West Lothian buses

[TheGrandWazoo]

Assuming with decent certainty that Lothian is run like any other shareholder business that aims to generate profit...

Edinburgh Council will not dictate Lothian strategy. They'll have board representation, probably proportional to their large shareholding so to say they aren't happy with the LCB effort is unlikely - they would have voted it through in the first place. The board would have approved a business plan that would factor their plans, including we can assume multi year losses and long term strategy to bring the operation to profit. Now there is a decent chance the figures in that business case aren't stacking up any longer and the investment and strategy probably has and will get called into question.

Major shareholder companies tend not to make massive changes whilst undertaking changes of upper management, they tend to keep doing what they are doing, and make no major changes. This allows new management to come in, review activities - what should we stop doing, what should we continue doing, and what should we start doing.

Any of those options would then be presented to the board in the form of a revised, or totally new business case and at that stage your talking about decisions along the line of "stop LCB" "continue through with LCB" or "let's try something different with LCB"

So I think to suggest substantial sudden change is not only unhelpful speculation it's also not grounded in reality.

Some really good points.

Clearly the shareholders will have had some visibility of the expansion plans and that they will have included the start up costs and projections of revenue/cost performance including losses for a considerable period. As you rightly say, if actual performance is diverging from projected adversely (and by a margin) then you would expect strategy to be questioned and evaluated as to how and why, and what will be the next steps.

That Richard Hall is leaving in the manner in which he is does raise questions about current performance and the strategy. I doubt it will be some ripping up of it because the investment (commercially and emotionally) by both the management team and the shareholders. Certainly, you can see some drawing of the horns (and we've already seen that) and that there will be changes; to continue to do the same thing evokes the famous Einstein quote. Depending on the impact of BBT (and what the next phase will consist of) will also be focusing minds.

Personally, I hate the partisan crowing on both sides. The people who think this is some pre-cursor to LCB's imminent retraction are equally as misguided as those who think that people from Wester Inch are going to be massively swayed by the ability to seamlessly transfer to Oxgangs. Whilst this is a public forum where strongly held views can be held, they should be reasoned and respectful.

 

[oldman]

I wonder to what extent the new acting boss is behind the recent expansions (LCB, LMC). As business development manager, then commercial director, he ought to have been heavily involved. Will he stand by these projects or try and blame Hall - I was only obeying orders.

There should be no doubt Edinburgh council wants to increase its control and it's difficult to see why they should care about West Lothian:

Better alignment of strategic business planning and operational management of the Council owned transport companies with the city’s transport travel policy and programmes needs to be accelerated if the foundation for a transformational change is to be laid securely.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I wonder to what extent the new acting boss is behind the recent expansions (LCB, LMC). As business development manager, then commercial director, he ought to have been heavily involved. Will he stand by these projects or try and blame Hall - I was only obeying orders.

There should be no doubt Edinburgh council wants to increase its control and it's difficult to see why they should care about West Lothian:

As others have said, the management team were apparently as one in pursuing the strategy.

One interesting question is whether when they did the strategy, what did they think First's response would be? I don't think anyone on this board was suggesting First entering the tours market.

 

[overthewater]

I have to agree with TGW, the partisan on this isn't great, and thus most people can't see the fuller picture. I do think comments saying people are "Gleeful" are not right, and somewhat disrespectful. People are not dancing around a fire chanting hoping for job losses or companies to fail. The Sad truth is the current situation is not tenable, and can not carry, something will need to give. No one on here is saying LCB will suddenly disappear or closedown tomorrow. The earliest anyone suggested was August which is six months away that is not sudden.

People keep on saying "I see busy buses" that may will be the case but LCB is still making a lose.. Fro the latest service change there are cuts.. just look at the city routes like the 26 etc it's clear they want to get more passengers on the green buses.

LCB business plan clearly is a pile of cack, its cleary wrong in some parts, the management team cleary overestimated its operations, while clearly under estimating first response. It looks like LCB believe it could walk into West lothian and people would come running to them as some of messiah, not matter what it did. Its also clear, it believe first might not bother to retaliate, or if it did it would have been in a different manner. Its clear First entering the tours market was not on ours or theirs radar. How much damage has that really created for lothian and has that exacerbate the loses? The routes it started with, were cleary parlty wrong, again believing First had given up on a good routes, well look at the X27 now, it's now going to completely different destination. Why did it believe it did not need a proper weekly ticket for people?

What sort of a business plan would create such misgivings? That is the truth, LCB were so misguided from the start. IF it had done things differently maybe it would be a completely different situation

I'm not happy with either company, but thankfully this bus war has resulted in First having to up its game, and revise the network. I expect better of Lothian, which I believe it why some of us are disappointed at the current situation. FIrst have been lampooed for years and yet still can't get rid.

The losses are alot worse than anyone must have expected, LCB and the loss of tour money. How the new MD responde will be interesting, I think LCB will be cut back at some point during the summer but the routes into edinburgh will be one that will be kepts until the very end.

I still think LCB has a chance if there started a new route to North Edinburgh and clamped on to the 200? ie there bus every 15mins from Ingliston P&R to the like of Granton etc

 

[PaulMc7]

As a neutral it's definitely an interesting battle with a lot more twists to come. Don't think many can say what will come next. First were always going to step up when pushed by Lothian and there's definitely allegiances on here to a particular company. Feel sorry for the staff of both companies as ultimately it's them that will lose out as a result of decision making from above depending on what occurs

 

[Jordan Adam]

I have to agree with TGW, the partisan on this isn't great, and thus most people can't see the fuller picture. I do think comments saying people are "Gleeful" are not right, and somewhat disrespectful. People are not dancing around a fire chanting hoping for job losses or companies to fail. The Sad truth is the current situation is not tenable, and can not carry, something will need to give. No one on here is saying LCB will suddenly disappear or closedown tomorrow. The earliest anyone suggested was August which is six months away that is not sudden.

Agree... Hence why i said the other day i think some people on here misinterpret comments. No one is wishing for LCB to go, and no one is saying they'll go tomorrow. I suggested August because it would give them the drivers and vehicles to cover for the Fringe, as you say that's still 6 months away so not soon, but still if LCB were to go i'd expect it to be later in the year.

I wonder to what extent the new acting boss is behind the recent expansions (LCB, LMC). As business development manager, then commercial director, he ought to have been heavily involved. Will he stand by these projects or try and blame Hall - I was only obeying orders.

There should be no doubt Edinburgh council wants to increase its control and it's difficult to see why they should care about West Lothian:

This is the thing though, a new MD and reformed management team 'may' have a different direction they want to go. The MD on their own can be pretty influential to the direction of the company. I do think much of it will come down to Edinburgh Council as they'll likely want to try and get a MD in who aligns with their ideas and visions. It also depends on how well their business plan has been going, which when you put all the bits of the puzzle together it does appear the answer is "not to plan".

It's a bit depressing to see the usual suspects gleefully predicting the end of LCB. Loadings on the X38 have been very healthy recently, and I for one really hope it survives. It's vastly superior to the shoddy vehicles First turn out, the integration with the trams and other Lothian services is really handy, the buses are much more comfortable and better maintained, and the staff are nicer too.

First have treated their customers with contempt for years, and their network in Edinburgh is now so small it's pretty much useless.

It's a bit depressing to see the usual suspects can't differentiate between having a discussion and facts. No one is gleefully predicting LCB will shut up shop.

However you have to look at the bigger picture. Lothian when launching LCB would've had a business plan, and in that they would have expected a loss, no one is doubting this and i think all can agree that this has been the case (because it was expected). However with a business plan it's often based on the financial situation of the company, and while they do factor in potential changes further down the line they can't predict the future and can't 100% know if that plan will work. At Lothian it seems pretty evident to me that there's been a big shift in the company financially, looking at their most recent accounts (which were during the time LCB was set up) there was a major fall in profits. Given that the MD has departed at the end of the financial year when they would've been filing the accounts it doesn't give me much hope for any improvement in 2019. If the company has made a loss, then in order to recover they'll have to make cut backs, no one knows what these will be however common sense would dictate that the parts of the company making the most significant losses (LCB and LMC) are the parts that they axe or cut back. So again, no one is gleefully predicting the end for LCB. However 'if' (and i reiterate the if) what seems apparent is the case, then it does appear the future of LCB and possibly LMC are up for question.

As others have said, the management team were apparently as one in pursuing the strategy.

One interesting question is whether when they did the strategy, what did they think First's response would be? I don't think anyone on this board was suggesting First entering the tours market.

This is a good point, i think it should be said that there's a difference between having 'a strategy' and having a strategy that actually works. No one (myself included) would've anticipated 18 months ago that First would've expanded their presence in West Lothian and entered the tours market post LCB launching. As much as i didn't agree with the business strategy of Lothian at the time, i did think (back then) that it would be successful and First would've cut back sooner. However soon later it became apparent that that wasn't going to be the case and it clearly hasn't. There's been multiple shortfalls at LCB which i don't see the need to go through as they've been mentioned a million times on here, however to summarise it does seem that "Halls plan hasn't went to plan".

 

[Journeyman]

Do we know if Bright Bus Tours are making much of an impact on Lothian's business? I'm not personally convinced it will have much effect. Clearly First will make money out of it, but it seems to me that the market for tours in Edinburgh is huge, and there's probably a lot of room for growth.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Do we know if Bright Bus Tours are making much of an impact on Lothian's business? I'm not personally convinced it will have much effect. Clearly First will make money out of it, but it seems to me that the market for tours in Edinburgh is huge, and there's probably a lot of room for growth.

Whenever i've been down loading's on BBT and CS have been pretty 50/50. So no doubt that there's been an impact, how much of an impact really depends on what growth there has been, however even then there is the strong and valid argument that any BBT passenger was a potential Lothian passenger.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Do we know if Bright Bus Tours are making much of an impact on Lothian's business? I'm not personally convinced it will have much effect. Clearly First will make money out of it, but it seems to me that the market for tours in Edinburgh is huge, and there's probably a lot of room for growth.

I'm sorry but you're not getting it. No one is saying that Lothian is now running an unprofitable tours operation.

However, for every passenger that BBT get, than that's money that Lothian aren't making!!

So if BBT are taking an average 300 people per day at £15/head, that's £1.5m p.a. almost pure potential profit that they are denying Lothian's. It's been a very shrewd move by First.

 

[Journeyman]

I'm sorry but you're not getting it. No one is saying that Lothian is now running an unprofitable tours operation.

However, for every passenger that BBT get, than that's money that Lothian aren't making!!

So if BBT are taking an average 300 people per day at £15/head, that's £1.5m p.a. almost pure potential profit that they are denying Lothian's. It's been a very shrewd move by First.

I don't think you understand me. That's only denied profit to Lothian if the tours business isn't growing. It could be that a number of those passengers would otherwise have used a Lothian tour, but given the silly numbers of tourists in Edinburgh these days, I suspect there's room for a lot more capacity, and that overall the tours business will continue to expand, if the right mix of products is on offer.

I wondered if there was any evidence to suggest where BBT's business is coming from, be it stealing off Lothian, new business, or a combination of both.

 

[Driver362]

It's fairly easy to see where it comes from. They sell tickets in the same manner as Lothian and oparate on some similar if not same routes at a much reduced ticket prices. Folks on a budget and canny wi money folks are gony choose BBT. Folks who are swayed with fancy buses or not concerned about budget will go with Lothian. Put it this way if we at LC were to run around West lothian with a max £1 fare and £2 max to Edinburgh our patronage would go up dramatically. It would therefore be easy to see where that business came from.

 

[tbtc]

It looks like LCB believe it could walk into West lothian and people would come running to them as some of messiah, not matter what it did

I don't think that anyone is suggesting this, other than a few enthusiasts who are using it as a stick to try to beat Lothian with (because things didn't work out as amazingly as some straw-man prediction).

It's like when I see people write that Lothian have "failed" in not attracting a certain type of passenger or whatever - none of us know what their medium term plan was for West Lothian - it may be three years of losses, it may be five years of losses, it may have just been a "poisoned pill" to stop other companies sniffing around LB (some companies will enter into seemingly loss making/complicated add-on business to try to make themselves less attractive to predators).

None of us know (but some people do keep suggesting that Lothian had some unfeasible targets, and therefore we can complain that they have failed to reach these, even though that was never in their plan).

Similarly, there seems a lot of assumption that the writing is on the wall because of the way that they've rejigged some routes - even though some areas have seen improvements and others cuts - I think too many people are trying to state that the glass is half full/half empty here (just like there may be a number of reasons why one person would leave their job, some personal, but there's an amazing amount of speculation attached to it).

Still to early to tell IMHO.

I'm sorry but you're not getting it. No one is saying that Lothian is now running an unprofitable tours operation.

However, for every passenger that BBT get, than that's money that Lothian aren't making!!

So if BBT are taking an average 300 people per day at £15/head, that's £1.5m p.a. almost pure potential profit that they are denying Lothian's. It's been a very shrewd move by First.

Well, that's assuming that every passenger on BBT is one who'd have paid the higher fares on the Lothian services and hasn't just been attracted to a tour by the bright/garish* buses offering bargain/unsustainable* fares - it may be that everyone on a BBT service would ordinarily have paid for the higher priced Lothian one, but it may be that half of their market are people attracted to a cheaper incumbent who'd never have considered the "bells and whistles" of the full price Lothian experience.

Similarly, not every passenger on a Lothian service in Livingston is someone who'd have used the First service a year or two ago - competition ought to grow the market - there are some tourists in Edinburgh who'll pay silly money but there are also some tourists who'll use a cheap tour for the novelty but wouldn't have shelled out mega-money for what Lothian provide.

(* - depending on whether you are a fan of one company or the other!)

 

[lastbus]

I don't think that anyone is suggesting this, other than a few enthusiasts who are using it as a stick to try to beat Lothian with (because things didn't work out as amazingly as some straw-man prediction).

It's like when I see people write that Lothian have "failed" in not attracting a certain type of passenger or whatever - none of us know what their medium term plan was for West Lothian - it may be three years of losses, it may be five years of losses, it may have just been a "poisoned pill" to stop other companies sniffing around LB (some companies will enter into seemingly loss making/complicated add-on business to try to make themselves less attractive to predators).

None of us know (but some people do keep suggesting that Lothian had some unfeasible targets, and therefore we can complain that they have failed to reach these, even though that was never in their plan).

Similarly, there seems a lot of assumption that the writing is on the wall because of the way that they've rejigged some routes - even though some areas have seen improvements and others cuts - I think too many people are trying to state that the glass is half full/half empty here (just like there may be a number of reasons why one person would leave their job, some personal, but there's an amazing amount of speculation attached to it).

Still to early to tell IMHO.



Well, that's assuming that every passenger on BBT is one who'd have paid the higher fares on the Lothian services and hasn't just been attracted to a tour by the bright/garish* buses offering bargain/unsustainable* fares - it may be that everyone on a BBT service would ordinarily have paid for the higher priced Lothian one, but it may be that half of their market are people attracted to a cheaper incumbent who'd never have considered the "bells and whistles" of the full price Lothian experience.

Similarly, not every passenger on a Lothian service in Livingston is someone who'd have used the First service a year or two ago - competition ought to grow the market - there are some tourists in Edinburgh who'll pay silly money but there are also some tourists who'll use a cheap tour for the novelty but wouldn't have shelled out mega-money for what Lothian provide.

(* - depending on whether you are a fan of one company or the other!)

I would disagree with you when you say the BBT fare is unsustainable.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I don't think you understand me. That's only denied profit to Lothian if the tours business isn't growing. It could be that a number of those passengers would otherwise have used a Lothian tour, but given the silly numbers of tourists in Edinburgh these days, I suspect there's room for a lot more capacity, and that overall the tours business will continue to expand, if the right mix of products is on offer.

I wondered if there was any evidence to suggest where BBT's business is coming from, be it stealing off Lothian, new business, or a combination of both.

No - that's incorrect. If the tours market is growing at 5% p.a. and that growth is shared equally between Lothian and BBT, then you have the either Lothian getting either 2.5% or 5% growth, and that has a clear monetary value.

@tbtc does raise the question as to whether the lower fares offered by BBT are stimulating the market and attracting passengers who would not ordinarily pay the higher Lothian fares. Price sensitivity is a legitimate point but I'd suspect that BBT are taking trade that would ordinarily go to Lothian.

 

[tbtc]

I would disagree with you when you say the BBT fare is unsustainable.

I'm just saying "bright/garish" and "bargain/unsustainable" to try to stay neutral on this fairly heated topic - trying not to take sides!

@tbtc does raise the question as to whether the lower fares offered by BBT are stimulating the market and attracting passengers who would not ordinarily pay the higher Lothian fares. Price sensitivity is a legitimate point but I'd suspect that BBT are taking trade that would ordinarily go to Lothian.

I'm not saying for definite, but I'm sure that Lothian will have attracted some people to buses in West Lothian who wouldn't have used the (old) First services and First will have attracted some people to tours round Edinburgh who wouldn't have used the (old) Lothian services - since BBT are branded for the more "price conscious" tourist, there must be some kind of gap in the market for passengers willing to pay First prices but not Lothian prices.

For example, the Lothian tours are probably great if you have all day to spend on buses getting an immersive Edinburgh experience, but for people who just have an hour or two for a hurl around (and, most importantly, to take plenty of pictures to show their Instagram pals that they were on an open top bus), First appear to offer something more suitable (and I'm sure that not *all* of those people on First services are ones who used Lothian in previous years)

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I'm just saying "bright/garish" and "bargain/unsustainable" to try to stay neutral on this fairly heated topic - trying not to take sides!



I'm not saying for definite, but I'm sure that Lothian will have attracted some people to buses in West Lothian who wouldn't have used the (old) First services and First will have attracted some people to tours round Edinburgh who wouldn't have used the (old) Lothian services - since BBT are branded for the more "price conscious" tourist, there must be some kind of gap in the market for passengers willing to pay First prices but not Lothian prices.

For example, the Lothian tours are probably great if you have all day to spend on buses getting an immersive Edinburgh experience, but for people who just have an hour or two for a hurl around (and, most importantly, to take plenty of pictures to show their Instagram pals that they were on an open top bus), First appear to offer something more suitable (and I'm sure that not *all* of those people on First services are ones who used Lothian in previous years)

I'd be fairly confident that any organic market growth in West Lothian is quite low.

As regards the tours business, I do think you have a very valid point. Even if BBT are genuinely growing the market with their most cost focused offering, I reckon there's every chance that they are denying quite a few £15 fares to Lothian.

 

[mb88]

It's been accepted from the word go that LCB is unlikely to make a profit within the first 5 years. Significant amounts of money have been invested in BUYING outright the premises at Deans and the associated costs of installing engineering facilities, bus wash etc. Anyone suggesting they are going to simply give up before that 5 years is out, and as early as this summer in some cases, is living in cloud cuckoo land. And before anyone starts I have no allegiance whatsoever to Lothian. Yes they pay my wages but that's it. Similarly I have nothing against First whatsoever. What I will say and I'm sure we can all agree on this is that the market in West Lothian is simply not big enough to sustain the level of service provision in place currently. I strongly suspect some kind of agreement has already taken place with First withdrawing from Kirknewton and LCB withdrawing from Fauldhouse, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I strongly suspect some kind of agreement has already taken place with First withdrawing from Kirknewton and LCB withdrawing from Fauldhouse, but that's just my opinion.

I doubt that's the case.... The market is so small to those places that it makes little difference to either operator.

 

[Journeyman]

I doubt that's the case.... The market is so small to those places that it makes little difference to either operator.

I'd imagine in both places that regular travellers to Edinburgh will find the train a much better option, especially given that the Shotts line has just been electrified.

 

[ScotRail158725]

I'd imagine in both places that regular travellers to Edinburgh will find the train a much better option, especially given that the Shotts line has just been electrified.

definately

 

[Jordan Adam]

I'd imagine in both places that regular travellers to Edinburgh will find the train a much better option, especially given that the Shotts line has just been electrified.

Indeed. I suspect the only real demand from Fauldhouse is for within West Lothian, hence why First don't have a service to Edinburgh anymore and the X17 didn't really get any Edinburgh - Fauldhouse passengers. Kirknewton (area) population is only just over 2K, so even without the train passenger numbers would've been fairly low. The reasons for First pulling out of Kirknewton and LCB from Fauldhouse seem pretty clear and logical.

Perhaps Fauldhouse would've been better served by extending the X18 as much of the areas covered by the X18 don't have a direct link to Fauldhouse (If you exclude the current X17).

 

[Journeyman]

Indeed. I suspect the only real demand from Fauldhouse is for within West Lothian, hence why First don't have a service to Edinburgh anymore and the X17 didn't really get any Edinburgh - Fauldhouse passengers. Kirknewton (area) population is only just over 2K, so even without the train passenger numbers would've been fairly low. The reasons for First pulling out of Kirknewton and LCB from Fauldhouse seem pretty clear and logical.

Perhaps Fauldhouse would've been better served by extending the X18 as much of the areas covered by the X18 don't have a direct link to Fauldhouse (If you exclude the current X17).

Yeah, Fauldhouse to Edinburgh by bus is incredibly slow, and I doubt any commuter would want to spend that much of their time sitting on buses when trains are so much quicker. Most people travelling to shops etc. would probably only use the bus as far as Livingston, where The Centre is well served by buses but a long way from the stations.

No point in providing services no-one is going to use, is there?

 

[Jordan Adam]

Yeah, Fauldhouse to Edinburgh by bus is incredibly slow, and I doubt any commuter would want to spend that much of their time sitting on buses when trains are so much quicker. Most people travelling to shops etc. would probably only use the bus as far as Livingston, where The Centre is well served by buses but a long way from the stations.

No point in providing services no-one is going to use, is there?

Indeed, the X17 always seemed an odd move to me, especially given that at the time there was no link to Edinburgh from the Blackburn/Whitburn corridor (now covered by the X22 and X27). They probably would've been better keeping the 281 as it was, extending the X18 to Fauldhouse and have the then new X17 go to Whitburn via Blackburn in place of the 275.

It is quite pleasing to me as the lack of Edinburgh - Livingston - Blackburn - Whitburn link is something i've banged on about for ages, and finally both operators now offer such links! It was a clear market that was being missed out, especially given that the corridor isn't connected to the rail network.

 

[Journeyman]

It is quite pleasing to me as the lack of Edinburgh - Livingston - Blackburn - Whitburn link is something i've banged on about for ages, and finally both operators now offer such links! It was a clear market that was being missed out, especially given that the corridor isn't connected to the rail network.

Ultimately, if they're going to survive and do well, that's what they should focus on. West Lothian's railways are pretty decent now and will always offer an advantage in terms of speed and comfort. The bus operators need to focus on effectively serving the market that doesn't have a rail alternative.

 

[Driver362]

Indeed, the X17 always seemed an odd move to me, especially given that at the time there was no link to Edinburgh from the Blackburn/Whitburn corridor (now covered by the X22 and X27). They probably would've been better keeping the 281 as it was, extending the X18 to Fauldhouse and have the then new X17 go to Whitburn via Blackburn in place of the 275.

It is quite pleasing to me as the lack of Edinburgh - Livingston - Blackburn - Whitburn link is something i've banged on about for ages, and finally both operators now offer such links! It was a clear market that was being missed out, especially given that the corridor isn't connected to the rail network.

If your talking about X27 providing that link I can't say I have picked up anyone on that section going to Edinburgh. Most are just old 275 pax going to the centre. I would put that in the waste of diesel categorie along with Fauldhouse and Kirknewton. The latter two a pain to drive too for no one!. Along with anything after 8p.m or there abouts. With both operator's running around West lothian with empty buses. Absolute nonsense!

 

[Baileygirl]

Livingston has a lot of industrial estates with no or very little bus services going through them. A lot of people took the First X23 from Craigshill to Houston but that has also been axed. Sky/Cadence has a lot of offices and the traffic going there is horrendous in the mornings but yet no bus services now except the First 600 and 21. I have always thought there was plenty of potential to these places over the years, but no one seems to bother to test the waters to these or the other industrial estates. Therefore the car is essential if you work there.

 

[Jordan Adam]

More expansion for FSE...

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman....r-two-edinburgh-bus-services-go-first-2004305

Lothian buses hand £3.5m in council subsidy to rivals after two Edinburgh bus services go to First

Lothian will no longer operate the 20 and 63 services in Edinburgh
Lothian Buses have been slammed by councillors after failing to win two subsidised bus routes deemed essential by Edinburgh City Council.

The council owned bus operator will no longer run the 20 and 63 services after deciding to not take part in a council tender process for at least one of the routes.

It means nearly £3.5m of council subsidy money will go to First Scotland rather than back into council coffers, with any profit also going to private hands rather than public.


The contracts for running the number 20 and 63 routes are just under £2m and £1.5m respectively for their full term including extensions.


Council supported routes are services which would otherwise be commercially unviable, but are deemed essential by a local authority to residents.

The council received one tender for the 20 service and two for the 63, both of which used to be run by Lothian buses, and awarded both contracts to privately owned First.

The decision was slammed by Liberal Democrat spokesman Kevin Lang who described the bus company as “increasingly obsessed with core money spinning routes”.

He said: “It’s astonishing that Lothian Buses has turned its back on these lifeline routes.



“This is the council’s own bus company showing shameless disinterest in providing services identified as essential for some of our more isolated communities.

“It’s symptomatic of a company increasingly obsessed with core money spinning routes whilst taking on other bus operators outside of Edinburgh. Meanwhile, people need a company which focuses on ensuring all parts of Edinburgh are properly served with decent public transport and a more diverse route network.

“We know from this week that Lothian will get a change of leadership. This needs to herald a change of attitude too.”

Concerns over the impact on passengers was also raised by Green councillor Claire Miller who said the decision could lead to passengers spending more due to a lack of ticket integration with the rest of the Lothian network.



She said: “Lothian Buses has missed a trick by not bidding for these supported bus service contracts.

“People find it convenient to use one pass or ticket from Lothian Buses to jump on any bus or tram, and it’s a real shame that they won’t have that option.

“I’m sure the local communities will be disappointed to hear that Lothian Buses did not even enter a bid to serve them.”

A Council spokesperson said: “The Council has undertaken a competitive tender process to secure best value using its bus service framework contract, which has seven operators including Lothian.



“In line with procurement regulations, the returned bids have been assessed on cost and quality and recommendations for contract awards are contained in a report which will be considered by members of the Finance and Resources Committee next week.”

Lothian buses were contacted for comment.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

So Lothian are officially no longer servicing Ratho, I can tell folk with ridacards will no longer be happy,

 

[Jordan Adam]

So Lothian are officially no longer servicing Ratho, I can tell folk with ridacards will no longer be happy,

At least we know how they plan to replace some of the B7RLEs.... Will be interesting to see what First use on the routes.

Surprised it's not been mentioned on here yet but First have a major fares revision next month with pretty much every price reduced. They've also got a new "Edinburgh City Zone" ticket...

https://www.firstgroup.com/south-ea...dates/planned-changes/first-west-lothian-fare

First West Lothian is to cut its fares on a range of bus tickets from Sunday, 15 March.
Residents are set to save up to £240 on an annual ticket and £6 a week on weekly ticket.

Thousands of bus users across West Lothian will see the price of their tickets either reduce or freeze when the changes come into effect. Customers who purchase some of the most popular ticket types will enjoy substantial savings. For those travelling within West Lothian (Zones L + M), the main highlights are:

• Adult annual ticket reduced by £240 (from £820 to £580)
• Adult 4-weekly ticket reduced by £27 (from £82 to £55)
• Student 4-weekly ticket reduced by £27.10 (from £74.10 to £47)
• Adult weekly ticket reduced by £6 (from £24 to £18)
• First Unlimited ticket reduced by £21.70 per month (from £68.40 to £46.70)
• Family Day Tickets reduced by £4.50 (from £14 to £9.50)

Prices have also fallen for those travelling locally in the Edinburgh or Livingston zones. For example:

• Family Day Tickets reduced by £2.50 (from £12 to £9.50)
• Adult annual ticket reduced by £50 (from £630 to £580)
• First Unlimited ticket reduced by £21.70 per month (from £68.40 to £46.70)

Graeme Macfarlan, Commercial Director for First Scotland East, said: “From 15th March, travel by First West Lothian will be better value than ever before. As well as rewarding our loyal customers, we are keen to encourage more people to opt for leaving their car at home. These price drops reflect our commitment to residents in West Lothian, for whom cost effective public transport is a vital part of everyday life. We are putting them first with this decision.”

The region’s largest bus operator is also simplifying its fare structure. The change will see all Adult Single fares start from just £1.70 and Child singles from just 90p. All weekly, monthly and annual tickets will now also have the same price for 2-zone travel in West Lothian as it is for one. This means customers can now enjoy unlimited travel to and from Edinburgh for the same price as their local travel ticket in and around Livingston.

Graeme McFarlan added: “Simplifying our fare structure is an important step. We were particularly keen to make two-zone travel more appealing, and better value. Given you can now travel in two zones for the price of one, it has never been easier to travel with the bus in West Lothian.”

 

[ScotRail158725]

At least we know how they plan to replace some of the B7RLEs.... Will be interesting to see what First use on the routes.

Surprised it's not been mentioned on here yet but First have a major fares revision next month with pretty much every price reduced. They've also got a new "Edinburgh City Zone" ticket...

https://www.firstgroup.com/south-ea...dates/planned-changes/first-west-lothian-fare

could this be an indicator of a more long term plan for first?