Coronavirus.

[DarloRich]

My personal view is that not enough attention is being paid to the economic impact. Yes, significant numbers of people will lose their jobs, and that will inevitably impact the economy. More importantly, as I have mentioned on another thread, our government is proposing to spend billions of pounds it doesn't have, likewise the EU is proposing to spend billions of Euros that it doesn't have, and the US is proposing to spend trillions of dollars that it doesn't have. Where is all this money coming from? Who is lending it? China - I doubt it. If governments around the world are just printing money on this scale, then there will sooner or later be a financial melt-down that is going to make the 1929 crash, let alone the 2008 crash, look like a storm in a tea-cup. What is the point in saving our NHS now if we cripple ourselves so badly we can't afford it in future? This to my mind is the big elephant in the room, that nobody is asking questions about.

I am not sure it is as clear-cut as you say. Not only is it difficult to say that people of one group should be a bigger priority than others, the numbers are really difficult to quantify. We just don't know the impact; it may be that for every person over 70 whose life we prolong might cause major health problems for 10 young people who would otherwise lead healthy lives. But it may be the other way round of course. We just don't know. I do worry that if this goes on for too long, the damage to young people will have been far greater than could be justified. But I do not know how long it will be before it is "too long". It is easy to say this or that should be a priority but is much harder to know for a fact what the actual wider impact of any particular action will be.

I take the points both of you make but I maintain these are issues ( terrible, scary, awful issues) for tomorrow. Today we have to stop this virus. We should be parking these issues and putting everything into stopping this situation getting worse. We might not have the luxury for long!

 

[Busaholic]

I think it’s worth noting at this point that when you take a step back from this thread there are a lot of (understandably) very worried people, but that some people have very different worries to others...
We might find someone else’s problems pale into insignificance compared to the things that we personally are worried about, but that doesn’t mean that we necessarily understand how they’re feeling about the things that are concerning them.
We all need to think about this before dismissing others in my view because this is going to go on for a long time and we’re going to have to have empathy for each other if we’re going to get through it.

And by the way I appreciate a lot of the views and opinions on here and genuinely feel that we can all help each other...

It all came home to me last night when my wife told me to look at a local news item. Up to now, very few people in Cornwall had been announced to have contracted it, and nobody had died. Even in the wider S.W. the first death had only been announced earlier in the week, followed by two related ones in Torbay of people who'd been to Italy. So to read last night that four people had died with Coronavirus at the Royal Cornwall Hospital was like receiving a personal kick in the stomach (and I know how that feels.) To then read they were all in their 70s with underlying health problems (i.e. in the same age/situation as us) was a salutary warning. Then tonight a good friend of my wife's in Brixham announced she'd contracted it: she's in her 60s, but her 90 year old mother lives with her, and her husband is in Abu Dhabi. Whatever we think about official reactions to the epidemic, and I'm very critical, calling 'fake news' or otherwise burying one's head in the sand is no answer. My wife, 70 last month, has read the latest medical statement that someone in her situation, having had an operation only eleven days ago (seems a lifetime already), if it doesn't prove successful in removing the problem then there won't NECESSARILY be follow-up surgery because the risk of contracting Coronavirus in the hospital is a worse fear than the original disease! As I said, it doesn't half concentrate the mind on what's important and what's entirely nebulous. Good luck to everyone on here, and we all have to make up our minds what we'll do in our own situations. I only know my (and our) decisions on that will be our own, taking into account sensible medical advice, but if it contradicts what Johnson/Hancock or any of those hopeless people that have infested themselves into top positions then tough! It's my life, matey, and you don't live it for me.

 

[Garmoran]

My personal view is that not enough attention is being paid to the economic impact. Yes, significant numbers of people will lose their jobs, and that will inevitably impact the economy. More importantly, as I have mentioned on another thread, our government is proposing to spend billions of pounds it doesn't have, likewise the EU is proposing to spend billions of Euros that it doesn't have, and the US is proposing to spend trillions of dollars that it doesn't have. Where is all this money coming from? Who is lending it? China - I doubt it. If governments around the world are just printing money on this scale, then there will sooner or later be a financial melt-down that is going to make the 1929 crash, let alone the 2008 crash, look like a storm in a tea-cup. What is the point in saving our NHS now if we cripple ourselves so badly we can't afford it in future? This to my mind is the big elephant in the room, that nobody is asking questions about.

Plenty of people are asking the questions, but there is no-one who can provide answers at the moment. The crisis is not about saving the NHS but about preventing economic collapse in the short term so that we can try and fix it in the long term. I expect to see VAT rise to at least 25% in April 2021 but the longer this goes on the more likely that there will be a finacial meltdown of the type you describe.

 

[Mag_seven]

I suggest suspending all commercial adverts (which seem totally pointless at the moment) on TV, radio and billboards and replacing them with messages about things such as how do "do" social distancing. It seems to me that loads of folks still don't understand what it is let alone how to do it.

 

[Cowley]

It all came home to me last night when my wife told me to look at a local news item. Up to now, very few people in Cornwall had been announced to have contracted it, and nobody had died. Even in the wider S.W. the first death had only been announced earlier in the week, followed by two related ones in Torbay of people who'd been to Italy. So to read last night that four people had died with Coronavirus at the Royal Cornwall Hospital was like receiving a personal kick in the stomach (and I know how that feels.) To then read they were all in their 70s with underlying health problems (i.e. in the same age/situation as us) was a salutary warning. Then tonight a good friend of my wife's in Brixham announced she'd contracted it: she's in her 60s, but her 90 year old mother lives with her, and her husband is in Abu Dhabi. Whatever we think about official reactions to the epidemic, and I'm very critical, calling 'fake news' or otherwise burying one's head in the sand is no answer. My wife, 70 last month, has read the latest medical statement that someone in her situation, having had an operation only eleven days ago (seems a lifetime already), if it doesn't prove successful in removing the problem then there won't NECESSARILY be follow-up surgery because the risk of contracting Coronavirus in the hospital is a worse fear than the original disease! As I said, it doesn't half concentrate the mind on what's important and what's entirely nebulous. Good luck to everyone on here, and we all have to make up our minds what we'll do in our own situations. I only know my (and our) decisions on that will be our own, taking into account sensible medical advice, but if it contradicts what Johnson/Hancock or any of those hopeless people that have infested themselves into top positions then tough! It's my life, matey, and you don't live it for me.

That’s awful and I can only imagine how worried you are.
Our situation is that our eldest (my stepdaughter who is 24 on Thursday) has had lung problems a few times in her life including a collapsed lung about three years ago, and I’m extremely worried about it.
I heard tonight that a friend of ours that lives near Crediton has had the virus this last week and she’s been very ill (although not hospitalised). This has certainly bought it closer to our front door in my mind.

 

[Cowley]

I suggest suspending all commercial adverts (which seem totally pointless at the moment) on TV, radio and billboards and replacing them with messages about things such as how do "do" social distancing. It seems to me that loads of folks still don't understand what it is let alone how to do it.

That’s a very good idea.

 

[DarloRich]

I suggest suspending all commercial adverts (which seem totally pointless at the moment) on TV, radio and billboards and replacing them with messages about things such as how do "do" social distancing. It seems to me that loads of folks still don't understand what it is let alone how to do it.

really good idea - should happen immediately

 

[DerekC]

I have a motorbike and conditions are perfect, especially with less “cages” on the road.

I was thinking of having a ride on my own, I thought I would not be in contact with anyone which is the main concern.

But then I considered, what if I have an accident? The ambulance service, police and possibly fire service would have to come and scrape me off the road and this would divert vital resources and they’d all have to come in contact with me and each other.

So I think I’ll leave the bike at home for now. Regrettably.

Not just bikes but anyone going out should think carefully about their actions.

The problem is that not all bikers are as sensible as you. This is a clip taken at our local bikers' café today.

 

[hexagon789]

The young seem to be particularly prone to this, I suspect due to the generational move away from main-stream TV and press, toward on-line sources of entertainment and news. Yes, the press may have their biases, but you generally know what they are - much more difficult to determine with random on-line sources. Unfortunately there is a whole industry out there feeding fake on-line news, with the sole purpose of making people mistrust what they are told, and creating division and discord.

And ultimately there will be people profiting from the "fake" news, which is all the more galling

 

[Peter Kelford]

We can't fix suicides. There WILL be suicides.

There were 6507 suicides last year. By contrast, an under-controlled coronavirus epidemic could kill more.

On a separate note, looking at the statistics in France (they appeared in Franceinfo a few days back) younger people (under 60s) form 40% of cases in ICUs. I am somewhat concerned at the idea that under 70s are immune to serious symptoms if you don't have a serious condition. Another piece of information not widely circulated in the UK (see Franceinfo links here and here) is that ibuprofen and other anti-inflammatories are believed to increase the severity of symptoms.

 

[The Ham]

I am sorry to say my response will not be user friendly so I will say they might HAVE to stay in for 3 months and find a way to survive. That is coming precisely because people, some here, have been unable to follow the rules

I will also point out that you are not the only one concerned about people.



Can we try to be rational please? My view is that AT THIS PRECISE TIME exercise is not essential. We can survive for a period without it. Yes that might store up problems for the future but we have a more pressing issue to deal with now. That should be the focus.



The guidance isn't working.

Exercise IS essential now, as those who are fit and healthy are more likely to survive and be less likely to require hospitalisation.

As such the more exercise we as a nation can get the less strain the NHS will be under.

Now whilst you're not going to be fitter if you get it in the next few days from a little more exercise, of you do up your exercise and then get it on a few weeks you'll be better off.

The very worse thing to do is to become a coach potato having been fairly active, even if that was only the walking about between trains (including going up and down stairs). As it can be surprising how far you do walk in a day doing so.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Exercise IS essential now, as those who are fit and healthy are more likely to survive and be less likely to require hospitalisation.

I believe obesity is a risk factor, yes, as an obese body is already under strain.

 

[bussnapperwm]

Now even subway have said their shutting up shop after 5pm. With the loss of MDs too, that leaves Uber Eats and Just Eat with all the terrible take outs left!!

And on the run up to pay day too! (I usually treat my family to a McDs breakfast delivered on payday - with the odd drive thru visit on the way into work in my uber/Ola.)

Makes me feel even more depressed.

 

[Meerkat]

The closure of takeaway outlets is going to increase the pressure on supermarkets, both direct food replacement, and some additional stockpiling (I hate McDonalds but the local drive through was a back up plan). Also it must be worrying for the emergency services - if the local kebab shop closes too the coppers on patrol are going to get pretty hungry....

 

[Garmoran]

Another piece of information not widely circulated in the UK (see Franceinfo links here and here) is that ibuprofen and other anti-inflammatories are believed to increase the severity of symptoms.

And here we see how disinformation spreads, so that a toilet roll shortage in a district in China spreads to Australia and then worldwide.

The ibuprofen scare seems to have originated with French doctors pointing out that ibuprofen does nothing to reduce fever, unlike paracetamol, the other common painkiller in general use.
Gov.uk statement on the subject at https://www.gov.uk/government/news/ibuprofen-use-and-covid19coronavirus

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I suggest suspending all commercial adverts (which seem totally pointless at the moment) on TV, radio and billboards and replacing them with messages about things such as how do "do" social distancing. It seems to me that loads of folks still don't understand what it is let alone how to do it.

Oh, most understand it alright, but it either doesn't apply to them because of their 'special reasons for exemption', or they think no-one else will go where they always go on a nice day. Lo and behold it's crowded!
That said, it is rather difficult if you live in an area with zero or minimal official cases (yet). Stoke-on-Trent has two. Difficult to measure the risk there, especially if applying the symptoms and distancing rules.

 

[Djgr]

And here we see how disinformation spreads, so that a toilet roll shortage in a district in China spreads to Australia and then worldwide.

The ibuprofen scare seems to have originated with French doctors pointing out that ibuprofen does nothing to reduce fever, unlike paracetamol, the other common painkiller in general use.
Gov.uk statement on the subject at https://www.gov.uk/government/news/ibuprofen-use-and-covid19coronavirus

The key phrase in this government statement is "no strong" before evidence. Not the same as "no"

 

[DarloRich]

The evening prime ministerial press conference has been cancelled this evening due to a CBRA meeting at 1700. I wonder what that could be about?

(Seen in a tweet by the BBC political correspondent)

 

[3rd rail land]

The evening prime ministerial press conference has been cancelled this evening due to a CBRA meeting at 1700. I wonder what that could be about?

(Seen in a tweet by the BBC political correspondent)

Hopefully it will be about anything other than locking down London. I live in London and although I don't have anywhere I need to go outside London I don't like the idea of being on lockdown. If I go outside I don't want to have to answer to a police officer/soldier as to what I am doing.

 

[Darandio]

Hopefully it will be about anything other than locking down London. I live in London and although I don't have anywhere I need to go outside London I don't like the idea of being on lockdown. If I go outside I don't want to have to answer to a police officer/soldier as what I am doing.

As bad as you believe that would be, your fellow citizens are going to ensure that is the case at some point in the very near future.

 

[3rd rail land]

As bad as you believe that would be, your fellow citizens are going to ensure that is the case at some point in the very near future.

I am sure it will happen. For me I am rather forced to adhere to the advice given as I am single person living alone and all my hobbies have been cancelled/postponed. I can't even go to the pub with my mates as they have all been ordered to close. I also WFH 95% of the time and have done so since September as my employer closed my local office.

 

[trainophile]

The people in the worst situation will be those who live alone in a tiny studio or flat. Or maybe even worse for couples who share a tiny place!

 

[Jamesrob637]

The people in the worst situation will be those who live alone in a tiny studio or flat. Or maybe even worse for couples who share a tiny place!

That's me, but fortunately I'm at my mum's for now.

 

[thejuggler]

There are families living in a single room in a B&B, or a a small unit in a former office converted to housing. Terrible conditions at the best of times. It will quickly become unbearable.

 

[UP13]

Not may be right. Am right. I have been critical of Johnson and his messaging AND people who cant follow simple advice and think they are clever.



Absolutely. Johnson is to blame for not imposing harsh restrictions early. He had a final chance today and bottled it. People will die becuase of that and nhs pressures will be greater.

And dont get me started on people who "need" to go out to exercise. They dont need to, they want to becusee they think the rules dont apply to them.

Any obesity problem caused by being confined to our homes is a problem for tomorrow. Being fat will kill you at some point. Covid 19 might kill you or someone you care about next week. Same goes for mental health.

We can sort that later. Focus on the priorities of protrcting people and protecting nhs capacity.

Awaitng the incoming angry wibble fest.......

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Ianno87]

The people in the worst situation will be those who live alone in a tiny studio or flat. Or maybe even worse for couples who share a tiny place!

There are families living in a single room in a B&B, or a a small unit in a former office converted to housing. Terrible conditions at the best of times. It will quickly become unbearable.

Definitely feel for those with young kids in a tiny flat.

All because the masses just *had* to go crowd the Hackney hipster market on Sunday rather than simply sit in and watch a few DVDs.

 

[krus_aragon]

All because the masses just *had* to go crowd the Hackney hipster market on Sunday rather than simply sit in and watch a few DVDs.

We've got a small garden at the back of our house. With the weather being so nice, the kids spent five hours running around the garden; no need to consider going further afield. (They had another five hours or so today!)

 

[Darandio]

8:30pm it is for the PM to address the nation. Lockdown time.

Also strongly urging UK travellers overseas to return home now while they can still do so.

 

[DarloRich]

8:30pm it is for the PM to address the nation. Lockdown time.

Also strongly urging UK travellers overseas to return home now while they can still do so.

Serious sugar lumps!

 

[ainsworth74]

8:30pm it is for the PM to address the nation. Lockdown time.

Feels like it doesn't it? Just hope it isn't instant, I could do with grabbing a few more bits from the office which I'll happily do tonight after the announcement (the advantage of being a key holder!)...