Is it time to relax the 2m social distancing guideline? (WHO guidance is 1m)

[Socanxdis]

Well it's down to 2cms at the Parliament Square protest

 

[Weekender]

Now the WHO have given way to political pressure and changed their advice on the wearing of masks, who’s to say they won’t change their minds over social distancing next.
from my recent experience most people seem to already have changed to one metre and if it was officially reduced they would give up on it altogether.

 

[45107]

Now the WHO have given way to political pressure and changed their advice on the wearing of masks, who’s to say they won’t change their minds over social distancing next.
from my recent experience most people seem to already have changed to one metre and if it was officially reduced they would give up on it altogether.

Political pressure from who ?

 

[Huntergreed]

Well it's down to 2cms at the Parliament Square protest

I expect a rather firm reminder from our gracious leader at Monday’s briefing about the complete disregard for public health displayed all over the country this weekend.

I cannot see social distancing being viable as a long term approach to rebuilding society, but at this stage we really need to get the spread down as much as possible, and the lack of compliance shown today is going to warrant some consideration as this alone could have caused thousands of cases (and possibly deaths).

 

[BJames]

Round here they have got significantly longer!

Here too with no signs of abating. KFC's still got its long queues and that reopened quite a few weeks ago now. A lot of people getting around the "delivery only" by ordering their order outside the branch!

 

[BJames]

I expect a rather firm reminder from our gracious leader at Monday’s briefing about the complete disregard for public health displayed all over the country this weekend.

I cannot see social distancing being viable as a long term approach to rebuilding society, but at this stage we really need to get the spread down as much as possible, and the lack of compliance shown today is going to warrant some consideration as this alone could have caused thousands of cases (and possibly deaths).

It's interesting though because the stance taken by Hancock at the briefing was basically that remember gatherings of over 6 people are banned so please don't go. I can't see that changing the minds of people who were planning to go. Outside of London, I saw that for example, in Nottingham the protest is being moved from Old Market Square to the Forest Recreation Ground, a much larger space "so that people can social distance" - nice idea, but the size of Hyde Park and the amount of social distancing going on there proved that sometimes ideas are more sensible on paper than in reality.

But back to the 1 metre thing, seems that Chris Whitty is standing firm in his stance that this should be 2 metres for the duration of the epidemic, while Boris is anxious to get it down to 1 metre!

 

[Bald Rick]

Leaving the protests to one side, gatherings are currently limited to 6 people max, outside on private premises, with everyone keeping 2m apart.

If the private premises is big enough (say, a privately owned parkland, but with public access), how far apart do the groups need to be?

For example, could you have 3 groups of six, with no one closer than 2 metres apart?

Asking for a friend.

 

[Bantamzen]

Now the WHO have given way to political pressure and changed their advice on the wearing of masks, who’s to say they won’t change their minds over social distancing next.
from my recent experience most people seem to already have changed to one metre and if it was officially reduced they would give up on it altogether.

Political pressure from who ?

Well thus far, despite the change in advice, the WHO have failed to update their website with the scientific evidence that they cited during the press conference. Which is strange, so it does lead to the question just why did they change it? One suggestion might be pressure from governments committed to enforcing mandatory mask wearing.

 

[45107]

Well thus far, despite the change in advice, the WHO have failed to update their website with the scientific evidence that they cited during the press conference. Which is strange, so it does lead to the question just why did they change it? One suggestion might be pressure from governments committed to enforcing mandatory mask wearing.

Possibly this (link to a pdf on the WHO website, dated 5/6/20).

https://apps.who.int/iris/rest/bitstreams/1279750/retrieve

 

[Ivor]

The 2m has already been relaxed or in some cases done away with all together as I’ve seen on sunny days at a seaside main line station I work at when asking people to leave by big gates & politely remind them to keep social distancing with a good number aiming expletives & insults to staff in relation to social distancing.

With the demonstrations here & across the world showing total disregard for social distancing & I must say the George Floyd death was appalling & I too was totally angered watching on the media, those responsible hopefully will be punished accordingly.

‘Close up’ violence in cities towards police has ensued along with looting yet let me get back to the UK ‘rule’ the majority have adhered to ‘the rules’ for months quite rightly but now more disease will be spread & lives lost so is there any point in bothering with any distancing?

I ask this in a fit of temper this morning & should put my sensible head back on but like many of us the ‘rule breaking’ has really got to me.

 

[yorkie]

The 2m guideline isn't really a rule as such but more a guideline. I agree it's de facto been abolished in most aspects of public life, and only really exists in certain settings, and even then is not actually enforceable.

Before posting in this thread can I just ask people to check if there is a more suitable thread to post in first (depending on what you wish to say), as we don't want to stray too far from the thread title.

There are alternative threads for demonstrations, masks and many other topics; in fact we now have around 300 threads in the Covid 19 section alone.

Thanks

 

[northernchris]

I'm far more scared for the economy than I am for the virus. The number of small business (in particular cafes and pubs) that are saying they'll struggle to even break even with distancing measures in place is disheartening and I really feel for all those that the government are almost forcing to lose their jobs through implementing overly cautious distancing measures at the expense of livelihood (and Hancock almost confirmed tonight that we're sticking with 2m until the end)

That's interesting as the Independent are reporting that Boris is reportedly looking at reducing social distancing to 1m to save jobs in the hospitability sector

June 22 plan for reopening of England’s pubs and restaurants by 'save summer six' ministers

Government considering speeding up timetable in bid to save millions of jobs

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Cowley]

That's interesting as the Independent are reporting that Boris is reportedly looking at reducing social distancing to 1m to save jobs in the hospitability sector

June 22 plan for reopening of England’s pubs and restaurants by 'save summer six' ministers

Government considering speeding up timetable in bid to save millions of jobs

www.independent.co.uk

I really do hope that that happens.
It’s taken decades to build the pub sector back into something that this country can be proud of, and to see all that hard work demolished in the space of a few months is desperately sad (I know people in the industry that I’m extremely worried for).

 

[yorksrob]

I really do hope that that happens.
It’s taken decades to build the pub sector back into something that this country can be proud of, and to see all that hard work demolished in the space of a few months is desperately sad (I know people in the industry that I’m extremely worried for).

I also hope that that's true.

Persisting with 2m will be a disaster once businesses are expected to reopen and they can't get rid of it soon enough.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

That's interesting as the Independent are reporting that Boris is reportedly looking at reducing social distancing to 1m to save jobs in the hospitability sector

June 22 plan for reopening of England’s pubs and restaurants by 'save summer six' ministers

Government considering speeding up timetable in bid to save millions of jobs

www.independent.co.uk

It can't come soon enough! But to be honest, I think it's time to make social distancing optional for places such as pubs and small shops as even 1 metre might be too restrictive and may cause needless conflict with panicky people who take the guidelines too literally.

Any retailer wishing to opt out of social distancing would simply put a sign up on the door along the lines of "social distancing not practiced here. If this bothers you do not enter".

 

[C J Snarzell]

I personally have had a few good discussions with my dad about social distancing.

As I have said on previous threads - pubs, bars, nightclubs, restaurants, sporting venues, to name but a few cannot work with the two metre rule.

I do think Boris Johnson will have to look at wavering social distancing because we are already seeing the economic casualties of Covid19 with businesses confirming they will not reopen and many people losing their jobs. Even if BJ reduces it to 1 metre this will be far more manageable. When I worked in the police anything less than 1 metre is classed as going into someone's personal space which none us do anyway except in extreme circumstances (ie. being on a packed train at rush hour!).

As someone has said previously - Chris Whitty is a medical advisor and not a member of Parliament. He is honestly not going to agree to reduce two metre social distancing and then hundreds more people die of the disease afterwards!!!

Whitty and his team will always advise on extreme caution to anything health wise. Another example of this is alcohol consumption - the Chief Medical Officer (Whitty) states the recommended safe alcohol consumption per week is 14 units. If you drink 5/6 pints of lager over the course of a week then in theory Whitty is saying you are drinking too much & may be classed as alcohol misuse! Ridiculous - there are millions of people in this country who drink well beyond 14 units and have a safe relationship with alcohol & are in perfect health.

Going back to the topic of social distancing - I personally believe it should be more 'encouraged' rather than 'enforced'. I do think that sterile environments such as hospitals, clinics, doctors surgeries, dental practices need to have a strict policy in place because of the vulnerability of some patients. I suspect many doctors will continue to operator now with more telephone appointments & reception areas being segragated.

As for anywhere else, I think it would be more practical simply to have signs & posters up reminding people to keep safe & don't encroach on someone else's personal space.

CJ

 

[NorthOxonian]

Going back to the topic of social distancing - I personally believe it should be more 'encouraged' rather than 'enforced'. I do think that sterile environments such as hospitals, clinics, doctors surgeries, dental practices need to have a strict policy in place because of the vulnerability of some patients. I suspect many doctors will continue to operator now with more telephone appointments & reception areas being segragated.

I would add to that list supermarkets and some other essential shops. It should be possible for those in the vulnerable groups to live a relatively normal life, without being put at risk. You can choose to avoid the pub but you can't really choose to avoid eating. One way this could be done (without massively affecting others) is for supermarkets/shopping centres to designate one day (or part of a day) where social distancing is in force, so all of the people with serious conditions or over the age of 75 could get their shopping in confidence.

 

[nlogax]

My guess is the government will just let the 2 meter rule fizzle out.. fewer people are going by it as the weeks go on and I don't see how it's possible to enforce it forever more. It'll be then down to individual business to do what works for them.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

The worst case scenario would be a compromise fudge where the government reduce it to 1.5 metres. This wouldn't make a blind bit of difference in practice but would mean all the retail outlets would have to tear up their exisitng floor markers and start from scratch.

 

[Huntergreed]

Sounds like 2m is here to stay for another few weeks. An official said 2m is “significantly safer than 1.5m or 1m” and that they’ll consider moving “only when it’s completely safe”, disappointing but predictable.

 

[C J Snarzell]

Huntergreed

My own view is that the 2 metre social distancing will probably be enforced until next month at least, maybe even August.

My barber who has not worked since the 23rd March, has been preparing for going back to work - which at the moment has been pencilled in for the 4th July (this could change of course).

He was telling me he is already preparing measures of safeguarding customers which include a 'one in, one out' scenario, no magazines to be used by customers & anyone turning up early for an appointment will simply have to wait outside (even if they are older gents not good on their feet). He said he will not be able to allow anyone in the shop who is just booking an appointment - this will only be done via telephone.

My point is that clearly to put barbers/hairdressers through this hard shift from early next month indicates the 2m social distancing rule will be around for sometime to come!!!

I anticipate that the government will keep their cards close to their chest about this in order to enforce their message about protecting lives of the vulnerable.

I personally predict that the social distancing rule will be gone by September at the latest around the time schools/colleges/universities commence the new terms.

CJ

 

[Class 33]

I personally predict that the social distancing rule will be gone by September at the latest around the time schools/colleges/universities commence the new terms.

CJ

Hope you're right on that. As I'm sick and tired of hearing and seeing "social distancing" umpteen times a day. Will be happy when it's finally gone.

To start getting the economy back to normal, we really can't continue with this 2 metre social distancing for too much longer now.

 

[Jamesrob637]

I personally predict that the social distancing rule will be gone by September at the latest around the time schools/colleges/universities commence the new terms.

Reasonable thoughts. Along with queueing for shops as the weather gets worse (it can often still be okay in early-October).

 

[C J Snarzell]

Class 33

I totally agree mate. The two words 'social distancing' are beginning to grate on me now. The weekly shop at Sainsburys now feels like queuing up for a ride at Alton Towers.

I suspect that the Education Secretary's decision not to let many pupils return to their schools until September may support the theory that come September classrooms will be back to normal like everywhere else and the government are eager to continue to enforce the SD for a few more weeks to come.

CJ

 

[Bletchleyite]

I anticipate that the government will keep their cards close to their chest about this in order to enforce their message about protecting lives of the vulnerable.

The other reason they'll keep it quiet until they are announcing it is that if they announce that from next Monday you can do X, people will do X straight away. So expect any loosening of 2m, meeting indoors with other households or increases in group size to be announced with immediate effect or very near to it (e.g. Sunday evening for implementation the following day).

That isn't possible in the same way for opening of businesses as they need time to prepare.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

The other reason they'll keep it quiet until they are announcing it is that if they announce that from next Monday you can do X, people will do X straight away.

Very true. As there are now no government briefings over the weekend, hopefully the reduction to 1 metre will be announced in Friday's briefing. I believe Boris had promised to personally do one briefing a week himself so maybe he's saving it for his own briefing rather than let one of his cabinet break the good news!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Very true. As there are now no government briefings over the weekend, hopefully the reduction to 1 metre will be announced in Friday's briefing. I believe Boris had promised to personally do one briefing a week himself so maybe he's saving it for his own briefing rather than let one of his cabinet break the good news!

I wouldn't expect it this Friday. It seems to be a view in those giving the advice that the protests have set us back a bit.

 

[C J Snarzell]

I wouldn't expect it this Friday. It seems to be a view in those giving the advice that the protests have set us back a bit.

The problem with the recent protests is that figures for new cases may not flag up straight away & Boris Johnson will clearly want a full overview of any spike in cases that have potentially been caused by the hundreds/thousands of people who took part in these events before he makes his decision about the 2 metre rule. If there is an influx of new cases, I cannot see BJ making any drastic changes to social distancing even if this is detrimental to many businesses who are already struggling financially.

CJ

 

[Bletchleyite]

The problem with the recent protests is that figures for new cases may not flag up straight away & Boris Johnson will clearly want a full overview of any spike in cases that have potentially been caused by the hundreds/thousands of people who took part in these events before he makes his decision about the 2 metre rule. If there is an influx of new cases, I cannot see BJ making any drastic changes to social distancing even if this is detrimental to many businesses who are already struggling financially.

I would agree, and suspect the change of tune on schools is partly related to this. We are probably going to need to wait 3 weeks (to the 4th July) to see what happens before taking a further step now. I wholly understand and support the reasons for the protests, but more thought really should have gone into how they could have maintained distancing by the organisers. For instance, a long single-file 2m apart procession blocking many London streets at once would have had massive visual impact - a bit like the "Critical Mass" cycling protests you get from time to time.

 

[Mike395]

It works both ways though - if (as I'm optimistic might be the case) there's no increase in cases over the next few weeks despite the protests, it could lead to a quicker ultimate easing of lockdown than we would have had without the protests this last weekend happening at all.