LNER Considering Requiring Passengers to Check-in Before Travel

[choochootrain]

Agreed - LNER seem much better organised that, say, Avanti.



This is silly.




It is clear many posters here simply do not " get it". Passengers want confidence that they will be as safe as possible travelling. LNER seem to be doing this well. Pretending that we aren't in the middle of an unprecedented situation that requires unusual solutions is not sensible imo.

Why is it silly? LNER need to make up their mind, do they want short distance passengers or not? If not, you don't need two trains an hour from London to Leeds or Edinburgh.

 

[DarloRich]

Why is it silly? LNER need to make up their mind, do they want short distance passengers or not? If not, you don't need two trains an hour from London to Leeds or Edinburgh.

At present they want to focus on long distance passengers. That seems the best use of their limited capacity. I simply don't think you "get" the current situation and want to pretend life is like is was pre March. It isn't. We all wish it was but it isn't. The railways have to win back trust and ideas like the one discussed here are attempts to win back that trust. The rules we all live under right now don't allow for the approach you would like.

 

[northken]

If you checked in would you be immune from railcard checks?

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you checked in would you be immune from railcard checks?

Well, DB have you enter your Bahncard number, I guess this could work the same, though I don't know if there's a database of them to stop people entering the numeric equivalent of Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck.

 

[DarloRich]

This also means one fewer interaction between Pax and Conductor on the board the train, which is an advantage in C-19 terms. If it was renamed 'Self-Ticket Checking', would that help everyone here?

This seems a sensible idea.

 

[Robertj21a]

Just another layer of potential confusion and perception of even more hassle. Fine in theory, rubbish in practice, it just reminds passengers why they prefer to use the car.

 

[choochootrain]

Just another layer of potential confusion and perception of even more hassle. Fine in theory, rubbish in practice, it just reminds passengers why they prefer to use the car.

This, I work as a locum and especially now, can get called away at a moments notice halfway across the country. I can't book days in advance, hence why I'm driving this weekend to Newcastle.

 

[DorkingMain]

I can see both sides of this argument.

I don't think people here are overreacting by feeling this is another complication that might be eventually forced on everyone. There is a definite habit of "trialling" things and then eventually trying to force them on everyone.

Added complications, worries and stresses are not a benefit to passengers or staff. For passengers it makes the whole experience more complicated and offputting. People value rail travel over flying because it's easier - you get on and sit there and go. Adding more dimensions to that makes it less appealing. It also raises the question what happens if you have a special kind of ticket or pass etc if this becomes mandatory. The inevitable answer from the TOC will be "call us, email us or go to a ticket office". Again, added complication.

For staff it adds yet another dimension to "things to worry about" - what if you're checking tickets and you accidentally check someone who's checked in on the app, resulting in them taking great offence you've tried to put your potentially COVID-infected breath on them? What if people start coming up with complicated ways to trick the system and avoid paying?

On the flip side I can definitely see it makes people feel safer if they can avoid interaction, and for those who are tech-savvy it probably is favourable to check in on an app and not have to worry about your ticket being checked, or being woken up / interrupted for that purpose.

To give an abridged summary: I think this is a nice idea, provided it is an option, rather than the thin end of the wedge.

 

[Ianno87]

Just another layer of potential confusion and perception of even more hassle. Fine in theory, rubbish in practice, it just reminds passengers why they prefer to use the car.

*Or*...

Actually quite a lot of passengers don't really understand Orange Credit Card size tickets and the various reservation coupons that come with them*, and would actually prefer an App that clearly states train, time seat, and will repond to notifications on their phone. Different tools are required for different needs

*See the folk who will gladly give a Train Manager every single coupon outputted by their booking - outward and return - for them to sort through. Exactly which coupon is which is really not "obvious" to exactly the sort of discretionary passengers the railway needs to attract.

 

[Bletchleyite]

*See the folk who will gladly give a Train Manager every single coupon outputted by their booking - outward and return - for them to sort through. Exactly which coupon is which is really not "obvious" to exactly the sort of discretionary passengers the railway needs to attract.

True. I might not like it myself, but "airline style" is by far the simplest way for the IC railway to operate. Nobody finds booking an easyJet flight complicated - it is genuinely easy. You book it on their website, you put in where from and to, you pick which flight, are told how much it is, you pay and then you print your boarding card or have it on your phone. Then you rock up when it says and sit in your allocated seat at the specified time with no arguments about validity.

Enthusiasts don't like it, but almost everyone else does.

 

[DarloRich]

*Or*...

Actually quite a lot of passengers don't really understand Orange Credit Card size tickets and the various reservation coupons that come with them*, and would actually prefer an App that clearly states train, time seat, and will repond to notifications on their phone. Different tools are required for different needs

*See the folk who will gladly give a Train Manager every single coupon outputted by their booking - outward and return - for them to sort through. Exactly which coupon is which is really not "obvious" to exactly the sort of discretionary passengers the railway needs to attract.

Agreed - many here cant/wont see the world as normal passengers see it

Enthusiasts don't like it, but almost everyone else does.

Never a truer word spoken.

 

[choochootrain]

True. I might not like it myself, but "airline style" is by far the simplest way for the IC railway to operate. Nobody finds booking an easyJet flight complicated - it is genuinely easy. You book it on their website, you put in where from and to, you pick which flight, are told how much it is, you pay and then you print your boarding card or have it on your phone. Then you rock up when it says and sit in your allocated seat at the specified time with no arguments about validity.

Enthusiasts don't like it, but almost everyone else does.

Agreed - many here cant/wont see the world as normal passengers see it



Never a truer word spoken.

I'm not an enthusiast, and I don't like it...

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not an enthusiast, and I don't like it...

I guess you're staff? As otherwise I can't see why you'd be posting on here

 

[choochootrain]

I guess you're staff? As otherwise I can't see why you'd be posting on here

No, as I posted earlier I'm a locum and can be called away at a moments notice almost anywhere in the country. I hate driving but these moves by LNER and Crosscountry of having to book services possibly days in advance make it very difficult for me to rely on the train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No, as I posted earlier I'm a locum and can be called away at a moments notice almost anywhere in the country. I hate driving but these moves by LNER and Crosscountry of having to book services possibly days in advance make it very difficult for me to rely on the train.

OK, COVID is a bit of a constraint, in which case maybe you're better off in the car. But long term I can't recall the last time I had to stand on an InterCity service (though admittedly I mostly avoid XC), this being the case I would be able to reserve a seat on the next train once I had realised I needed to travel.

The only time you got full and standing trains on the WCML in recent years was Friday evenings out of Euston, and that was caused by artificial peak restrictions, which have been removed and in doing so completely solved the problem.

 

[choochootrain]

OK, COVID is a bit of a constraint, in which case maybe you're better off in the car. But long term I can't recall the last time I had to stand on an InterCity service (though admittedly I mostly avoid XC), this being the case I would be able to reserve a seat on the next train once I had realised I needed to travel.

The only time you got full and standing trains on the WCML in recent years was Friday evenings out of Euston, and that was caused by artificial peak restrictions, which have been removed and in doing so completely solved the problem.

It's LNER's loss, I often have to travel peak time paying full whack for my tickets, I assumed that I'm exactly the sort of passenger they don't want to lose...

 

[Ianno87]

No, as I posted earlier I'm a locum and can be called away at a moments notice almost anywhere in the country. I hate driving but these moves by LNER and Crosscountry of having to book services possibly days in advance make it very difficult for me to rely on the train.

"Days"? Can be up to 5 minutes before.

What would help would be booking engines that are creative in 'joining up' available spaces for very last minute travel.

Or offering a limited number of "I don't mind standing if I have to" places.

E.g. say two London-Edinburgh services, one full London-York and the other full York-Edinburgh. Then it could figure out you could travel London-York on one train then change to travel York-Edinburgh on the next.

 

[800001]

No, as I posted earlier I'm a locum and can be called away at a moments notice almost anywhere in the country. I hate driving but these moves by LNER and Crosscountry of having to book services possibly days in advance make it very difficult for me to rely on the train.

.
But as several people have said you don't have to book several days in advance, you can reserve at a station ticket office, on your phone or even ask platform staff up to 5 minutes before departure, it really is a very easy process to do, and adds no more than a minute or 2 onto what you would of done previously.

It's LNER's loss, I often have to travel peak time paying full whack for my tickets, I assumed that I'm exactly the sort of passenger they don't want to lose...

So reserve a seat! Do it weeks in advance or up to 5 min before, you can make and cancel reservations your self on your phone.

 

[Robertj21a]

Agreed - many here cant/wont see the world as normal passengers see it



Never a truer word spoken.

Wildly inaccurate I would suggest. I'm only an occasional train traveller and not what I'd call an enthusiast. As a very 'ordinary' traveller I think it just adds unnecessary confusion. I would have thought it was the train enthusiasts who would like things like this!

 

[JonathanH]

True. I might not like it myself, but "airline style" is by far the simplest way for the IC railway to operate. Nobody finds booking an easyJet flight complicated - it is genuinely easy. You book it on their website, you put in where from and to, you pick which flight, are told how much it is, you pay and then you print your boarding card or have it on your phone. Then you rock up when it says and sit in your allocated seat at the specified time with no arguments about validity.

Enthusiasts don't like it, but almost everyone else does.

HS2 will be the opportunity to implement this sort of operation, when we truly have a segregated section of railway which doesn't have a mixed traffic role. At the moment, apart from the long trunk sections from London, it doesn't really work. LNER obviously has these between London and York on Scottish services and Newcastle and Edinburgh when non-stop. What grates a bit more is having to sit in a certain seat when another part of the train has more space.

 

[DB]

*Or*...

Actually quite a lot of passengers don't really understand Orange Credit Card size tickets and the various reservation coupons that come with them*, and would actually prefer an App that clearly states train, time seat, and will repond to notifications on their phone. Different tools are required for different needs

*See the folk who will gladly give a Train Manager every single coupon outputted by their booking - outward and return - for them to sort through. Exactly which coupon is which is really not "obvious" to exactly the sort of discretionary passengers the railway needs to attract.

The fact that ticketing is a mess isn't a reason to move to something far less flexible.

There is absolutely no reason why the system has to produce multiple tickets - it would be quite possible to print all the required information on one ticket, if they could be bothered to sort it. And that wouldn't disadvantage anyone - unlike the proposal being discussed here, if that was made mandatory.

True. I might not like it myself, but "airline style" is by far the simplest way for the IC railway to operate. Nobody finds booking an easyJet flight complicated - it is genuinely easy. You book it on their website, you put in where from and to, you pick which flight, are told how much it is, you pay and then you print your boarding card or have it on your phone. Then you rock up when it says and sit in your allocated seat at the specified time with no arguments about validity.

Enthusiasts don't like it, but almost everyone else does.

Sorry, but you are a long way wide of the mark.

While people travelling longer distances might well like to book in advance (and note that this is already fairly straightforward using a phone app, if they want to do it this way, then they just need to show the ticket in the app to the guard - hardly onerous) the fact is that for short distances it's useless. e.g. I've at various times I've needed to travel from York to Doncaster a lot, without any notice, and not knowing how long I wuld be there - so I'd turn up at the station, tell the ticket machine that I want a return to Doncaster, and get on the first train which appears. Likewise coming back, minus buying the ticket. What could be simpler than that? Frankly, I don't want to fiddle around with an app or join the ticket office queue to have to book a seat.

This sort of thing might work if (as some other countries do) we had long-distace and stopping trais running the same routes - but the fact is that for most of the country we don't, and the long distance ones also serve local traffic.

If people want to reserve that's fine, but it should not be forced on everyone. The railways' big selling point is that they are turn up and go - and if that is taken away, or even made significantly more awkward, many people will just not bother. If the railways are serious about trying to attract people back, this is the last thing they should be doing!

 

[Ianno87]

The fact that ticketing is a mess isn't a reason to move to something far less flexible.

It's *more* flexible. Say you're in London for the day. Whack the App open, have a look in the afternoon and see that X/Y/Z departures have space. Select seat. Turn up 5 minutes before knowing there'll be an empty seat for you.

Or if you decide you want to stay a little longer for the pub. Open App again and move yourself to a later train.

 

[Robertj21a]

It's *more* flexible. Say you're in London for the day. Whack the App open, have a look in the afternoon and see that X/Y/Z departures have space. Select seat. Turn up 5 minutes before knowing there'll be an empty seat for you.

Or if you decide you want to stay a little longer for the pub. Open App again and move yourself to a later train.

Would your granny do the same ?

 

[Ianno87]

Would your granny do the same ?

Well my Mum (in her late 60s) confidently uses phone payments (much to my surprise and delight!).

An App would be *in addition* to conventional tickets and reservations. Let's face it, if you're of an age these days to not be confident using Apps you *are* going to be making long distance journeys booked at least a day or two in advance via conventional means, with seat reservations.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

DB offers this as a service. If you do it, the idea is that the guard doesn't disturb you during the journey for a ticket check.

Well I know that whenever I make a 3-4 hour train journey, the 20-30 seconds of reaching into my pocket for my ticket and showing it to the guard ruins the entire experience...[/sarcasm]

Seriously, I think this is a good idea in theory, as long as it isn't used to hide fare increases or other unhelpful changes... but unless you're on a sleeper, a guard checking your ticket shouldn't be a "disturbance". If it is, maybe stick to the Jag.

 

[Bantamzen]

I actually quite like the idea of a self-check in, and honestly I would like to see more reservation only services or at least portions on IC services such as are done on Shinkansen. So long as passengers can buy walk-on tickets right up until a few minutes before departure, I see no real issues with either reservation only or self check-ins.

Where the line has to be drawn is using such system is to continue the desire of decision makers to enforce social distancing. Because put simply, we cannot have trains being subsidised by the tax payers for carting fresh air around when those trains could be turning a profit. Subsidies should be for vital services that might not be able to turn profits, not for long distance services that could and should be offering a range of ticket options & services in a similar manner to airlines.

 

[DB]

It's *more* flexible. Say you're in London for the day. Whack the App open, have a look in the afternoon and see that X/Y/Z departures have space. Select seat. Turn up 5 minutes before knowing there'll be an empty seat for you.

Or if you decide you want to stay a little longer for the pub. Open App again and move yourself to a later train.

It's only more flexible if it's *optinoal*. If I'm doing a 20 minute journey I simply can't be bothered with this sort of hassle - I just want to turn up at the station, get a ticket from the machine, and get on the train. And if I have to stand in the vestibule for 20 minutes, so what?

 

[Richard Bishop]

So is there a website other than LNER that you you can just do seat reservations on if you are already in possession oF a valid ticket ie all line rover/long distance season?

 

[Bletchleyite]

So is there a website other than LNER that you you can just do seat reservations on if you are already in possession oF a valid ticket ie all line rover/long distance season?

Not as things stand but I expect it would be more widely available were this rolled out permanently.

 

[DarloRich]

Would your granny do the same ?

no - but she would be about 150 now.

My mum ( who is of an age that shall not be spoken upon pain of death) is very happy using online and phone based apps. My partners mum who is of a greater age is an inveterate app user, particularly in relation to the Arriva bus tracker which affords her new and exciting ways to complain about the poor time keeping of the number 27.

So no, my granny wouldn't. My mum (who is a granny) would.

It's only more flexible if it's *optinoal*. If I'm doing a 20 minute journey I simply can't be bothered with this sort of hassle - I just want to turn up at the station, get a ticket from the machine, and get on the train. And if I have to stand in the vestibule for 20 minutes, so what?

I would suggest that, respectfully, LNER are looking at people like me making London to Leeds/Doncaster/York/ Newcastle journeys as their key customer at this precise time.

Where the line has to be drawn is using such system is to continue the desire of decision makers to enforce social distancing.

Why? We have to operate social distancing. Pretending otherwise wont help. We have to make the best of the situation and ideas like this, are to my mind, an attempt to do just that.

it is also worth noting that, despite all the wibble, this is simply an idea at this stage. It will be one of many the industry is trying to increase customer confidence that train travel in the current environment is as safe and secure as it can be in order to help passengers return to using the train. Surely that is a good thing?

PS the kind of social distancing on LNER is going to continue until the government change the rules. I know LNER want to change the rules but cant at this stage. The Government aren't going to change the rules with cases and hospital admissions rising. We have to make the best of it right now.