Received a summon for traveling without a valid ticket

[kim0918]

My friend was on the train from Manchester Piccadilly to Canley on 2ed Jan, 2020 using a 16-25 railway card. He was an international postgraduate student and did not know much about the UK law system, thinking it didn't hurt to press the refund button on the Trainline App. so he refunded the tickets when he traveled and got a letter from the court. he actually refunded about 8 times and three of them worked out, one of them he didn't truly take the train. So he got 60 pounds refunded in total i think.
A few days ago he received a summon to ask him to attend the court on 7th May. (previously received two letters from the court, and he replied but the case continued) what should he do? what might be the worst consequence? should he ask for the lawyer or something? is there still any possibility to settle out of court and who should he contact? it's a big lesson and he plans to leave UK in June but still don't know if this whole thing can be settled before that...
please can anyone provide some advice? that would be very helpful!!

 

[Islineclear3_1]

It would also help if you posted the type of ticket he originally bought

 

[Bedpan]

What is the refund button?

 

[Hadders]

My friend was on the train from Manchester Piccadilly to Canley on 2ed Jan, 2020. He was an international postgraduate student and did not know much about the UK law system, thinking it didn't hurt to press the refund button. so he refunded the tickets when he traveled and got a letter from the court. The total amount he avoided was 55 pounds.
A few days ago he received a summon to ask him to attend the court on 7th May. what should he do? what might be the worst consequence? should he ask for the lawyer or something? is there still any possibility to settle out of court and who should he contact? it's a big lesson and he plans to leave UK in June but still don't know if this whole thing can be settled before that...
please can anyone provide some advice? that would be very helpful!!

Welcome to the forum. Travelling without a valid ticket is a serious offence (potentially criminal consequences rather than a civil matter (which is what most parking tickets are)). If you've been summonsed to appear in court then the best advice I can give is to attend in person.

It might be possible to enter into dialogue with the train company to get the court proceedings withdrawn in return for paying an 'administrative settlement'. Sometimes it has been possible to achieve this at the doors of the court a few minutes before the case is heard.

It is unusual for a train company to proceed straight to court, usually they will write asking you to give your version of events before issuing a summons so it would be interesting to know if the train company has been in touch asking for this and if so what was said in response.

There are many similar cases on this section of the forum so I suggest you take a look and familiarise yourself with some similar cases.

What is the refund button?

Sounds like an m-ticket that has been refunded from within the app.

 

[Stigy]

It’s possible to settle out of court right up until the hearing. It’s advisable to contact the train operator concerned and express your remorse etc and explain how it was a one off and you would be grateful if on this occasion you could settle the matter without troubling the court and instead paying all reasonable administrative fees to avoid any further action.

Of course, your friend could risk it if he’s leaving the UK in June, but he might not get back in again. There wont be an international arrest warrant issued or anything like that that.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Of course, your friend could risk it if he’s leaving the UK in June, but he might not get back in again. There wont be an international arrest warrant issued or anything like that that.

Wouldn't his friend be convicted in his absence if he fails to engage with the process?

 

[Stigy]

Wouldn't his friend be convicted in his absence if he fails to engage with the process?

Yes. I meant that if he’s planning on leaving the country and not returning, it will have limited impact on him regardless. Playing devils advocate and I’d not recommend this approach if course.

 

[Bedpan]

Sounds like an m-ticket that has been refunded from within the app.

I must admit that I've been left behind by all this mobile ticketing stuff! Maybe something to learn about when the longer winter nights set in, if we are unlucky enough to still be under lockdown then.

 

[snail]

I doubt the TOC would prosecute for refunding a ticket without firm evidence that the ticket holder had travelled. Were they challenged on the train? At a station exit? There is a lot of detail missing here.

 

[kim0918]

It’s possible to settle out of court right up until the hearing. It’s advisable to contact the train operator concerned and express your remorse etc and explain how it was a one off and you would be grateful if on this occasion you could settle the matter without troubling the court and instead paying all reasonable administrative fees to avoid any further action.

Of course, your friend could risk it if he’s leaving the UK in June, but he might not get back in again. There wont be an international arrest warrant issued or anything like that that.

thanks very much for the advice! just confused how can he contact the train operator? He once called the crosscountry number shows on the official website but they replied they weren't in charge of this kind of stuff...
I know if he's leaving the influence could be limited. but there's still possibility that he gets a criminal record and that might impact his visa application in the future I guess?

 

[kim0918]

My friend was on the train from Manchester Piccadilly to Canley on 2ed Jan, 2020 using a 16-25 railway card on CrossCountry. He was an international postgraduate student. He refunded the tickets when he traveled and got a letter from the court that day. He refunded about 8 times and three of them succeeded. He truly didn't take the train one of the three times. so the total refunded amount was about 60 pounds i think.
A few days ago he received a summon to ask him to attend the court on 7th May. (previously received two letters, he replied but the case continued) what should he do? what might be the worst consequence? should he ask for the lawyer or something? is there still any possibility to settle out of court and who should he contact? it's a big lesson and he plans to leave UK in June but still don't know if this whole thing can be settled before that...
please can anyone provide some advice? that would be very helpful!!

 

[clagmonster]

As the summons is for 7th May, so long as the case isn't adjourned, either due to a not guilty plea being entered or due to the pandemic, the case will be settled either way on that date.

Was the ticket refunded an m-ticket on a mobile app, refunded then shown to a ticket inspector?

In any case, I think it is clear that by paying the fare and then claiming a refund, the net result is no fare has been paid. To do this twice whilst still having travelled, would lead me to suspect it was a deliberate act. Thus barring a technicality, your friend is guilty of offences, however, it would be useful if you post on here exactly which offence your friend is charged with committing.

It could be worth writing to the company processing the matter, showing remorse and requesting the opportunity to settle the matter out of court by paying the fare and costs involved in dealing with the matter. If this fails, it could also be worth asking to speak with the prosecutor at the court on the day before the hearing takes place, they may be willing to settle. If all fails, I would advise them to plead guilty in which case the fine will be reduced by a third.

 

[ainsworth74]

thanks very much for the advice! just confused how can he contact the train operator? He once called the crosscountry number shows on the official website but they replied they weren't in charge of this kind of stuff...

He should look closely at the paperwork he has been sent. I suspect it will make reference to an organisation called "Transport Investigations Limited" (TIL). TIL are usually used by CrossCountry to carry out prosecutions on their behalf and as such TIL are the people he would need to speak with. You can find their contact information on their website here. I would recommend he ring them as soon as possible.

Be warned, however, TIL have a terrible reputation on these Forums for the way they handle their prosecution cases and by threatening and bringing cases against people who haven't actually done anything wrong. In this case it would appear that he very much has done something wrong so I would expect that if TIL are willing to settle the case before the hearing that they will only do so in exchange for quite a significant sum particularly considering that this appears to have been a sustained act on multiple occasions.

I know if he's leaving the influence could be limited. but there's still possibility that he gets a criminal record and that might impact his visa application in the future I guess?

But under no doubt if the court hearing goes ahead (and it will do even if he doesn't attend) unless he pleads not guilty (in which event the case will be adjourned to a later date when he will be expected to present his defence) it is almost a certainty that he will be found guilty and will get a criminal record. It is possible he won't get a criminal record as it depends on exactly what offence he is being charged with. Look for references on the paper work to the Railway Byelaws (no criminal record) or the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 (will give a criminal record).

Whether it would impact on future visa applications is realistically outside of the scope of this Forum as it's a fiendishly complex area of law and one which is very tightly regulated (it is indeed a criminal offence to give immigration advice without being registered to do so!) but I believe I would be safe in saying that it very well might impact on any future visa applications or an application to naturalise as a British Citizen. Depending on the conditions of the visa that he currently hold it could even impact on him immediately upon a potential conviction. But if he wanted to know more he would need to seek specialist advice (his Student Union might be able to offer a signpost to an agency that can help).

Considering that he does appear to have actually have evaded his fare and there are possible implications to his immigration status (possibly before he leaves even) I would strongly advise that he should consider speaking to a criminal defence solicitor. You can find details of firms on the Law Society website here. A local firm that works in the criminal sector should be able to assist. Obviously there is a cost implication but many will at least meet (well, at the current time probably phone) for an initial consultation for free so it would be worth ringing and enquiring.

 

[najaB]

But if he wanted to know more he would need to seek specialist advice (his Student Union might be able to offer a signpost to an agency that can help).

I second this advice - it's pretty clear that an offence has been committed (even if we don't know exactly which one), and railway law and immigration law are both quite specialised. So it would be better if your friend sought professional assistance.

 

[kim0918]

He should look closely at the paperwork he has been sent. I suspect it will make reference to an organisation called "Transport Investigations Limited" (TIL). TIL are usually used by CrossCountry to carry out prosecutions on their behalf and as such TIL are the people he would need to speak with. You can find their contact information on their website here. I would recommend he ring them as soon as possible.

Be warned, however, TIL have a terrible reputation on these Forums for the way they handle their prosecution cases and by threatening and bringing cases against people who haven't actually done anything wrong. In this case it would appear that he very much has done something wrong so I would expect that if TIL are willing to settle the case before the hearing that they will only do so in exchange for quite a significant sum particularly considering that this appears to have been a sustained act on multiple occasions.


But under no doubt if the court hearing goes ahead (and it will do even if he doesn't attend) unless he pleads not guilty (in which event the case will be adjourned to a later date when he will be expected to present his defence) it is almost a certainty that he will be found guilty and will get a criminal record. It is possible he won't get a criminal record as it depends on exactly what offence he is being charged with. Look for references on the paper work to the Railway Byelaws (no criminal record) or the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 (will give a criminal record).

Whether it would impact on future visa applications is realistically outside of the scope of this Forum as it's a fiendishly complex area of law and one which is very tightly regulated (it is indeed a criminal offence to give immigration advice without being registered to do so!) but I believe I would be safe in saying that it very well might impact on any future visa applications or an application to naturalise as a British Citizen. Depending on the conditions of the visa that he currently hold it could even impact on him immediately upon a potential conviction. But if he wanted to know more he would need to seek specialist advice (his Student Union might be able to offer a signpost to an agency that can help).

Considering that he does appear to have actually have evaded his fare and there are possible implications to his immigration status (possibly before he leaves even) I would strongly advise that he should consider speaking to a criminal defence solicitor. You can find details of firms on the Law Society website here. A local firm that works in the criminal sector should be able to assist. Obviously there is a cost implication but many will at least meet (well, at the current time probably phone) for an initial consultation for free so it would be worth ringing and enquiring.

thanks so much, this is really helpful. I've attached the files, under this post. It is TIL and think he might call them first

 

[kim0918]

As the summons is for 7th May, so long as the case isn't adjourned, either due to a not guilty plea being entered or due to the pandemic, the case will be settled either way on that date.

Was the ticket refunded an m-ticket on a mobile app, refunded then shown to a ticket inspector?

In any case, I think it is clear that by paying the fare and then claiming a refund, the net result is no fare has been paid. To do this twice whilst still having travelled, would lead me to suspect it was a deliberate act. Thus barring a technicality, your friend is guilty of offences, however, it would be useful if you post on here exactly which offence your friend is charged with committing.

It could be worth writing to the company processing the matter, showing remorse and requesting the opportunity to settle the matter out of court by paying the fare and costs involved in dealing with the matter. If this fails, it could also be worth asking to speak with the prosecutor at the court on the day before the hearing takes place, they may be willing to settle. If all fails, I would advise them to plead guilty in which case the fine will be reduced by a third.

thank you for you help! yes it is the refund on Trainline App, and the company is CrossCountry. He tried to call the company while could not find the right number to call... so he's now thinking to try the last option, going to the court on the day and asking to meet the prosecutor.. so the staff there would tell him who his prosecutor gonna be, is that right?

 

[Fare-Cop]

I seriously suggest that you immediately remove your attachments, or edit them to remove the personal details. posting the Summons and other papers in full on a public forum exposes the person named to identity theft.

Yes, if the defendant attends Court in good time before the specified hearing, book in with the Court Usher and ask to speak with the prosecutor they will be able to direct you to that person.

 

[kim0918]

I seriously suggest that you immediately remove your attachments, or edit them to remove the personal details. posting the Summons and other papers in full on a public forum exposes the person named to identity theft.

Yes, if the defendant attends Court in good time before the specified hearing, book in with the Court Usher and ask to speak with the prosecutor they will be able to direct you to that person.

He should look closely at the paperwork he has been sent. I suspect it will make reference to an organisation called "Transport Investigations Limited" (TIL). TIL are usually used by CrossCountry to carry out prosecutions on their behalf and as such TIL are the people he would need to speak with. You can find their contact information on their website here. I would recommend he ring them as soon as possible.

Be warned, however, TIL have a terrible reputation on these Forums for the way they handle their prosecution cases and by threatening and bringing cases against people who haven't actually done anything wrong. In this case it would appear that he very much has done something wrong so I would expect that if TIL are willing to settle the case before the hearing that they will only do so in exchange for quite a significant sum particularly considering that this appears to have been a sustained act on multiple occasions.


But under no doubt if the court hearing goes ahead (and it will do even if he doesn't attend) unless he pleads not guilty (in which event the case will be adjourned to a later date when he will be expected to present his defence) it is almost a certainty that he will be found guilty and will get a criminal record. It is possible he won't get a criminal record as it depends on exactly what offence he is being charged with. Look for references on the paper work to the Railway Byelaws (no criminal record) or the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 (will give a criminal record).

Whether it would impact on future visa applications is realistically outside of the scope of this Forum as it's a fiendishly complex area of law and one which is very tightly regulated (it is indeed a criminal offence to give immigration advice without being registered to do so!) but I believe I would be safe in saying that it very well might impact on any future visa applications or an application to naturalise as a British Citizen. Depending on the conditions of the visa that he currently hold it could even impact on him immediately upon a potential conviction. But if he wanted to know more he would need to seek specialist advice (his Student Union might be able to offer a signpost to an agency that can help).

Considering that he does appear to have actually have evaded his fare and there are possible implications to his immigration status (possibly before he leaves even) I would strongly advise that he should consider speaking to a criminal defence solicitor. You can find details of firms on the Law Society website here. A local firm that works in the criminal sector should be able to assist. Obviously there is a cost implication but many will at least meet (well, at the current time probably phone) for an initial consultation for free so it would be worth ringing and enquiring.

He had actually tried to phone TIL on the website and they said it was different department from the court affairs and they didn't take charge of this court thing... the documents also mentioned he could directly write a letter to the court if he couldn't attend. what about just writing a letter to plead guilty? does that mean there would certainly be a criminal record?

 

[clagmonster]

If he were to plead guilty by post then yes, he would definitely be convicted and hence receive a criminal record. When that conviction became spent and whether it would be entered into the Police National Computer would depend on which offence he has been charged with - perhaps you could clarify that so that those with more knowledge than I on criminal records could clarify this point.

 

[ainsworth74]

I would reiterate my strong advice that he seek professional advice urgently. Again I am not a lawyer but a bit of Googling confirmed my earlier suspicion that being convicted could, depending exactly on their immigration status and visa conditions, have an immediate implication for their permission to remain in the UK. Therefore they should seek advice urgently on the potential implications of what they've done on their right to remain in the UK quite apart from what it might mean if they wish to return in the future or remain in the UK for longer than their current visa allows.

 

[Fare-Cop]

I am pleased to see that you have taken my advice and removed your personal details.

He had actually tried to phone TIL on the website and they said it was different department from the court affairs and they didn't take charge of this court thing

The paperwork received from Transport Investigations Ltd. will have the correct telephone number to call on it. As far as I am aware the correct number for the prosecutors office is 01354 606988

Be aware, and this is common to all prosecutors offices, whether TOC in-house departments or any other agency, they will not discuss any case with any third party other than a bona fide Lawyer engaged to represent the person who is alleged to have offended. To do so could certainly breach GDPR in some circumstances.

It is also sometimes the case that if a conversation becomes confused or offensive, any prosecution staff may decide not to discuss matters by telephone and will ask the caller to put their comments in writing, either by letter or email, in order to minimise misunderstandings and to be able to give a correct response.

 

[LAX54]

This line seems quite serious too ? ..........He refunded about 8 times and three of them succeeded. He truly didn't take the train one of the three times.
so what about the other 5 attempted ?

 

[najaB]

This line seems quite serious too ? ..........He refunded about 8 times and three of them succeeded. He truly didn't take the train one of the three times.
so what about the other 5 attempted ?

As @ainsworth74 noted above, due to the potential immigration impacts and the nature of the case (the fact that there is no doubt that an offence has been committed) I do not think we're doing the OP any favour by providing further advice.

 

[island]

This line seems quite serious too ? ..........He refunded about 8 times and three of them succeeded. He truly didn't take the train one of the three times.
so what about the other 5 attempted ?

Perhaps the refund requests were rejected because the ticket had been registered as used somehow.

 

[kim0918]

This line seems quite serious too ? ..........He refunded about 8 times and three of them succeeded. He truly didn't take the train one of the three times.
so what about the other 5 attempted ?

the tickets are already used so the system will be able to recognise.

 

[Fare-Cop]

As @ainsworth74 noted above, due to the potential immigration impacts and the nature of the case (the fact that there is no doubt that an offence has been committed) I do not think we're doing the OP any favour by providing further advice.

I agree completely, I suggest that the OP should urgently seek advice from a Lawyer who specialises in criminal law.

It is also helpful if this can be a lawyer who is well known at the Court at which this case is to be heard.