Coronavirus.

[DarloRich]

Social distancing is not working. Look at the comments here and the media reports of behaviour this weekend. More needs to be done. Now. People have to be forced to behave. Why are we waiting?


Also how supine are the reporters? Attack the man and his wibble. Come back at Johnson. Attack. Challenge. Dont swallow his bull.

The medical advisor also dodged a question on death graphs. Challenge none answers.

Also the message should be stay at home. Not stay at home if you possibly can. Khan has this right. Johnson doesnt.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Apparently yesterday the NHS "struck a deal" with private hospitals to be able to use their beds & facilities should they be needed. I thought this was a national emergency, the government can shut down businesses, confine people to their homes, but has to ask nicely to secure the use of private health facilities?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51989183

We need as much hospital capacity as possible. A lot of non-urgent, but necessary work will be carried out in private hospitals to free up much-needed capacity in our NHS hospitals.

But this is being done "at cost". Resources and services need to be sourced and paid for along with the staff to run them

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Why is it also sensible for shops to open early for NHS workers? There are thousands of them all turning up at supermarkets at once! How many ill doctors and nurses can we survive with.

Many front-line NHS staff work shifts too, you know. It's not just railway employees. Very useful for those early starts or those coming off night duty

 

[Darandio]

Despite all the calls for people to stay at home in an effort to stop spreading the virus, planes are landing every day from the countries that have been the worst hit and although they are told to self isolate, judging by the behaviour we are seeing you can bet they aren't. Madness.

 

[Domh245]

I'm half thinking about taking all mine off, it'll be grown back by the time I need to go anywhere!

I was planning on getting my hair cut when I went back to London over easter, but that's not happening now! Good thing I've always wondered how long hair would suit me!

Also the message should be stay at home. Not stay at home if you possibly can. Khan has this right. Johnson doesnt.

Regrettably you may be right. Tell people to stay at home and there's half a chance that they'll actually end up doing what they should (ie staying at home apart from the absolute necessaries, ie getting groceries) - although the danger then is the public taking it too literally and assuming that they can't step past the door for the forseeable

 

[Darandio]

More pictures are starting to come in from around the country today, just like yesterday. Brighton with thousands of people on the seafront, supermarkets with hundreds of people filing in shoulder to shoulder, a biker gathering at Matlock with hundreds of bikers congregating together for a chat.

We're on a completely new level of stupid here.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Social distancing is not working. Look at the comments here and the media reports of behaviour this weekend. More needs to be done. Now. People have to be forced to behave. Why are we waiting?


Also how supine are the reporters? Attack the man and his wibble. Come back at Johnson. Attack. Challenge. Dont swallow his bull.

The medical advisor also dodged a question on death graphs. Challenge none answers.

Also the message should be stay at home. Not stay at home if you possibly can. Khan has this right. Johnson doesnt.

I'm following a trend here, I actually agree with you, DarloRich, must be something in the water!
Johnson...'We have a good supply of ventilators, but we need far, far more'...doesn't make sense.

 

[DarloRich]

Regrettably you may be right. Tell people to stay at home and there's half a chance that they'll actually end up doing what they should (ie staying at home apart from the absolute necessaries, ie getting groceries) - although the danger then is the public taking it too literally and assuming that they can't step past the door for the forseeable

Not may be right. Am right. I have been critical of Johnson and his messaging AND people who cant follow simple advice and think they are clever.

More pictures are starting to come in from around the country today, just like yesterday. Brighton with thousands of people on the seafront, supermarkets with hundreds of people filing in shoulder to shoulder, a biker gathering at Matlock with hundreds of bikers congregating together for a chat.

We're on a completely new level of stupid here.

Absolutely. Johnson is to blame for not imposing harsh restrictions early. He had a final chance today and bottled it. People will die becuase of that and nhs pressures will be greater.

And dont get me started on people who "need" to go out to exercise. They dont need to, they want to becusee they think the rules dont apply to them.

Any obesity problem caused by being confined to our homes is a problem for tomorrow. Being fat will kill you at some point. Covid 19 might kill you or someone you care about next week. Same goes for mental health.

We can sort that later. Focus on the priorities of protrcting people and protecting nhs capacity.

Awaitng the incoming angry wibble fest.......

 

[DarloRich]

I'm following a trend here, I actually agree with you, DarloRich, must be something in the water!
Johnson...'We have a good supply of ventilators, but we need far, far more'...doesn't make sense.

Not one of them went back to him with when. When will we have more ventilators Prime Minister? What date?

 

[Domh245]

Not may be right. Am right. I have been critical of Johnson and his messaging AND people who cant follow simple advice and think they are clever.

Johnson and the advisors have been right and the advice has been sound, the real problem is that the public (generally) seem to be idiots. The fact they aren't following the advice to practice social distancing either through misunderstanding or an overinflated sense of self entitlement is the issue, not that the strategy isn't good enough. Perhaps that's something that he ought to have realised and acted on, but the flip side to that (and why the strategy wasn't "immediate lockdown") is again that people are idiots and would either be panic buying before the shutdown or getting sick and tired of it after a couple of weeks and giving up on it. Very much stuck between a rock and a hard place.

 

[Belperpete]

Social distancing is not working. Look at the comments here and the media reports of behaviour this weekend. More needs to be done. Now. People have to be forced to behave. Why are we waiting?

TBH, I think the government has got this about right. It is a fine balance between doing what is necessary and being seen as draconian and unnecessarily infringing peoples' liberties. If they are perceived to be going over-the-top, there is a real risk that significant numbers of people will not comply out of principle. As Domh says, stuck between a rock and a hard place.

If they had shut the bars and restaurants down straight away, there would have been a large outcry. There were still plenty of idiots complaining that going to the pub was little different to being in a crowded supermarket, and that obnoxious Weatherspoons owner tried to object, but they seem to have got fairly short thrift in the press. By waiting until there was public disquiet about it, and then closing them down, the government effectively silenced any backlash. Now the government will be able to use the quite vocal outcry about the number of people heading to second homes and tourist attractions to justify imposing even tighter restrictions, that would have been less-well received before.

As I said on another thread, every individual who ignores the current advice, who finds some excuse to "bend the rules" in their particular case, makes the imposition of even tighter restrictions that much more likely.

 

[yorksrob]

And dont get me started on people who "need" to go out to exercise. They dont need to, they want to becusee they think the rules dont apply to them.

There are no rules saying that you can't go for a walk outside on your own, so long as you practice social distancing. It is specifically allowed for those not self-isolating.

 

[Starmill]

I include being at home in the need to be risk averse. You might for instance want to avoid using the chip pan if you have one.

But if you want to go out, go for a walk alone, that's near enough zero risk.

I've never personally been convinced a chip pan is within a reasonable risk to be taking within one's own kitchen when frozen oven chips to me taste just as great these days.

Perhaps that's more my own thinking about how I'd handle a chip pan than than how their users generally do. They're clearly not recommended ways to cook anything, though. I even manage to splash hot oil on my hands when frying the occasional vegetable burger patty those primarily go on the grill now.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And dont get me started on people who "need" to go out to exercise. They dont need to, they want to becusee they think the rules dont apply to them.

The rules allow you to do so, and they do in most locked down countries too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've never personally been convinced a chip pan is within a reasonable risk to be taking within one's own kitchen when frozen oven chips to me taste just as great these days.

Perhaps that's more my own thinking about how I'd handle a chip pan than than how their users generally do. They're clearly not recommended ways to cook anything, though. I even manage to splash hot oil on my hands when frying the occasional vegetable burger patty those primarily go on the grill now.

Personally I do sliced potato drizzled in oil in the oven. Oven chips are rubbish.

 

[DarloRich]

Johnson and the advisors have been right and the advice has been sound, the real problem is that the public (generally) seem to be idiots. The fact they aren't following the advice to practice social distancing either through misunderstanding or an overinflated sense of self entitlement is the issue, not that the strategy isn't good enough. Perhaps that's something that he ought to have realised and acted on, but the flip side to that (and why the strategy wasn't "immediate lockdown") is again that people are idiots and would either be panic buying before the shutdown or getting sick and tired of it after a couple of weeks and giving up on it. Very much stuck between a rock and a hard place.

The strategy ISN' T working if people aren't following it! Look at the news. Parks full, people treating it like a bloody bank holiday and getting away into Snowdonia or the coast or the highlands.

People have been given the chance to behave correctly. Sadly many, and some here, have been unable to do so. It is time to make them.

TBH, I think the government has got this about right. It is a fine balance between doing what is necessary and being seen as draconian and unnecessarily infringing peoples' liberties. If they are perceived to be going over-the-top, there is a real risk that significant numbers of people will not comply out of principle. As Domh says, stuck between a rock and a hard place.

If they had shut the bars and restaurants down straight away, there would have been a large outcry. There were still plenty of idiots complaining that going to the pub was little different to being in a crowded supermarket, and that obnoxious Weatherspoons owner tried to object, but they seem to have got fairly short thrift in the press. By waiting until there was public disquiet about it, and then closing them down, the government effectively silenced any backlash. Now the government will be able to use the quite vocal outcry about the number of people heading to second homes and tourist attractions to justify imposing even tighter restrictions, that would have been less-well received before.

As I said on another thread, every individual who ignores the current advice, who finds some excuse to "bend the rules" in their particular case, makes the imposition of even tighter restrictions that much more likely.

Round the corner from me on the high street are several kebab shops, curry houses, pizza shops and Chinese takeaways. all open. People coming and going like normal last night.(@Bletchleyite will know it.) The streets were busy with cars and have been today, as well as people out. It isn't working. This is not a situation that is being taken seriously enough. We all know that. Why pretend otherwise?

There are no rules saying that you can't go for a walk outside on your own, so long as you practice social distancing. It is specifically allowed for those not self-isolating.

The rules allow you to do so, and they do in most locked down countries too.

And the people I have seen running and cycling in groups this weekend? What about those morons? I suppose that is ok because it is exercise is it?

 

[yorksrob]

And the people I have seen running and cycling in groups this weekend? What about those morons? I suppose that is ok because it is exercise is it?

Then unless they share a house, they're not following the guidance.

 

[yorkie]

And the people I have seen running and cycling in groups this weekend? What about those morons? I suppose that is ok because it is exercise is it?

But how close are those people to each other? if you are cycling in particular then if you are a safe distance from a cycling point of view I would expect that to be safe from a virus point of view. The risks of contracting a virus from someone who is showing no symptoms riding a bike must be close to non-existent. It's far, far, risker to be in a supermarket!

 

[DarloRich]

But how close are those people to each other? if you are cycling in particular then if you are a safe distance from a cycling point of view I would expect that to be safe from a virus point of view. The risks of contracting a virus from someone who is showing no symptoms riding a bike must be close to non-existent. It's far, far, risker to be in a supermarket!

for goodness sake. They were in a group/gang/pack/club of cyclists of the type who are out every Sunday.

They didn't need to be out. Normally that is something to be encouraged. Not now. Why aren't people as angry as me about this?

 

[Bletchleyite]

And the people I have seen running and cycling in groups this weekend? What about those morons? I suppose that is ok because it is exercise is it?

Where, precisely, did either of the two posts you quoted say that exercise in groups was OK?

I have said, and keep saying, that you should go for a local run or walk BY YOURSELF OR WITH PEOPLE YOU LIVE WITH. That is important for mental health. I would not like to see that banned.

 

[cactustwirly]

But how close are those people to each other? if you are cycling in particular then if you are a safe distance from a cycling point of view I would expect that to be safe from a virus point of view. The risks of contracting a virus from someone who is showing no symptoms riding a bike must be close to non-existent. It's far, far, risker to be in a supermarket!

It's not the cycling itself, but the close interaction between the cyclists. So it's fine if you're cycling by yourself, but cycling in groups is not ok.

 

[cactustwirly]

Where, precisely, did either of the two posts you quoted say that exercise in groups was OK?

I have said, and keep saying, that you should go for a local run or walk BY YOURSELF OR WITH PEOPLE YOU LIVE WITH. That is important for mental health. I would not like to see that banned.

But it will be banned like Lombardy, unless people people stop being idiots.

 

[DarloRich]

Then unless they share a house, they're not following the guidance.

and therein lies the point. The guidance is not being followed. It is not being taken seriously enough.

Where, precisely, did either of the two posts you quoted say that exercise in groups was OK?

I don't think exercise is essential at this precise time. I think it is an excuse used by people who think the rules don't apply to them. You are welcome to disagree but my view wont change. We should not go out for anything non essential, including trying to beat your strava time!

What is crucial is maintaining care capacity in the NHS to treat coronovirus patients. There is a hard number we cant breach and we are going to breach that number if we do not do something very quickly.

BTW - My mental health will not collapse if I cant go for a walk for 3 months. It might if people close to me die. That's what is important there.

 

[hexagon789]

I would not like to see that banned.

Nor would a lot of people, but with the way things are going...

 

[yorksrob]

And dont get me started on people who "need" to go out to exercise. They dont need to, they want to becusee they think the rules dont apply to them.

and therein lies the point. The guidance is not being followed. It is not being taken seriously enough.

I don't think exercise is essential at this precise time. I think it is an excuse used by people who think the rules don't apply to them. You are welcome to disagree but my view wont change. We should be trying not to go out for anything non essential.

My mental health will not collapse if i cant go for a walk for 3 months. It might if people close to me die. That's what is important there.

Your quote at the top suggests that people who go out to excercise are automatically breaking the rules. If they are doing it in accordance with the social distancing guidance, they are not.

If you think the guidance is wrong, by all means say so. Don't make stuff up.

 

[DarloRich]

Your quote at the top suggests that people who go out to excercise are automatically breaking the rules. If they are doing it in accordance with the social distancing guidance, they are not.

If you think the guidance is wrong, by all means say so. Don't make stuff up.

The guidance is wrong. It is not being followed. People I saw today and yesterday were breaking the rules while exercising.

They should be called out by you and others for doing so.

 

[yorkie]

I don't think exercise is essential at this precise time. I think it is an excuse used by people who think the rules don't apply to them. You are welcome to disagree but my view wont change. We should be trying not to go out for anything non essential.

I am used to disagreeing with you; I am used to your view not changing. It goes without saying!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/51995907

..."From the Prime Minister down, everyone recognises the vital benefit that being active can have. It's not just a means of building and retaining your physical wellbeing, but also crucially it's a way of supporting your mental health and battling back against some of the worst moments of isolation and fear that the coronavirus has instilled in all of us....

BTW - My mental health will not collapse if I cant go for a walk for 3 months....

I am so worried about the mental health of some young people I know (who I fear would NOT survive if they had to remain indoors for 3 months; they are clearly not you!) I was in tears on Friday night. I won't say any more on the subject as I know I am not going to change your mind and I also can't go into too much detail of my concerns for reasons of confidentiality.

But, despite our disagreements, I am looking forward, when this is all over, to having you at a forum meal and I will be glad to have your company. That won't change!

 

[CM]

and therein lies the point. The guidance is not being followed. It is not being taken seriously enough.



I don't think exercise is essential at this precise time. I think it is an excuse used by people who think the rules don't apply to them. You are welcome to disagree but my view wont change. We should be trying not to go out for anything non essential.

My mental health will not collapse if i cant go for a walk for 3 months. It might if people close to me die. That's what is important there.

We aren't all you though and just because you say it's wrong doesn't mean it is. The Government have said it's OK for people to go out an exercise and that is it. Also, some of us still have to go to work, the shops, visit friends and family who may need assistance. Personally, I've been informed that my place of work has been marked as Critical Infrastructure because it supplies the Food industry and the NHS. Should I just stay in my house until this all blows over and probably starve to death because, as far as you're concerned nobody should leave their house for any reason?! Not a chance!

 

[Ianno87]

and therein lies the point. The guidance is not being followed. It is not being taken seriously enough.



I don't think exercise is essential at this precise time. I think it is an excuse used by people who think the rules don't apply to them. You are welcome to disagree but my view wont change. We should not go out for anything non essential, including trying to beat your strava time!

What is crucial is maintaining care capacity in the NHS to treat coronovirus patients. There is a hard number we cant breach and we are going to breach that number if we do not do something very quickly.

BTW - My mental health will not collapse if I cant go for a walk for 3 months. It might if people close to me die. That's what is important there.

I now face the prospect of spending many weeks in a house where my work space (i.e. kitchen table) and time is inherently shared with family space and time...and with a 1 & 3 year old about it is unavoidably going to be stressful. The latter is currently on a late bedtime cycle whilst the former is stuck on early rising mode. So both children in bed is basically only when I need to be in bed as well.

Being able to occasionally leave the house for a short walk, both for my wife and myself, and entirely with stated social distancing guidelines, is going to be essential to maintaining our state of mental health and the level of care our kids require.

 

[yorksrob]

The guidance is wrong. It is not being followed. People I saw today and yesterday were breaking the rules while exercising.

They should be called out by you and others for doing so.

I think that people should follow the guidance.