Problems caused by lack of public toilets

[AM9]

It is political as it implies that a long gone politician made permanent changes to society that can never be reversed

For a start we had 13 years of Labour during this period, and they could have devoted more money to local councils or to public toilet provision if they had wanted.

Compared to 27 years, there was too much else to fix in 13 if you want to get political, - and way off-topic.

 

[Tom B]

The lack of lavatorial provision is a long-standing issue. As referred to upthread, it is not a statutory service and anything non-statutory from Councils will come under increasing scrutiny; aside from the covid issue, we all know of the impending crisis in ASC. It will be easy enough to say "ah, well, we can't make them comply with social pisstancing therefore we'll have to close them all" whilst happily scratching a line out of their budget. Few local authorities provide them comprehensively and reliably; Edinburgh and St Albans are high up the list.

 

[AM9]

The lack of lavatorial provision is a long-standing issue. As referred to upthread, it is not a statutory service and anything non-statutory from Councils will come under increasing scrutiny; aside from the covid issue, we all know of the impending crisis in ASC. It will be easy enough to say "ah, well, we can't make them comply with social pisstancing therefore we'll have to close them all" whilst happily scratching a line out of their budget. Few local authorities provide them comprehensively and reliably; Edinburgh and St Albans are high up the list.

That's right. In ordinary time, toilets are convenient (pun intended), but in the big scheme of things, they sit well behind underfunded care provisions, a desperate shortage of social housing, poor funding of police, inadequate recycling and refuse provisions, etc., so the things that can be done without are first to be dropped. Just because there aren't the usual facilities available in hostelries about towns and hotspots, doesn't mean that there is a magic money tree to build Nightingale toilets in a couple of weeks so that crowds can throng to locations on sunny days. People going out will just have to take responsibility for their needs and plan their day around it.

 

[Tom B]

That's right. In ordinary time, toilets are convenient (pun intended), but in the big scheme of things, sit well behind underfunded care provisions, a desperate shortage of social housing, poor funding of police, inadequate recycling and refuse provisions, etc., so the things that can be done without are first to be dropped.

I'd venture that the option of charging is probably not worth it - the infrastructure is expensive, fees are low, and modern turnstyles (such as those installed in the Royal Parks) are trivial to overcome.

Of course, the street-sweepers will need to be issued with additional cartons of disinfectant to deal with the side effects of such closures, which will cost.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd venture that the option of charging is probably not worth it - the infrastructure is expensive, fees are low, and modern turnstyles (such as those installed in the Royal Parks) are trivial to overcome.

The Lake District National Park have done it with magnetic door locks in all of theirs, which is probably a lot cheaper. Does mean people tailgate, but they will likely get one fee per family at least.

 

[Devonian]

The loss of public lavatories is indeed a long term problem that stretches back before the 1980s: once upon a time public conveniences routinely charged for use, and thanks to lower costs and relatively higher charges could be self supporting; the standard one penny charge in Victorian times would be equivalent to about 50p in 2020 (higher than most current charges), and the revenue from a single (attended) Victorian convenience could be the equivalent of over £20k today. But costs rose while charges stagnated, and the Turnstile Act of 1963 effectively prevented councils for charging for urinals, making it difficult for councils - of any political hue - to charge for public loos at all without discriminating against women. The act's financial redress for councils was removed in 1981.

That has made conveniences a steadily increasing burden for councils (who even had to pay business rates on them until recently) and an easy target for cuts. Add to that the difficulty of making them accessible or addressing a long-term backlog of maintenance and refurbishment, plus 'anti-social behaviour' of all sorts dissuading people from using them, and you have a perfect recipe for closure that has seen public loos dwindle since the 'seventies, with an acceleration of closures during 'austerity'. As an example, there were 65 conveniences in Glasgow in 1970, and just nine today (which is eight more than Manchester).

As for Coronavirus, surface-to-hand-to-face transmission of any germ should be something is limited within a convenience if anyone has an ounce of common sense: to touch your face after touching the surfaces in any lavatory at any time risks infection from all sorts of bugs; and hands should always be washed before leaving (cue eye rolling/guilty looks - but it's a civic duty now!), though automatic handwashes may need to be adjusted to allow longer washing cycles. The principal transmission vectors are likely to be the exterior doors and atmospheric droplets. The former can be mitigated by propping the doors open; the latter is much more tricky. How do you ensure that the fresh air circulation is sufficient to prevent germs lingering in the air? And even if you limit the spacing at the urinals, it is difficult to keep six feet apart while moving through the circulation spaces, using the washbasins etc. How do you know how many people are already inside a convenience before you enter? That's why it is being suggested that there will be a move to single-compartment facilities in the future, possibly with basins outside. If councils/central government can find the cash or will to do so.

Public lavatories are desperately needed by many people, whether due to medical needs or simply because they work outdoors or have no home to go to: they ought to be properly funded and available to all. We can surely afford to give people somewhere to perform a biological function that they cannot avoid. In a civilised, relatively prosperous, society it ought not be a choice between dignified urination or social care.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In a civilised, relatively prosperous, society it ought not be a choice between dignified urination or social care.

And #2. The way things are now those with Crohn's and the likes can't use many parks etc. It's easy to take a quick wee behind a tree if you're male (which is why it's also gender discriminatory), but for #2 much less easy.

 

[Devonian]

And changing sanitary products, nappies for babies and incontinent adults, colostomy bags... all things that tend to be forgotten when 'spending a penny' is discussed. The 'lavatory leash' is real and discriminatory to a wide range of people.

 

[Bletchleyite]

And changing sanitary products, nappies for babies and incontinent adults, colostomy bags... all things that tend to be forgotten when 'spending a penny' is discussed. The 'lavatory leash' is real and discriminatory to a wide range of people.

It's a genuine fear. I'm 40 and I have a tiny bladder, which is an amusing thought for anyone who has met me given the size of the rest of me. (This sounds a bit like an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting, but bear with me...) I'm genuinely concerned what it will be like when I'm 70. I might even have to consider catheterisation at that point - and with CCTV and the likes likely to be even more widespread than now weeing behind a bush will be even harder!

(No, I don't believe I have a medical condition, I've always been like that)

 

[LAX54]

By the same arguments, there's no need to clean supermarket trolley handles, bus and train handles etc., - just tell everybody to wear gloves and/or carry sanitiser. I haven't seen any conditions like that mentioned.

some have said gloves make it worse, but all you need as said is a small bottle of 'gel' and use it frequently, my wife has done this for years !

 

[Devonian]

It's a genuine fear.

You are not alone. A 2018 survey for the Royal Society of Public Health reported that 1 in 5 respondents cited the need for a lavatory as limiting their ability to go out as often as they would like. 56% drink less if they are going out in order to reduce the need for the loo. 16% reported having to urinate in the open air 'several times a year'. This is not a trivial problem.

 

[Mugby]

Are toilets on trains locked out of use at the present time?

 

[Cowley]

You are not alone. A 2018 survey for the Royal Society of Public Health reported that 1 in 5 respondents cited the need for a lavatory as limiting their ability to go out as often as they would like. 56% drink less if they are going out in order to reduce the need for the loo. 16% reported having to urinate in the open air 'several times a year'. This is not a trivial problem.

Yes quite.
It’s not something that I’ve personally suffered with - although it’s remarkable how much you feel that you need to urinate when you suddenly realise that the places you’d normally take for granted aren’t open anymore...

I can easily imagine that it’s a major problem for many people, and even at the level @Bletchleyite has spoken about you can see how people would decide that it’s just not quite worth the worry when deciding to go out or not.

 

[MikeWM]

Are toilets on trains locked out of use at the present time?

They weren't on the trains I've been on in the last week.

For stations I can offer a sample of three : Ely and Norwich closed, Cambridge open.

 

[PG]

With the closure of so many public toilets we are having to rely more and more on pubs, cafes and garden centres, but this is not possible in the current situation. Also when open, unlike in many continental areas, toilets in these places are often for patrons only.

Maybe not directly relevant (yet) but when hospitality establishments reopen any which serve alcohol also have to offer tap water free, unless I'm mistaken. Therefore in order to make use of facilities which are for patrons only request some tap water first.

 

[yorksrob]

Maybe not directly relevant (yet) but when hospitality establishments reopen any which serve alcohol also have to offer tap water free, unless I'm mistaken. Therefore in order to make use of facilities which are for patrons only request some tap water first.

Given these places are likely to be struggling, at least buy a packet of scampi fries or something if you can though.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Given these places are likely to be struggling, at least buy a packet of scampi fries or something if you can though.

Other brands of potato based snack are also available!

Quite agree with the lack of WCs being rather unacceptable. I for one would gladly pay 20p to visit if it is kept clean etc.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Maybe not directly relevant (yet) but when hospitality establishments reopen any which serve alcohol also have to offer tap water free, unless I'm mistaken. Therefore in order to make use of facilities which are for patrons only request some tap water first.

I wish such establishments would just offer toilets for use at a fee, say £1, turning them into a profit centre in their own right. I don't mind paying for use of the facilities, I just don't like them being unavailable or awkward conversations.

 

[yorksrob]

Other brands of potato based snack are also available!

Quite agree with the lack of WCs being rather unacceptable. I for one would gladly pay 20p to visit if it is kept clean etc.

Indeed. The Station Inn at Ribblehead asks for a donation to the mountain rescue I think, if you're not buying.

 

[westv]

They weren't on the trains I've been on in the last week.

For stations I can offer a sample of three : Ely and Norwich closed, Cambridge open.

The last I heard was that the ones at Hull were closed.

 

[Andy Pacer]

The last I heard was that the ones at Hull were closed.

Derby's bus station has been closed with the buses leaving from the nearby street stands, thus leaving no toilet provision.

 

[Jimini]

The ones I've used in the last month or so: Reading and Richmond stations (both open), and the on board loos on SWR and GWR are also available.

 

[Trackman]

The last I heard was that the ones at Hull were closed.

They are very grim the toilets at Hull.
If I was desperate I would wait until I'm on the train.

 

[Trackman]

I was at a funeral a few weeks back and wanted to use the loos at the crem.
The undertakers said I couldn't, so I went to have a look and there was a sign on the door.
I spotted this bloke in an office and asked him where he would go!
He said 'There' pointing at the toilet door and remarked it was unlocked (in fact it didnt have a lock).
Apparently he said the council wanted to protect their workers and only council workers could use it.

 

[greyman42]

The problem being you'd have to close 3 out of every 4 to keep people 2m apart.

There has not been any changes to the gents urinals at York station.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The last I heard was that the ones at Hull were closed.

Went to Bedford earlier and stopped at Marston Moretaine BP services, the toilets were in normal use with no modifications for distancing at all.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There has not been any changes to the gents urinals at York station.

I suppose, to be fair, it is usual for gentlemen to choose to "socially distance" at urinals, particularly those without partitions, so there is no real need to enforce this as it enforces itself.

 

[Tetchytyke]

We saw the effect recently in Kent, with people defecating on the beach because there was nowhere else to go. It's not pleasant, and those people shouldn't have really been at the beach, but if you need to go you need to go.

Our toilets have stayed open the whole time, even when the only shops open were essential shops. I think the hygiene issue is an excuse; when you think of all the doors and street furniture you touch when out and about, one more on the way out of the loo isn't going to make a difference. And before you leave the loo, you will wash your hands, won't you?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

They are very grim the toilets at Hull.

Ain't that the truth?! A previous visit prompted a complaint letter to TPE (= station managers?) about broken cubicle door locks at Hull station.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ain't that the truth?! A previous visit prompted a complaint letter to TPE (= station managers?) about broken cubicle door locks at Hull station.

They were an utter blot on what was quite a nice classic station when I was there.