often come from the lack of availability of 195 units. There are a lot of them stood down with faults.
mspljd1990
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So if they're using the 195s on the Leeds to Lincoln/Nottingham routes, and the Calder Valley routes, both of which are traditional 158 territory, does that mean there will be a reduction of 158s in the Leeds area, or will they fill in for routes where 142s/144s/150s have been used? Or will they just rotate the two?
northernchris
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158s have been cascaded on to former pacer routes, such as Leeds - Lancaster, Leeds - Knottingley and both the Leeds - Sheffield routes. There's not enough 195s available yet to fully convert the Lincoln and Nottingham services, so will be interesting to see where the remaining displaced 158s will be used
mspljd1990
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A lot of those routes used 150s when Pacers weren't being used, so does this mean that 150s are on their way out?
No. Not for a long while yet.
superkev
Established Member
195 005 and 006 are parked in Huddersfield sidings so driver training must be resuming.
I wonder how far Northern are into there new train training program
k
I wonder how far Northern are into there new train training program
k
Mordac
Established Member
I'm sure Newton Heath's got the gaffa tape ready.
Grumpy Git
On Moderation
Transparent gaffer tape, now there's a thought!
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Well, if Guinness can come up with a clear version of their iconic drink, then the manufacturers of gaffer tape could follow with a clear version...
I’e finally been getting 195S Chesterfield-Sheffield in the morning and the PIS has been a station behind 3 days in a row. Yesterday the guard rebooted it after Dronfield and it sorted itself out. This morning it was off when I got on the train, it briefly came on to announce ‘This is Dronfield’ (at Chesterfield) before going off again. When it came back on again the screens reckoned the next station was Ilkeston but the voice seemed to be off
I expect this is due to passengers not trusting 6 carriages to turn up, and positioning themselves on the part of the platform most likely to receive a unit, so they can maximise their chances of getting on.
When I was last at Manchester Oxford Road I saw that their display boards seemed to show a graphic of the number of carriages, but I am not sure how many people notice that/can see it/trust it versus the consequences of being stood in the wrong place when a two carriage train pulls up.
At stations such as this, it could be helpful if the platform staff were switched from "stand behind the line" mode to "the next train is 6 carriages, please use the full length of the platform" vocalisation mode.
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