GRALISTAIR
Established Member
I am -------- against massive subsidies to most of the menu at McDonald's, as the current government are offering...
Hear, hear.
I am -------- against massive subsidies to most of the menu at McDonald's, as the current government are offering...
I lived someone who was on a very low fat diet because of gallstones I think.
All low or zero fat meals and food in the house - no problem, but the line was drawn against skimmed milk. urrgh.. So I bought my own semi skimmed milk.
Never had much of an issue with UHT myself; once it's in tea or on cereal it's barely any different. When I drink it I sometimes prefer it slightly!My parents have bought UHT skimmed milk (yeurgh x2) ever since Chernobyl (due to the issue of irradiated cattle), and I have refused to drink it pretty much ever since, insisting on my own bottle of non-UHT semi.
Never had much of an issue with UHT myself; once it's in tea or on cereal it's barely any different. When I drink it I sometimes prefer it slightly!
That said, there's no reason not to buy it if you don't mind the taste, as it often works out slightly cheaper and because it's not refrigerated it's in theory less environmentally damaging.Yeurgh. There's pretty much no reason to buy it now (unless you don't have refrigeration, for that reason I sometimes put up with it when camping) as the pure-filtered type stuff (Arla PurFiltre was first, but the supermarkets all do their own now) keeps for a good two weeks unopened and far longer than unfiltered milk normally, and tastes nicer (a bit "cleaner") to me too.
That said, there's no reason not to buy it if you don't mind the taste, as it often works out slightly cheaper and because it's not refrigerated it's in theory less environmentally damaging.
The fact that obesity is largely a poverty related issue is still being ignored is mind boggling.
But to deny poverty has no impact on obesity is just wrong. And is probably a hangover from people thinking poverty has to mean not being able to afford food at all (which is still the case for some in this country too don't forget, but isn't at all the end of the problem).
Or do you think that the millions of people who routinely eat in McDonalds or who buy calorie-laden takeaways that are often full of hidden fat and sugar are mostly only buying these expensive takeaways because they can't afford to buy the bread or the fruit at their local shops?
These days the pricing of takeaway pizzas is somewhat random, with small pizzas sometimes being more expensive than medium ones, discounts if you buy specific types in combination, and just random deals that they decide to put on. Very different to any other takeaway.You can feed a family for a few days on fresh food for the cost of a large Domino's pizza, side and drink, let alone a family's worth.
These days the pricing of takeaway pizzas is somewhat random, with small pizzas sometimes being more expensive than medium ones, discounts if you buy specific types in combination, and just random deals that they decide to put on. Very different to any other takeaway
I find the implication that ready meals = unhealthy rather curious.
I have a ready meal dinner once or twice a week, and not one of them is more than about 600 calories / 20g of fat. Add in a salad on the side while it’s in the microwave / oven, if really time pressed half a bag of mixed leaves (60p), and that’s a decent healthy and filling meal. No more expensive than any ready meal. And the whole lot is no more expensive than unhealthy ready meals. It comes down to choice, and of course knowing what the choices are.
And one advantage of them is, I suppose, that they mandate portion control (unless you get a meal for two and eat it yourself I suppose).
They are however usually fairly expensive compared with making the same thing for a family from scratch (if you live alone, make for a family anyway and freeze portions; actually cooking for one really is expensive as it tends to cause a lot of waste).
While not expensive, they're still more expensive than cooking from scratch. As an example, I made chilli the other day in the slow cooker - easily enough for five or six meals with £2.80 of stewing beef, two cans of chopped tomatoes for 30p each, a tin of beans for 30p, a couple of onions, carrots and some celery for £1. Plus a bag of rice for 89p and spices that I already had in the cupboard.Not necessarily - I often buy Iceland ready meals, about £1.50 each, and often on offer for a quid. I expect Aldi / Lidl to do similar.
It's not being ignored, it's being outright denied by people who wish to load the responsibility for a severe food market failure onto the people who are its greatest victims. I don't pretend to be able to understand their motivations. I will make the informed guess that they are people who are not living in poverty though.The fact that obesity is largely a poverty related issue is still being ignored is mind boggling
A Dominos delivery seems extraordinarily expensive to me. Presumably though they're betting on almost everyone making big orders and getting around 40 - 50% off list prices using vouchers. Not that it's a remotely cost effective or healthy way to eat, obviously.You can feed a family for a few days on fresh food for the cost of a large Domino's pizza, side and drink, let alone a family's worth.
It's neither being ignored, nor denied. It's just that the argument: "People consume more calories than they need to because they don't have enough money to eat fewer" is illogical.It's not being ignored, it's being outright denied by people who wish to load the responsibility for a severe food market failure onto the people who are its greatest victims. I don't pretend to be able to understand their motivations.
It's neither being ignored, nor denied. It's just that the argument: "People consume more calories than they need to because they don't have enough money to eat fewer" is illogical.
Is poverty a factor in the obesity crisis? Yes, undoubtedly. Does poverty cause obesity? No, it does not.
Or do you think that the millions of people who routinely eat in McDonalds or who buy calorie-laden takeaways that are often full of hidden fat and sugar are mostly only buying these expensive takeaways because they can't afford to buy the bread or the fruit at their local shops?
True. If you can afford to buy takeaways (unless you're talking a simple small bag of chips which is still relatively cheap - but as soon as you add even sausage or pie to it the price goes up rather) you absolutely can afford to buy fresh meat, fruit and vegetables as they are cheaper than takeaways - a LOT cheaper. Anyone saying that isn't the case is simply making excuses.
It's neither being ignored, nor denied. It's just that the argument: "People consume more calories than they need to because they don't have enough money to eat fewer" is illogical.
Is poverty a factor in the obesity crisis? Yes, undoubtedly. Does poverty cause obesity? No, it does not.
Hence why pretty much everyone agrees that obesity and poverty are related - the factors that lead to relative poverty are also likely to lead to sub-optimal diet and lifestyle choices. But, and this is the point that needs to be recognised, they are choices.But not all of the issues linked with poverty are directly due to lack of money.
Specifically with takeaways, you have the time and energy factors. If you work long / unsociable hours, or have a job that is physically demanding (which are all much more common for those less well off), then when your options are spend another hour or two cooking or order a takeaway / chuck a ready meal in the microwave, it surely is obvious why the less healthy option is often chosen?
And then you also have the other bit I mentioned, about treats and leisure. Regardless of what you may think of poor people spending money on takeaways, alcohol, smoking etc, you must realise everybody needs something to look forward to for their own damn sanity. Yeah sure, if you don't have much money spending a fair whack on those things may not be sensible. But it really is necessary for someone not to go crazy. The same reasoning why it still makes sense for the less well off to spend money on TV's and the like - sure it may not be the "best" use of the money financially speaking, but you really can't be surprised at it.
Hence why there isn't a 1:1 relationship between poverty and obesity.Specifically with takeaways, you have the time and energy factors. If you work long / unsociable hours, or have a job that is physically demanding (which are all much more common for those less well off), then when your options are spend another hour or two cooking or order a takeaway / chuck a ready meal in the microwave, it surely is obvious why the less healthy option is often chosen?
The concept of obesity = calories in > calories out is not that simple. This is based upon the long-standing notion of the amount of calories consumed is more important than the type of food
Not all calories are created equally and people have hormone imbalances and different metabolisms
then when your options are spend another hour or two cooking or order a takeaway / chuck a ready meal in the microwave, it surely is obvious why the less healthy option is often chosen?
Exactly. It is *impossible* to put on fat weight if you burn more calories than you consume. And that's not being judgemental, it's the First Law of Thermodynamics.But the fact remains that if you eat more calories than you burn you will put on weight, and if you eat fewer you will lose it.
Exactly. It is *impossible* to put on fat weight if you burn more calories than you consume. And that's not being judgemental, it's the First Law of Thermodynamics.
Exactly. It is *impossible* to put on fat weight if you burn more calories than you consume. And that's not being judgemental, it's the First Law of Thermodynamics.
The judgemental bit is the "I can do it, therefore so should everybody else" way of looking at it.
Nobody is saying that it's easy: as @WelshBluebird said, it isn't easy to come home after a long day or night of work and face an hour cooking something fresh. But that isn't the same as saying that it's impossible. There are nearly always options.The judgemental bit is the "I can do it, therefore so should everybody else" way of looking at it.
For example, @Bletchleyite has pointed out that, if you have access to a freezer, you can cook in bulk and store in portions. Equally, a slow cooker is a comparatively easy (and cheap) way to have a warm meal waiting for you when you get home.