Voluntry work, dont do it!!

[222666]

Some JSA claimants are being made to go out & do similar work to people being punished with community service. One is a punishment, one is not. Like being bussed to places to do gardening and/or litter picking; "jobs" in the community. We should not be treating unemployed as scroungers or criminals.

"Remind of anything" means persecution of "less desirable" people in society (dole scroungers?) in the name of "economy". Don't worry, the Tories haven't started gassing the unemployed yet, & sincerely hope Cameron isn't thinking of the "Final Solution".

Sorry it's bad taste to compare the two I just don't like the way Govt, are treating the unemployed at the moment. Basically calling disability claimants "liars" & making people prove they're not capable of working.

 

[ainsworth74]

Some JSA claimants are being made to go out & do similar work to people being punished with community service. One is a punishment, one is not.

Do you have any sources for this? The information I have seen of JSA is that a claimant is expected to be activly seeking employment, no mention of being forced to do work of any sort, just look for it which I think is a reasonable enough requirement.

"Remind of anything" means persecution of "less desirable" people in society (dole scroungers?) in the name of "economy". Don't worry, the Tories haven't started gassing the unemployed yet, & sincerely hope Cameron isn't thinking of the "Final Solution".

You are honestly comparing the Conservative party the the Nazi Party of Germany that commited the genocide of 6m Jews, Slavs and many others!? You can't actually be serious can you?

 

[richw]

using upper case is quite difficult when i have a baby in my lap holding her, leaving me one hand to type, quite inaccurately. i can't use the shift key at the same time as pressing letter keys, as i had previously explained in my last post. to what i can see this forum is just full of people who want to pick faults in each other's grammar rather than discuss the actual topic in question. this will leave people feeling negative about themselves, especially those with lack of confidence because they cant get a job, for whatever reason, without seeing his actual CV we can't comment about his formal literacy skills, for all we know he could only be applying for jobs he does not have experience for. the original poster raised his concerns about not getting a job, and rather than give advice that would help him or her, people are more concerned about his grammar and literacy in a forum post, which is an informal location for topical discussions. if you want to pick holes in peoples grammar become an exam marker for the relevant examination topics.
as far as i am aware if you are after a job that you need relevant qualifications, and courses the job centre will fund an appropriate course for the candidate, as long as the candidate shows enthusiasm towards the subject, the candidate can choose a course, and apply for funding for that course. a good friend has recently had a high level course funded to help him get qualifications required to carry out a job he's interested in, which is better for the job centre in the long term, as the course cost will be a lot lower than paying dole money out for long term, as the course will get him a job. the cost of most decent college courses are lower than a years dole money!

 

[scotsman]

Well, Cameron wants to give all 16 year olds the opportunity to do community projects to help their community - involving an 8 week residential and home based project(s). Sounds like national service to me.

 

[Railsigns]

using upper case is quite difficult when i have a baby in my lap holding her, leaving me one hand to type, quite inaccurately.

Well that is definitely the most entertaining excuse for sloppy typing I've ever heard!

 

[222666]

You are honestly comparing the Conservative party the the Nazi Party of Germany that commited the genocide of 6m Jews, Slavs and many others!? You can't actually be serious can you?

Nah I did say it was bad taste :roll:

A friend of the family has been made to do this (actually not sure if it was JSA or disability claim) but also involves going to college for basic computer training & other work experience type activies. Usually just a few times a week. This person is on the borderline of disability & they are disputing it. He is NOT a dole scrounger & would very much like a job, but having been out of work due to severe bronchial condition now finds himself in this situation where his dole claim is being dangled in front of him like a carrot on a stick. Ofcourse, his arms & legs are fully functional, but in his 50's is getting tired of being told to "just get a job". Employers do what THEY like, they are not forced into employing people they don't want to.

Basically they have to prove the eligibilty to claim AND prove they are out seeking work, this includes the work experience (as above). My point was they are being bullied into this in order to receive their dole money or else it is turned down.

 

[richw]

Well, Cameron wants to give all 16 year olds the opportunity to do community projects to help their community - involving an 8 week residential and home based project(s). Sounds like national service to me.

I think at 16, teenagers should have to go into further education, an apprenticeship or national service, with taking one of these options as being compulsary. Such schemes work well in several other countries.

 

[ainsworth74]

Well, Cameron wants to give all 16 year olds the opportunity to do community projects to help their community - involving an 8 week residential and home based project(s).

Having the opportunity to take part in something is radicaly different to being forced to do something against your will. May I ask for a source that shows that the Conservatives are going to force all 16 year olds to take part in this scheme?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I think at 16, teenagers should have to go into further education, an apprenticeship or national service, with taking one of these options as being compulsary. Such schemes work well in several other countries.

From 2013 school leaving age is going to be 18 anyway, with teenagers required to be in school/training/apprenticeship.

 

[richw]

Well that is definitely the most entertaining excuse for sloppy typing I've ever heard!

I know, but it really p**ses me off when you get people critisising others on the forum without knowing the reason behind the posters poor grammar. Another forum i use to view but never posted on, several members were ripping it out of someone's spelling and grammar. not one of them knew whether the poster in question had learning difficulties or anything that affected how he typed.

As a side note when i do type formally, i have competed Ba (hons) English Language, graduated with First Class Honours,

 

[ainsworth74]

Basically they have to prove the eligibilty to claim AND prove they are out seeking work, this includes the work experience (as above). My point was they are being bullied into this in order to receive their dole money or else it is turned down.

What's wrong with having to prove that you are both eligable to receive JSA and are activly seeking work? As for training and work experience again makes sense to me, provides skills that employers find desirable as well as experience which makes a person more employable. Why shouldn't they have to do these things because to me it seems it benfits the claimant to have more skills.

In the case of your friend if their breathing is such an issue that it makes it hard for them to work then they probably should be on DLA rather than JSA. But of course I don't know their situation well enough to really pass comment on them.

 

[richw]

But of course I don't know their situation well enough to really pass comment on them.

wow at last somebody not to pass judgement on someone on here without knowing the full circumstances!

 

[theblackwatch]

With regards to grammar on here, often it's not a case of picking fault - it's making it easy to follow. If people post in all capitals or lower case it makes it difficult. The odd spelling mistake, bit of dodgy grammar or typo isn't a problem though. From http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=27358 :

2c Do post in a way which is consistent with "normal writing" by avoiding excessive use of punctuation; large/small, uppercase or multicoloured text; "txt spk" or emoticons

 

[richw]

With regards to grammar on here, often it's not a case of picking fault - it's making it easy to follow. If people post in all capitals or lower case it makes it difficult. The odd spelling mistake, bit of dodgy grammar or typo isn't a problem though. From http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=27358 :

2c Do post in a way which is consistent with "normal writing" by avoiding excessive use of punctuation; large/small, uppercase or multicoloured text; "txt spk" or emoticons

Agreed but this is for a moderator to private message the offending poster and remind them and find out about the poster, rather than all to target the member publically for making a post for poor grammar. If someone has difficulties it can be quite humiliating and dent confidence having people publically slating you over something you can't help, and is in fact bullying, which i'm pretty certain would also be prohibited by forum rules. A quick PM by a moderator can determine whether the poster has such difficulties and not be humiliating to the poster! This needs reviewing as on several threads i've seen there are several posts publically critisising grammar and spelling. I really hope the members who've been critisised dont suffer from any condition that affects there ability to write in a correct manner.

 

[scotsman]

I think at 16, teenagers should have to go into further education, an apprenticeship or national service, with taking one of these options as being compulsary. Such schemes work well in several other countries.

National Service disgusts me, it effectively says - we don't care about you to the point that we'll happily ship you thousands of miles from home, where there's a fair chance of you being killed.

 

[richw]

National Service disgusts me, it effectively says - we don't care about you to the point that we'll happily ship you thousands of miles from home, where there's a fair chance of you being killed.

no i disagree with that, but something like the training side of it, and install discipline to the people who go for this option, you've got to be 18 to go to war at present, were talking 16-18 year olds, who'd go through the training, and probably install discipline and many other life skills in to the participants

 

[dan_atki]

Agreed but this is for a moderator to private message the offending poster and remind them and find out about the poster, rather than all to target the member publically for making a post for poor grammar.

'find out about the poster'? Are you proposing we PM members directly asking if they have been diagnosed with any condition which may affect their ability to write coherently? Is this not then us criticising them? And would they not feel rather victimised?

I think if the tables were turned and a moderator PMed me asking me personal info such as that then I'd be rather dismayed and upset, as well as targeted. Yes, I do see the point you are making but it really cannot work in the way you describe.

The best advice we can give is as yorkie regularly does in post 4 above to use the dictionary add on in Firefox.

On the other hand, if members with such conditions where they cannot write with the Queen's English want to make themselves known to the forum staff then they are more than welcome to, but we will not go searching for them nor ask personal questions.

If someone has difficulties it can be quite humiliating and dent confidence having people publically slating you over something you can't help, and is in fact bullying, which i'm pretty certain would also be prohibited by forum rules.

If anyone sees anything which can be construed as bullying or intimidating then they are also welcome to bring it to our attention by using the 'report post' button, found to the left of every post:

.

As soon as we receive a report we will review the post and decide on any action that needs to be taken, whether it be simply removing the post, PMing the poster, or giving them an infraction as per the forum rules.

 

[richw]

'find out about the poster'? Are you proposing we PM members directly asking if they have been diagnosed with any condition which may affect their ability to write coherently? Is this not then us criticising them? And would they not feel rather victimised?

i didnt think through that bit, but the approach should be by private message rather than having people publically commenting on someones grammar ability

The best advice we can give is as yorkie regularly does in post 4 above to use the dictionary add on in Firefox.

but unless the spelling roughly resembles the correct word this is useless

If anyone sees anything which can be construed as bullying or intimidating then they are also welcome to bring it to our attention by using the 'report post' button, found to the left of every post:

.

As soon as we receive a report we will review the post and decide on any action that needs to be taken, whether it be simply removing the post, PMing the poster, or giving them an infraction as per the forum rules.

useful to know, thanks

 

[scotsman]

no i disagree with that, but something like the training side of it, and install discipline to the people who go for this option, you've got to be 18 to go to war at present, were talking 16-18 year olds, who'd go through the training, and probably install discipline and many other life skills in to the participants

There's plenty of other ways to do that. If someone choses not (maybe they don't have a choice, one of my mates can't get an apprenticeship now) to, then the Gov't classes them as no good to society and decides that they need to have discipline installed as they are of no use to society, they have to be kept out the public's way.

 

[dan_atki]

i didnt think through that bit, but the approach should be by private message rather than having people publically commenting on someones grammar ability

But as I said, what exactly would we say to them via PM? Directly asking if they have a disability is unacceptable, and would make them feel targeted. I agree such things should be discussed in private and not in a public forum, but we have to be very careful in dealing with such sensitive issues. Indeed, what's to say they'd even open up to us via PM?

but unless the spelling roughly resembles the correct word this is useless

I don't think anybody on this forum has spelling that bad!

 

[ainsworth74]

There's plenty of other ways to do that.

I think there is something to be said for the German system, which requires all 18 year old men to either serve a 6 month period in the army (during which they can only be deployed overseas if they volunteer) or instead work for 6 months in a civilian institution that provides a public service like hospitals or elderly care homes. But I am certainly against classic national service or conscription.

 

[richw]

But as I said, what exactly would we say to them via PM? Directly asking if they have a disability is unacceptable, and would make them feel targeted. I agree such things should be discussed in private and not in a public forum, but we have to be very careful in dealing with such sensitive issues. Indeed, what's to say they'd even open up to us via PM?

I dont know what to say or how to, but PM is better than the present way its being done by any member commenting publically on the thread about someones spelling and grammar,
i will say this forum has probably the best levels of grammar of any forum i use, but when someone does write a post with poor grammar, you see a couple of posts underneath about the bad grammar rather than the topic being discussed, which is an issue that needs to be addressed. Being a forum can't see how its affecting the original poster behind their computer screen being critisised for poor spelling and grammar.

 

[robert2000]

My cv has been checked, I send them off for jobs and specs when theres no jobs, then I never hear back.

March 2009 was my last job interview, bear in mind that was befdore I started volunteering, so obviously the volunteering part has gone wrong.

 

[Engineer EA]

I know, but it really p**ses me off when you get people critisising others on the forum without knowing the reason behind the posters poor grammar. Another forum i use to view but never posted on, several members were ripping it out of someone's spelling and grammar. not one of them knew whether the poster in question had learning difficulties or anything that affected how he typed.

As a side note when i do type formally, i have competed Ba (hons) English Language, graduated with First Class Honours,

You can call me old fashioned, but I think someone of your calibre should be setting an example to the rest of us!!

 

[richw]

My cv has been checked, I send them off for jobs and specs when theres no jobs, then I never hear back.

March 2009 was my last job interview, bear in mind that was befdore I started volunteering, so obviously the volunteering part has gone wrong.

keep volunteering, looks better than nothing on your cv. What volunteering are you doing. Maybe look to volunteer in a different establishment, which is more appropriate to the jobs your applying for

 

[the sniper]

Do you have any sources for this? The information I have seen of JSA is that a claimant is expected to be activly seeking employment, no mention of being forced to do work of any sort, just look for it which I think is a reasonable enough requirement.

I can confirm that this is the case, as I am presently in this situation.

After 10 to 12 months of being on Job Seekers Allowance you reach what is known as 'Stage 4', at this point people between the ages of 18-24 are sent on the 'Community Task Force'. This is a compulsory thing that you have to take part in (from the document which I saw, it has only been compulsory since April this year), on it you have to undertake 25 hours compulsory work for at least 13 continuous weeks . In addition, you have to attend a 'job search' class for 5 hours every week. The job search also includes the CV enhancement stuff to OP has said about.

Now, in principle I'm fine with this and I'm happy to do voluntary work, as I have done in the past, but there are a number of things that have annoyed me, some of which I found rather dodgy. I'll address these below.

My first problem is the way in which they go about allocating a work placement to you. You're presented with a selection of undesirable positions, from sales positions in charity shops on dead high streets, to park cleaners and leisure centre roles. Non of these sounded particularly enticing to me, but the chap briefly mentioned that you could find your own placement, the only rule being that it had to be with a not-for-profit organisation. This sounded good to me as I want to work on the railway, so I had an eye on trying to get something on the Severn Valley Railway or even trying my luck with Network Rail (obviously only in an office or customer service, but it is worth a try); unfortunately though this was made nearly impossible as only a moment later he said that you had to have a position ready within 5 days, which isn't really much time to work with. The past two work experience placement I've done (one at school, one at college) on the national railway took weeks to arrange. I've currently got two days left to find a placement, the telephone and email hasn't got me anywhere with Network Rail yet, but I'm going to in person to New Street tomorrow to see if anyone there can help, I'm also pondering whether I should try my luck at New Street PSB, but I'll see how brave I am.

If I fail to find my own placement, I'll be issued with one of the rather undesirable ones, and this brings me to my next issue, one which my parents find rather questionable. If I want to keep my JSA, my only income, I have to except a placement. While I'm on this program I get my £51.85 JSA and an additional £15.38 'training allowance' per week. Thus, I could and probably will end up working a compulsory 25 hour week, for 13 weeks, picking up litter, or working in a charity shop or leisure centre, for £2.69 per hour, which is less then half of the minimum wage... surely that's a bit off? That figure doesn't include the 5 hours of compulsory attendance of the 'job search' classes, which would bring the hourly figure down to £2.41 per hour.

Now my final issue, the 'job search' classes; what the heck do they think I've been doing every day for the last year! I've undertaken these 'job search' sessions on a previous JSA imposed program. On this all you did was turn up, get no help whatsoever, do the same searches you do at home, then leave. Now, on the previous program I was on this wasn't so bad as the program was based in the centre of Birmingham city centre, so was easy to get to. On this this program, this isn't the case.
On this program I have to make my to a "college" which is about 20/25 minutes away (on foot) from the city centre, the location is down a small side street in a rather notoriously bad part of Birmingham. Now, I'm not precious, I don't live in a great area myself, but even I'm nervous about strolling through the area where this sorry excuse for a college is. I just can't fathom why they've chosen this place, as people have to come from all over the city to get to this place in the middle of nowhere. It's not like our city centre is lacking empty premises, premises which would be a damn site lot easier and safer to get to!

So those are a couple of things which are rather depressing me at the moment. If you have been, thanks for reading, you deserve a medal.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

My cv has been checked, I send them off for jobs and specs when theres no jobs, then I never hear back.

March 2009 was my last job interview, bear in mind that was befdore I started volunteering, so obviously the volunteering part has gone wrong.

No. Its not an obvious consequence at all.

Two things that co-exist are NEVER evidence of a Causal relation between them.
After all, there are bigger factors at work here, aren't there? The virtual collapse of the Western financial model for a start - you can't imagine your few month's of personal experience is more significant than that!

I've followed this thread with interest - I've employed many people over the years and disregarded many CVs for one reason or another. Volunteering would NEVER be a reason for disregarding and CV but being unable to spell it would be.
But there's lots of other factors - the attitude of the candidate is crucial. Someone with poor qualifications and experience but a positive attitude and ability to learn and to cooperate stands a better chance that a graduate with no experience and a self-centred attitude.

Its obvious from your posts that you do not value work, learning and cooperative working highly. That's entirely your choice and I'm not criticising you for your attitude to your environment, but it doesn't get you on a short-list for employment.
Your CV isn't the point.
The statement "these courses dont work, they are rubbish" and something about 'sitting around reading newspapers' said everything.
You seem to be focussed on yourself and not on whatever the voluntary organisation is trying to do. Surely the aims of the voluntary organisation should be important to you (doesn't matter if its to promote a minority sport, to help an endangers species, to preserve a heritage site, assist victims of injury, develop a garden, provide evidence for political change etc. Its the dedication, committment and achievement that matter. If you do something you beleive in, then you get all the positive attitude you'll ever need back from it (which is possibly why many employed people also do voluntary work - their paid job doesn't give them that satisfaction). The interesting and supportive people you meet on the way are all a bonus.)

As CarterUSM said - a positive attitude provides positive results - this advice has been given for thousands of years and hasn't suddenly faltered here in the UK in 2010, despite the collapse of the markets.

Anyway, there's plenty work waiting to be done and no-one to do it. In the trades, there's plumbing and plastering. In the professions there's bookkeeping, business planning and insolvency practitioners. In the humanities and arts, there's translation, sign-language interpretation and bereavement counselling. There's probably a lot more sectors I don't know about with an under-supply of applicants.
Have you researched where the shortages are? Have you started studying the skills required? Have you looked at moving to the parts of the country which are easiest for start-ups?
Self-taught skils can get you a long way with a bit of professional help when you need it.

 

[ainsworth74]

So those are a couple of things which are rather depressing me at the moment. If you have been, thanks for reading, you deserve a medal.

Thank you for posting that, it was interesting and I agree there are certainly some areas that are concerning with the way the system is presently set up. I wish you good fortune with your placement finding!

Also where is my medal

 

[Railsigns]

i will say this forum has probably the best levels of grammar of any forum i use,

I am genuinely alarmed by that statement.

 

[richw]

I am genuinely alarmed by that statement.

One car forum i view, for information but haven't registered on, i have found some posts illegible they are that bad, and other posts are in text speak, which i've never understood. My partner is constantly laughing when i dont understand half the text messages i get and i need to get her to "translate" them for me

here is an example from a thread on the remaining un-named forum, there's about 6 or 7 posts in the same thread with one word answers, such as "yeah", "na", "lol", you see where its coming from!

Any body no of any one selling a toyota celica gt 190BHP the new ones.?

It's a 1993/4 import. Just spoken to him again, it's actually the 173bhp one, but yeah. Cheapy cheapy if you want it.

didnt he get compo 4 fallin down steps wen he went to spoons 2 drink n drive

 

[CarterUSM]

Robert2000, i do not envy your current predicament that is for sure, but i urge you to take on board some of the good info that has been posted. If you don't like your current voluntary role, that is okay, but at least look as if you enjoy it, as you may need to get a reference from them. Is there something voluntary wise that you would enjoy? I volunteered years ago for an organisation called the Winged Fellowship, though they are called by some other name now. It was like a weeks holiday, though there was certainly some grafting involved every day. But the social scene of it was excellent, everyone had a great time, and there were opportunities within for paid employment too, if you had the required aptitude. Best of British with it regardless !!!