Dominic Cummings alleged breach of lockdown rules discussion

[Geezertronic]

There is a lot of guff in this thread so I got bored of reading the first couple of pages so apologies if this has been asked before, but what rules have been broken here? Genuine question?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wrong. It was that children could move between split parents to make legal contact with both. No merger that were for couple who dont live together to see each other.

That's what I said. If the children moved between split parents, you had to merge the households so far as self isolation went (i.e. if someone fell ill in one of the two, both had to isolate). I didn't say you could merge other households.

 

[Vespa]

It is not about members of the public, this is about senior advisers to the government ignoring it's own instructions, then going on to say it was fine for them. Don't be distracted by thinking that because some of the public had done similar that this makes this unimportant. This is about how the government acts, and how it remains consistent with it's own mandate. If they tell the public one thing, then do another themselves, this becomes a serious problem for reasons that by now should be obvious.

And it seems the political fallout has begun:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52803180

Like I said it's all a political game, I don't really care and I'm not getting my knickers in a twist about it.

I see hypocrisy all over it, media, politics and anti cummings factions making something out of it.

 

[baz962]

There is a lot of guff in this thread so I got bored of reading the first couple of pages so apologies if this has been asked before, but what rules have been broken here? Genuine question?

Er the lockdown rules .

 

[ainsworth74]

I do think it’s strange that this story took so long to be made public. I wondered if the media were concerned about undermining lockdown but then they were happy to print the stories about Stephen Kinnock, Tahir Ali and Robert Jenrick’s lockdown transgressions. Why was Cummins not outed at the time unless his travel to his family estate wasn’t seen as newsworthy enough at the time, maybe the later report of him being seen at Barnard Castle added weight to the story.

A case of if you come at the king you best not miss? Possibly they wanted to make absolutely sure that they had all their ducks in a row before even doing anything with it.

 

[Bantamzen]

Like I said it's all a political game, I don't really care and I'm not getting my knickers in a twist about it.

I see hypocrisy all over it, media, politics and anti cummings factions making something out of it.

Yes it is a political game, and one with serious potential consequences. If ministers and their advisers can get away with possibly ignoring their own instructions / guidelines, how long before they become confident to make the next step and ignore laws, Parliamentary protocols etc? Politicians will often push the boundaries, and in well balanced democracies these are countered with checks, balances and most importantly accountability. Let those slip, and democracy quickly erodes. Just take a look at what's happening over the pond, with Trump's administration trying to blur the lines, bypass protocols & gain advantages by lying & bullying. Is this what we want here?

 

[Western Sunset]

Mr Cummings did, in his eyes, the thing right for his family.
Fortunately, the country as a whole did the right thing by sticking to the message that the government and its advisors (including said Mr Cummings) were clearly putting out. And this message was not merely guidance, but an instruction. You must STAY AT HOME. Obviously, if your house was burning down or some other danger, then you could leave. Also for certain prescribed reasons which were clearly stated. If you needed child care, then get help locally from a friend or relative. If you knew nobody, the local council would help via their hub system.
Mr Cummings decided to ignore all this, whilst others made great sacrifices for the greater good of us all.

 

[PHILIPE]

Some people are now calling for the matter to be put behind us and get on with the job in hand of dealing with COVID but this would amount to sweeping the matter under the carpet.

 

[Western Sunset]

Of course they do.

 

[Geezertronic]

Er the lockdown rules .

Which ones in particular?

 

[baz962]

Which ones in particular?

Self isolate if anyone has symptoms for 14 day's , stay in primary residence etc.

 

[brad465]

Some people are now calling for the matter to be put behind us and get on with the job in hand of dealing with COVID but this would amount to sweeping the matter under the carpet.

The Government unsurprisingly are trying, but with Douglas Ross now resigning over the whole affair specifically that's just prolonged it a bit further.

 

[ashkeba]

There is a lot of guff in this thread so I got bored of reading the first couple of pages so apologies if this has been asked before, but what rules have been broken here? Genuine question?

Leaving one's home without reasonable excuse (Health Protection Coronavirus Regulation 6) and now it also seems driving while unfit (must be against something like the Road Traffic Regulation Act).

Most of what he's done wrong was breaking only guidelines but he's a government adviser and has a key role in setting those guidelines, so it's hypocrisy or double standarding. Also, in defending him, it seems that various spokespeople and ministers have lied, probably because they'd been lied to, but still they've told the public stuff that now seems clearly untrue.

 

[Djgr]

I don’t think Dominic Cummings done anything wrong and any parent worth their salt would agree if they had the same options as he had would have done the same thing

Which ones in particular?

Don't go for unreasonably long drives to do your "exercise"

 

[Vespa]

Yes it is a political game, and one with serious potential consequences. If ministers and their advisers can get away with possibly ignoring their own instructions / guidelines, how long before they become confident to make the next step and ignore laws, Parliamentary protocols etc? Politicians will often push the boundaries, and in well balanced democracies these are countered with checks, balances and most importantly accountability. Let those slip, and democracy quickly erodes. Just take a look at what's happening over the pond, with Trump's administration trying to blur the lines, bypass protocols & gain advantages by lying & bullying. Is this what we want here?

I've noticed opposition leaders have been very quiet over this, makes me wonder if they are doing the same thing and is glad the spotlight is on Cummings.

 

[The_Train]

The idea of going for a drive on non major roads to check your fitness to drive makes sense. The day of the family trip to Barnard Castle could have also been justified on the grounds of exercise (as the trip happened after all family members no longer had symptoms, and he had also been cleared by a doctor). Quite why a story about eyesight was given I don’t really understand.

But it couldn't be justified as exercise as it was at a time when we (by we, I mean the mere minions of the country) were still under the 1 outing for exercise per day and being told not to travel too far to conduct said exercise. Pretty sure Boris went to the specifics of stating we should do the exercise around the area we live - but eh Cummings was already 260 miles from there so why worry about another 30 miles?!?!?

On top of that there were many of the leading politicians such as Johnson, Gove et al throwing warnings out over the Easter weekend for people to maintain the lockdown restrictions and not go off to beauty spots. Maybe covid affected Cummings' hearing as well as sight......

And finally, I'm pretty sure that it wasn't much before this that the now infamous Derbyshire Police were sending up drones and shaming people on national TV for going off to the Peak District.

There is little to no justification for his trip to Durham in the first place. There is absolutely zero justification for his trip to Barnard Castle and his excuses for it are embarrassing and frankly shows how he views the British public's intelligence if he thinks people will believe his justification for it.

(Apologies if this has been covered further down the thread, playing catch up on it at the moment haha)

 

[ashkeba]

I find it astounding that some people would be so determined to avoid any possible breach of a law that carried a £30 fine that they would put their young children at risk of being left with incapacited parent(s). I am sure some people did that but they would have never have been fined if stopped by the police on the way to stay with their sister.

I do not share you belief in that. Single parents were told to contact social services for child help if they have no local family, specifically to avoid them taking the virus across country to family, so I think that the police who were then using drones to harass dog walkers would have known that and ordered ill single parents home even if they did not issue them a verbalised fine.

If Cummings needed help and felt he could not ask his local family for whatever reason, he should have done what his guidelines told others to do and called the council. Driving the length of the country was another wrong decision.

 

[ashkeba]

I've noticed opposition leaders have been very quiet over this, makes me wonder if they are doing the same thing and is glad the spotlight is on Cummings.

They have all spoken out. Is it that the media do not need to cover them when even government ministers are criticising?

 

[Darandio]

I've noticed opposition leaders have been very quiet over this, makes me wonder if they are doing the same thing and is glad the spotlight is on Cummings.

Really? Starmer has already said he would have sacked him.

 

[Vespa]

They have all spoken out. Is it that the media do not need to cover them when even government ministers are criticising?

I've seen nothing, no obvious links, chances are its been buried under the avalanche self righteous hypocrisy and media circus.

 

[baz962]

I've seen nothing, no obvious links, chances are its been buried under the avalanche self righteous hypocrisy and media circus.

No doubting that they are all as bad as each other. Don't forget that the Scottish Chief medical officer Dr Calderwood , had to go in the end.

 

[ashkeba]

No doubting that they are all as bad as each other. Don't forget that the Scottish Chief medical officer Dr Calderwood , had to go in the end.

And she went on 5 April, a week before Teflon Don's jolly to Barnard Castle. He should have known when he made that trip that it was a sacking offence. He does not seem to think that rules apply to him.

 

[ainsworth74]

I've noticed opposition leaders have been very quiet over this, makes me wonder if they are doing the same thing and is glad the spotlight is on Cummings.

I've seen nothing, no obvious links, chances are its been buried under the avalanche self righteous hypocrisy and media circus.

Keir Starmer:

Keir Starmer on Twitter

“The Prime Minister has treated the British people with contempt. One rule for Dominic Cummings, another for everybody else. https://t.co/XIFCztZnbu”

twitter.com

Nicola Sturgeon:

Nicola Sturgeon on Twitter

“I know it is tough to lose a trusted adviser at the height of crisis, but when it’s a choice of that or integrity of vital public health advice, the latter must come first. That’s the judgment I and, to her credit, Catherine Calderwood reached. PM and Cummings should do likewise.”

twitter.com

Lib Dems (don't think they have a leader at the mo):

Liberal Democrats on Twitter

“Dominic Cummings has shown that these sacrifices by millions of people don’t matter to him. His refusal to have the decency to apologise is an insult to us all. It reveals the worst of his elitist arrogance. Cummings must go. https://t.co/xXF5hGowIk”

twitter.com

SDLP and Alliance:

SDLP leader Colum Eastwood has called on the Prime Minister to sack Dominic Cummings and prove that "the privileged Tory elite" are not unaccountable.

And Alliance deputy leader Stephen Farry said the actions of Boris Johnson and his special adviser conveyed "a sense of entitlement and hypocrisy".

SDLP and Alliance call on Prime Minister to remove aide Cummings over his 264-mile trip

SDLP leader Colum Eastwood has called on the Prime Minister to sack Dominic Cummings and prove that "the privileged Tory elite" are not unaccountable.

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk

None of the above were particularly hard to find with just a quick Google.

 

[Vespa]

No doubting that they are all as bad as each other. Don't forget that the Scottish Chief medical officer Dr Calderwood , had to go in the end.

They all are in the end, neither Labour, LibDems, SNP, Plaid Cymru nor is the Conservatives can claim to be the paragon of virtue.

Memory is short and limited when you have a political axe to grind that in the heat of righteous rage they forget their own errors of judgements, glass houses and stones comes to mind.

 

[baz962]

And she went on 5 April, a week before Teflon Don's jolly to Barnard Castle. He should have known when he made that trip that it was a sacking offence. He does not seem to think that rules apply to him.

The thing with it all and makes me laugh. His excuses make no sense and are very tenuous . He went on to Barnard castle on his wife's birthday and this was almost certainly a jolly , got spotted and pretends it's for childcare. In my view.

 

[Geezertronic]

Self isolate if anyone has symptoms for 14 day's , stay in primary residence etc.

So in your opinion, the "reasonable excuse" answer does not apply here?

 

[Djgr]

They all are in the end, neither Labour, LibDems, SNP, Plaid Cymru nor is the Conservatives can claim to be the paragon of virtue.

Memory is short and limited when you have a political axe to grind that in the heat of righteous rage they forget their own errors of judgements, glass houses and stones comes to mind.

Of course in the end this will all go away but the fact that Boris' approval ratings have fallen by 20% since the weekend suggests that it is NOT simply a minority who are concerned about this appalling behaviour.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So in your opinion, the "reasonable excuse" answer does not apply here?

If you're not even allowed to go food shopping, I don't see how driving to the other end of the country could in any way be acceptable.

 

[Western Sunset]

I just wish journalists would ask the cabinet ministers who have been trooped out to support Mr Cummings one question. "Do you truly believe, hand on heart, what you are telling us?"

 

[baz962]

So in your opinion, the "reasonable excuse" answer does not apply here?

That's my opinion , yes.