DfT advise TOCs that full timetable is to be restored on 6 July

[infobleep]

Not understood why GTR needed to run a Saturday timetable. Do they have less people working from home than say SWR?

 

[Hadders]

Not understood why GTR needed to run a Saturday timetable. Do they have less people working from home than say SWR?

On the GN side the Saturday timetable is pretty much the same as the weekday timetable. The only exceptions are a few extras in the peaks.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Northern, on their timetables page, are now referring to 'temporary timetable' rather than 'key workers timetable'.

Northern Timetables

I do hope the key workers are prepared to share their personal trains effective from 6 July.

 

[Huntergreed]

Northern, on their timetables page, are now referring to 'temporary timetable' rather than 'key workers timetable'.

Northern Timetables

I do hope the key workers are prepared to share their personal trains effective from 6 July.

This sounded positive until I looked right below it!

Temporary timetable for key workers and essential journeys

 

[YorksDMU]

This sounded positive until I looked right below it!

That is so annoying. Will Northern ever learn? But, despite that, I will continue to use the train.

 

[Jamesrob637]

That is so annoying. Will Northern ever learn? But, despite that, I will continue to use the train.

Two hourly Manchester to Chester via Northwich from the 06 July. How is that an improvement?! That's the SUNDAY frequency!

 

[YorksDMU]

And I’ve just checked the Tempory Timetables for Hull to Scarborough, Hull to York, and Hull to Sheffield from the 6th July, and everything remains totally unchanged. Every two hours between Hull and Scarborough, no afternoon service Hull to York. What a big disappointment this is. One minute to change trains between the train arriving in Hull from Scarborough to connect into one of the infrequent Sheffield services.
I think I’ll be making a complaint to my MP. Or at least I would if I thought it would do any good. But not Northern since it would be a total waste of time.

 

[bramling]

On the GN side the Saturday timetable is pretty much the same as the weekday timetable. The only exceptions are a few extras in the peaks.

I have to say GTR have been pretty good through all this. What they have committed to operate has generally run reliably, and they haven’t gone for some of the stupidity we’ve seen elsewhere like seats being taped out of use. The only visible interior change to GTR trains is a yellow label in the door windows, apart from that the experience is reassuringly normal.

On the matter of timetables GTR have the benefit of being flush with rolling stock, especially on the Thameslink side, in that they can run a full off-peak service with long trains, and not have to decide where they’re going to rob Peter to pay Paul. Something like Northern or the rural parts of EMR must be a nightmare.

 

[yorksrob]

Northern, on their timetables page, are now referring to 'temporary timetable' rather than 'key workers timetable'.

Northern Timetables

I do hope the key workers are prepared to share their personal trains effective from 6 July.

So we now have the economy opening up on the 7th and a call by Government for something approaching normal timetabling, yet Northern, in splendid isolation is refusing to run a service for its ordinary customers, whilst large swathes of the network continue to be hobbled with unusable timetables.

I'm coming to the conclusion that "Northern Rail" as an entity needs to be dispanded and it's routes reintegrated with the rest of thew wider network.

 

[Bald Rick]

So we now have the economy opening up on the 7th and a call by Government for something approaching normal timetabling, yet Northern, in splendid isolation is refusing to run a service for its ordinary customers, whilst large swathes of the network continue to be hobbled with unusable timetables.

I'm coming to the conclusion that "Northern Rail" as an entity needs to be dispanded and it's routes reintegrated with the rest of thew wider network.

Northern have been particularly badly hit by the virus, and especially the cessation of driver training. I’m sure they are operating as many services as they can within the resources available.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Northern have been particularly badly hit by the virus, and especially the cessation of driver training. I’m sure they are operating as many services as they can within the resources available.

That is rather difficult to believe. Before the virus the driver training situation had calmed down somewhat, and whilst admittedly on Sundays there were often lots of (pre-planned) cancellations, the Monday-Saturday service was generally OK.

I suspect this is just Northern being Northern; making a timetable that 'justifies' telling people they must not make non-essential journeys even though the government advises otherwise (and the law has allowed them to a greater or lesser extent throughout the pandemic).

 

[yorksrob]

Northern have been particularly badly hit by the virus, and especially the cessation of driver training. I’m sure they are operating as many services as they can within the resources available.

Badly hit by investment decisions in the noughties, badly hit by industrial action two years ago, badly hit by coronavirus, badly hit by everything.

Take the line through Bentham. It was run with 158's before the lockdown. It's not getting new trains, so no training requirement there, yet it has one train from Leeds at about 7 in the morning, followed by one at 13:15.

The so-called "workers trains" arrive in Lancaster at either 6:31 or 10:06, which doesn't strike me as particularly employment friendly.

 

[LAX54]

GEML @ Colchester in the 'peak' there are just 3 x 4 cars left in the c/sdgs, over the past few weeks, some of the early moring ones have been made up to 12 going to London, then 4 taken off on the return, reattaching for the evening runs, there is now an 'additional' 0534 Colchester to London, which is 1Y01 ex Ipswich starting Colchester, all through this panic, sorry.... pandemic, apart from some peak services, from Colchester towards London, we have only lost 2 trains an hour 1X InterCity and the hourly Colchester Town to London.

 

[Bald Rick]

That is rather difficult to believe. Before the virus the driver training situation had calmed down somewhat, and whilst admittedly on Sundays there were often lots of (pre-planned) cancellations, the Monday-Saturday service was generally OK.

Trouble is that drivers don’t stop leaving just because there’s a virus on, and when you can’t train their replacements ....

Also Northern had (and continue to have) more people off work with the virus and shielding than any other operator.

I don’t have the numbers (and wouldn’t post them if I could), but I’d be surprised if they weren’t several hundred drivers short (in terms of be8ng fully productive) across their Network.

Take the line through Bentham. It was run with 158's before the lockdown. It's not getting new trains, so no training requirement there, yet it has one train from Leeds at about 7 in the morning, followed by one at 13:15

A perfect example. I don’t know where that line is crewed from - presumably Skipton and Leeds. Presumably the drivers also operate other services. With a resource base limited below normal, the planners have to take the difficult call of which services to remove, and will aim to remove those that affect the fewest people. Or put another way, they will aim to run as many services, for as many passengers for the resources they have.

Re the training, it won’t all be traction conversion for new stock, indeed I’d be surprised if that was even half of it. It’s just as much about training new drivers, and getting route knowledge for each driver to become fully productive. Given that a significant number of drivers haven’t been near a train for nearly 4 months, many will have lost routes from their route card, and currently can’t get them back.

 

[johntea]

Travelled on the 07:15 Knottingley to Leeds and now the 08:09 Leeds to Knaresborough, probably the first ‘peak’ services I’ve caught since lockdown and both very lightly loaded

Although I think the timetables for these lines have remained fairly normal, at the start of things they cut the Knaresborough terminators and just ran the York (via Harrogate) services but quickly reinstated the additional services with it being a key route and now a Nightingale location

The thing that perhaps shocked me the most was how quiet Leeds station was, probably more staff roaming around than passengers!

158s and 170s, not seen anything else post lockdown!

 

[Bletchleyite]

The so-called "workers trains" arrive in Lancaster at either 6:31 or 10:06, which doesn't strike me as particularly employment friendly.

I don't think the service on that line has ever been particularly anything-friendly. It's one of those "we'll do what we can be bothered" rural lines.

 

[Bald Rick]

I don't think the service on that line has ever been particularly anything-friendly. It's one of those "we'll do what we can be bothered" rural lines.

Quite. Even under the normal timetable the Lancaster arrivals are 0631 and 0913. Better, but not much!

 

[Bayum]

Does this mean people who are shielding will be ok to go back to work from that date?

No. Shielding individuals from the 1st August IF they cannot work from home, and only as long as the workplace is COVID secure if not.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Quite. Even under the normal timetable the Lancaster arrivals are 0631 and 0913. Better, but not much!

If they want commuters, they need an arrival around 0800 - early enough for retail staff to get set up before 0900 opening, and for University staff to connect there by bus, but not so early that you have to get up at 05something for a relatively local commute, as nobody will choose that. If they aren't going to do that they might as well do whatever, as people using it for a ride on the S&C or a day hike will just work around the timetable.

It's near useless for Leeds too.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Trouble is that drivers don’t stop leaving just because there’s a virus on, and when you can’t train their replacements ....

Also Northern had (and continue to have) more people off work with the virus and shielding than any other operator.

I don’t have the numbers (and wouldn’t post them if I could), but I’d be surprised if they weren’t several hundred drivers short (in terms of be8ng fully productive) across their Network.



A perfect example. I don’t know where that line is crewed from - presumably Skipton and Leeds. Presumably the drivers also operate other services. With a resource base limited below normal, the planners have to take the difficult call of which services to remove, and will aim to remove those that affect the fewest people. Or put another way, they will aim to run as many services, for as many passengers for the resources they have.

Re the training, it won’t all be traction conversion for new stock, indeed I’d be surprised if that was even half of it. It’s just as much about training new drivers, and getting route knowledge for each driver to become fully productive. Given that a significant number of drivers haven’t been near a train for nearly 4 months, many will have lost routes from their route card, and currently can’t get them back.

That is an issue that needs to be looked into in more detail and not just accepted as "how it is". I wouldn't be surprised if higher staff absence is fundamentally due to poor industrial relations rather than Northern staff actually being worse afflicted with the virus or with things that put them in the (very) high risk category.

 

[Bald Rick]

That is an issue that needs to be looked into in more detail and not just accepted as "how it is". I wouldn't be surprised if higher staff absence is fundamentally due to poor industrial relations rather than Northern staff actually being worse afflicted with the virus or with things that put them in the (very) high risk category.

I’m sure it has been looked in to - at length!

 

[Huntergreed]

On BBC Breakfast this morning a question was asked

I can fly from a UK airport abroad, but am I allowed to use public transport to get there?

The response

Right now public transport can be used for essential journeys only, but we’re expecting this to change in around 2 weeks

 

[Bald Rick]

On BBC Breakfast this morning a question was asked
...

Lockdown restrictions and social distancing eased from July 4th, timetables increase from July 6th, I’d have thought the next step was fairly obvious!

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I’m sure it has been looked in to - at length!

Well if it has, the outcome of the review hasn't been made very public. It's that kind of transparency that is needed to regain public trust!

 

[Starmill]

Well if it has, the outcome of the review hasn't been made very public. It's that kind of transparency that is needed to regain public trust!

You can't ask train operators to make public details that most businesses would tell you to shove off about if you asked. You can of course make the public interest argument, but in that case it's a matter for the government. Of course, you can now get some details through freedom of information.

However it doesn't seem to me that you actually want to know or have that much public interest in mind, merely that you're about to cast a cloud of suspicion on the staff.

 

[birchesgreen]

On BBC Breakfast this morning a question was asked

The response

Who answered that question? They are wrong.

 

[30907]

I don't think the service on that line has ever been particularly anything-friendly. It's one of those "we'll do what we can be bothered" rural lines.

...which had its service doubled a couple of years ago and a further train added since - which I agree would be better an hour earlier.

It's near useless for Leeds too.

Presume you mean the temporary timetable? The regular one is pretty good.

 

[yorksrob]

Trouble is that drivers don’t stop leaving just because there’s a virus on, and when you can’t train their replacements ....

Also Northern had (and continue to have) more people off work with the virus and shielding than any other operator.

I don’t have the numbers (and wouldn’t post them if I could), but I’d be surprised if they weren’t several hundred drivers short (in terms of be8ng fully productive) across their Network.



A perfect example. I don’t know where that line is crewed from - presumably Skipton and Leeds. Presumably the drivers also operate other services. With a resource base limited below normal, the planners have to take the difficult call of which services to remove, and will aim to remove those that affect the fewest people. Or put another way, they will aim to run as many services, for as many passengers for the resources they have.

Re the training, it won’t all be traction conversion for new stock, indeed I’d be surprised if that was even half of it. It’s just as much about training new drivers, and getting route knowledge for each driver to become fully productive. Given that a significant number of drivers haven’t been near a train for nearly 4 months, many will have lost routes from their route card, and currently can’t get them back.

I dare say that the problems with industrial relations earlier on are, to an extent, feeding into the current problems. Either way, Northern passengers get the mucky end of the stick.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that everything should be back to normal straight away. To take another example, the Hallam line has gone from three trains an hour to one. In the current circumstances that is a proportionate saving of resources which has left a useable service. What we've been left with on lines west of Skipton, Copy pit etc, and look likely to be stuck with even after the network should be opening up again, isn't.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Presume you mean the temporary timetable?

Yes. It's a bit incongruous having a policy of "commuting only", essentially, and not having a train timed usefully for most commuters

 

[Ianno87]

Who answered that question? They are wrong.

Not necessarily wrong if the question is "when will the operators still saying essential travel only stop saying it?"