Which NSE rolling stock never got the NSE livery?

[antharro]

As per the title, really. Was there any rolling stock that never got the NSE livery but worked as regular NSE stock?

 

[DB]

Some of the Class 50s? Some were in large logo until withdrawal.

 

[Richard Scott]

Numerous EPB units, if I remember correctly quite a few never received NSE livery.

 

[Journeyman]

Numerous EPB units, if I remember correctly quite a few never received NSE livery.

It was NSE policy not to repaint any unrefurbished EPBs into NSE livery, as they were deemed to be of too poor quality to justify it.

 

[bramling]

As per the title, really. Was there any rolling stock that never got the NSE livery but worked as regular NSE stock?

Class 322, though one could say they weren’t regular stock, being dedicated to the airport run at the time.

 

[Helvellyn]

I think pretty much all DMU/EMU classes had at least some vehicles gain NSE livery. The closest to not would be the original Class 432 4-REPs with the buffet cars and trailer brake firsts - when reformed and repainted they had ex 4-TC trailers, which technically should have seen then reclassified as Class 431.

Possibly the 3-car Class 305/4 units didn't either, although those augmented with ex-Class 302 TSOLs (and renumbered 35052x) did I believe.

Then there are the heritage units - the sole Class 306 and the 4-SUB - that didn't either.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

As mentioned above class 322s never received the livery.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I know that Gatwick Express was an Intercity service initially*, but did it stay that way right up to privatisation or was it moved to NSE at some point?

* Or rather it became Intercity once it got the 73s and mk2s. The modified VEPs were pre-sectorisation though weren't they?

 

[AM9]

Didn't a couple of the 'jaffa cake' L&SE liveried 309s survive until scrapping or deployment in the north-west?

 

[JonathanH]

Didn't a couple of the 'jaffa cake' L&SE liveried 309s survive until scrapping or deployment in the north-west?

Not in the 'jaffa cake' livery. In particular, the 309s and 421 in that livery didn't retain it for very long before being repainted in NSE livery. It survived on the 411 fleet for longer but even there they all gained NSE livery.

 

[Hadders]

I know that Gatwick Express was an Intercity service initially*, but did it stay that way right up to privatisation or was it moved to NSE at some point?

* Or rather it became Intercity once it got the 73s and mk2s. The modified VEPs were pre-sectorisation though weren't they?

Always inter city.

 

[yorksrob]

I think pretty much all DMU/EMU classes had at least some vehicles gain NSE livery. The closest to not would be the original Class 432 4-REPs with the buffet cars and trailer brake firsts - when reformed and repainted they had ex 4-TC trailers, which technically should have seen then reclassified as Class 431.

Possibly the 3-car Class 305/4 units didn't either, although those augmented with ex-Class 302 TSOLs (and renumbered 35052x) did I believe.

Then there are the heritage units - the sole Class 306 and the 4-SUB - that didn't either.

There was the TC driving trailer that got reformed into a VEP after a level crossing crash near Yalding, so that's at least one vehicle that received NSE toothpaste.

Not in the 'jaffa cake' livery. In particular, the 309s and 421 in that livery didn't retain it for very long before being repainted in NSE livery. It survived on the 411 fleet for longer but even there they all gained NSE livery.

There were a couple of MLV's knocking around in Jaffa Cake until the end (one at Warcop's still in it).

 

[JonathanH]

There was the TC driving trailer that got reformed into a VEP after a level crossing crash near Yalding, so that's at least one vehicle that received NSE toothpaste.

Equally, I think the short lived 6-REP units (which also contained TC vehicles and I think from which 76275 was sourced) got NSE livery.

https://www.bloodandcustard.com/BR-3TC-4TC-4REP-Bournemouth-1966.html suggests that many TC units did get NSE livery although the 4-REPs didn't. 4-TCs continued longer than the REP fleet as they lasted longer and had a wider sphere of operation

 

[yorksrob]

Equally, I think the short lived 6-REP units (which also contained TC vehicles and I think from which 76275 was sourced) got NSE livery.

https://www.bloodandcustard.com/BR-3TC-4TC-4REP-Bournemouth-1966.html suggests that many TC units did get NSE livery although the 4-REPs didn't. 4-TCs continued longer than the REP fleet as they lasted longer and had a wider sphere of operation

Thanks - I didn't realise the 6REP's had it.

 

[4REP]

Thanks - I didn't realise the 6REP's had it.

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6 car NSE Rep with a class 421 or 423 poss behind as could be used because 6reps only had 1 motor coach

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1901/1902 at Basingstoke/Poole/Battersea

 

[northernbelle]

Class 56s?

I'm sure there were some of these allocated to NSE's infrastructure pool but were painted into 'Dutch' livery instead.

 

[yorksrob]

One of the Hastings thumpers remained in service into NSE days, but it carried Southern green livery with yellow ends while in passenger use. (Ironically, it was painted into NSE after conversion to a de-icing unit !)

 

[Deepgreen]

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6 car NSE Rep with a class 421 or 423 poss behind as could be used because 6reps only had 1 motor coach

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1901/1902 at Basingstoke/Poole/Battersea

Indeed, and as a piece of trivia, the 6REPs were the only units to have two non-driving guard's vans (as the single 8VAB, decades earlier, had three!).

 

[Bringback309s]

The 309's that began refurbishment programs in their L&SE days prior to sectorisation, were fitted with "donkey stripe" moquette as part of the refurb combined with jaffa cake livery. However, when the refurbishment continued under NSE, blue blaze moquette was not adopted and the donkey stripe continued. Did any other classes also never see blue blaze interiors? The 305/1's received the inner suburban green donkey stripe for a while but I don't think ever got blue blaze NSE covers.

 

[JonathanH]

Did any other classes also never see blue blaze interiors?

Mark 1 carriages used on Euston to Northampton trains that were latterly operated out of Paddington.

EPBs only ever received the inner suburban green donkey stripe.

Some stock never got Blue Blaze or a Donkey Stripe variant of course - I think the 119s were in that category.

 

[gg1]

Was 306 017 operated by NSE?

If so that would, qualify being in BR green with the rest of the class withdrawn before sectorisation.

 

[yorksrob]

Mark 1 carriages used on Euston to Northampton trains that were latterly operated out of Paddington.

EPBs only ever received the inner suburban green donkey stripe.

Some stock never got Blue Blaze or a Donkey Stripe variant of course - I think the 119s were in that category.

I'm sure I saw an EPB at Strood once with blue blaze - It's memorable because it's the only time I saw one with it. It wasn't a HAP because it had top-lights (top-light HAP's went around a decade earlier).

 

[JonathanH]

I'm sure I saw an EPB at Strood once with blue blaze - It's memorable because it's the only time I saw one with it. It wasn't a HAP because it had top-lights (top-light HAP's went around a decade earlier).

I guess that is quite possible - the non gangwayed feature of the EPBs was i guess prone to vandalism and it was quite a large fleet.

What did the 63xx 2-EPBs have as they had quite a different working role in the NSE period relative to the 54xx 4-EPBs that made their way to Kent services earlier.

 

[fgwrich]

Always inter city.

And in effect remained an Intercity type franchise until it's unfortunate demise / merger with Southern then TSGN. It was one franchise NX were quite proud of.

 

[4REP]

The 309's that began refurbishment programs in their L&SE days prior to sectorisation, were fitted with "donkey stripe" moquette as part of the refurb combined with jaffa cake livery. However, when the refurbishment continued under NSE, blue blaze moquette was not adopted and the donkey stripe continued. Did any other classes also never see blue blaze interiors? The 305/1's received the inner suburban green donkey stripe for a while but I don't think ever got blue blaze NSE covers.

The DC units classes 421-423 received blue blazed on refurbs definitely. Also the Beps/Ceps did.
The Reps and TC units certainly never did

 

[yorksrob]

I guess that is quite possible - the non gangwayed feature of the EPBs was i guess prone to vandalism and it was quite a large fleet.

I was only walking down the platform alongside it, so I might be mis-remembering. But they could have ran out donkey-stripe perhaps !

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The DC units classes 421-423 received blue blazed on refurbs definitely. Also the Beps/Ceps did

Some of them must have had it for around twenty years !

 

[4REP]

I was only walking down the platform alongside it, so I might be mis-remembering. But they could have ran out donkey-stripe perhaps !

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Some of them must have had it for around twenty years !

Yes definitely. Some units on SWT Changed to red moquette

 

[yorksrob]

Yes definitely. Some units on SWT Changed to red moquette

Yes, they looked after theirs a bit more.

 

[Swanny200]

Were some of the Kent Link EMU's of the early to mid 90's until the networkers not EPB's if so I'm sure there were a couple in NSE livery for the Gillingham to Cannon Street/CX services until the networkers took over, I remember sitting in the compartment carriages a few times between Gillingham and Rochester/Gravesend 92/93 time, didn't some end up at Ramsgate as de-icers?

 

[Bikeman78]

I guess that is quite possible - the non gangwayed feature of the EPBs was i guess prone to vandalism and it was quite a large fleet.

What did the 63xx 2-EPBs have as they had quite a different working role in the NSE period relative to the 54xx 4-EPBs that made their way to Kent services earlier.

This video shows the interior of a 63XX 2EPB a few weeks before they all finished. It clearly hasn't got NSE seat moquette. There might have been the odd blue blaze one but I only remember this pattern.