LNER Considering Requiring Passengers to Check-in Before Travel

[DB]

it is also worth noting that, despite all the wibble, this is simply an idea at this stage. It will be one of many the industry is trying to increase customer confidence that train travel in the current environment is as safe and secure as it can be in order to help passengers return to using the train. Surely that is a good thing?

I really can't see how this is supposed to increase 'customer confidence' - those who use it would probably have travelled anyway.

It's also clear that those citing this whole 'customer confidence' mantra are determined to ignore all those who are avoiding the railways because of masks and other over the top restrictions, and are only interested in those terrified of the Deadly Killer Virus- who in many cases will avoid trains for the time being whatever the TOCs try to offer.

 

[DarloRich]

I really can't see how this is supposed to increase 'customer confidence' - those who use it would probably have travelled anyway.

It's also clear that those citing this whole 'customer confidence' mantra are determined to ignore all those who are avoiding the railways because of masks and other over the top restrictions, and are only interested in those terrified of the Deadly Killer Virus- who in many cases will avoid trains for the time being whatever the TOCs try to offer.

That's your view. I suspect research shows otherwise.

PS have you any experience of using LNER post lockdown?

 

[Bantamzen]

Why? We have to operate social distancing. Pretending otherwise wont help. We have to make the best of the situation and ideas like this, are to my mind, an attempt to do just that.

it is also worth noting that, despite all the wibble, this is simply an idea at this stage. It will be one of many the industry is trying to increase customer confidence that train travel in the current environment is as safe and secure as it can be in order to help passengers return to using the train. Surely that is a good thing?

Social distancing where possible, and on public transport it may not be. Just as many airlines cannot afford to cart around fresh air, there is going to have to be a balance. Otherwise ticket costs will spiral, and will end up pricing out many and resulting in a long term down turn in passenger numbers. And we all know what that means.

I really can't see how this is supposed to increase 'customer confidence' - those who use it would probably have travelled anyway.

It's also clear that those citing this whole 'customer confidence' mantra are determined to ignore all those who are avoiding the railways because of masks and other over the top restrictions, and are only interested in those terrified of the Deadly Killer Virus- who in many cases will avoid trains for the time being whatever the TOCs try to offer.

Indeed, I'm not sure who exactly we are trying to reassure here. Because running what would normally be busy trains at a fraction of their capacity, where you might not even be able to travel on if "full" resulting in you potentially waiting around for hours does not inspire confidence. Throw in masks, the constant stream of mask demands, over zealous enforcement, and the increasingly erratic behaviour from some people and its anything but encouraging. I hate to be blunt here, but we can't be pandering to nervous travellers forever. Trains are a public mode of transport, not a therapy session.

 

[DB]

That's your view. I suspect research shows otherwise.

PS have you any experience of using LNER post lockdown?

I've not actually seen any reports of research into this - the whole railway policy, so far as it exists, seems to concentrate on trying to encourage the terrified. Just look at the attitude many railway staff have towards exempt people, as reported on here? If the railways want these people as passengers it's difficult to see why they would allow their staff to show such contempt.

No I haven't used LNER post-lockdown - normaly I do use them quite often, but fortunately there are other operators (Northern and TPE) who also cover the journeys I usually make on their trains, so I wil be using them if I need to - less hassle.

 

[Ianno87]

Social distancing where possible, and on public transport it may not be. Just as many airlines cannot afford to cart around fresh air, there is going to have to be a balance. Otherwise ticket costs will spiral, and will end up pricing out many and resulting in a long term down turn in passenger numbers. And we all know what that means.



Indeed, I'm not sure who exactly we are trying to reassure here. Because running what would normally be busy trains at a fraction of their capacity, where you might not even be able to travel on if "full" resulting in you potentially waiting around for hours does not inspire confidence. Throw in masks, the constant stream of mask demands, over zealous enforcement, and the increasingly erratic behaviour from some people and its anything but encouraging. I hate to be blunt here, but we can't be pandering to nervous travellers forever. Trains are a public mode of transport, not a therapy session.

I've made 6 long distance LNER journeys now, and have seen zero 'zealous' enforcement of either masks or alcohol rules, beyond a couple of long-winded PA announcements as reminders.

It's, if anything, been a much more pleasurable and relaxing travel experience with social distancing limiting the capacity of the trains.

 

[DarloRich]

I've made 6 long distance LNER journeys now, and have seen zero 'zealous' enforcement of either masks or alcohol rules, beyond a couple of long-winded PA announcements as reminders.

It's, if anything, been a much more pleasurable and relaxing travel experience with social distancing limiting the capacity of the trains.

I agree entirely. I have had no trouble whatsoever and have made perhaps 8 LNER journeys recently. lost track tbh. I honestly don't see what is hard about: Book ticket. Get seat. Wear mask. Board. Relax

LNER have been much better organised, imo, than almost every other TOC I have used recently ( Avanti, LNWR, Nothern, TPE, Scotrail)

The issue appears to be that some here don't like their freedom to gad about on trains on esoteric tickets impacted and cant or wont understand that they do not represent the reality of railway use for most . I bet most of the complainants haven't even used the trains they comment on!

I do agree that there is an impact on affordability ( both for the government and the user) but as I said until the government change the rules (which they wont right now) we are stuck with trying to make the best of the situation. passenger numbers are low and need to increase. I think that increase will only happen slowly as confidence increases in the general public that train travel and travel in general is as safe as it can be. It isn't, in my mind, practical to return to uncontrolled train use at this stage. Personally I think that would be counter productive and reduce confidence further as media stories suggested that train travel was overcrowded and a providing a fertile breeding ground for a deadly virus. I don't think that would be a good thing. It is clear many here disagree.

 

[DB]

The issue appears to be that some here don't like their freedom to gad about on trains on esoteric tickets impacted and cant or wont understand that they do not represent the reality of railway use for most .

No, if I travel it will be for work, on standard open tickets. I don't tend to know what specific times I will be travelling in many cases, and I don't need this sort of hassle. If I have to travel, I will be trying to use those operators who place the fewest obstacles in the way.

 

[adrock1976]

I will be making use of LNER next month for a trip to Whitley Bay.

Would I still be notified of a check in alert being as I have booked online using the GWR website? I wanted Croy - Tyne & Wear Metro All Zones Code H665, as the H665 is not accepted on the LNER website (despite being the main Intercity operator for the North East Region) and not for the first time either. Another example of one of many things how the country has ended up in the terrible state it is in nowadays.

 

[DarloRich]

No, if I travel it will be for work, on standard open tickets. I don't tend to know what specific times I will be travelling in many cases, and I don't need this sort of hassle. If I have to travel, I will be trying to use those operators who place the fewest obstacles in the way.

Most of my journeys have been for work. I admit I tend to know my "out" time but my "back" time is often unknown. I have not had a problem booking, standard class, on the train I wanted even at short notice. I will further admit it has been 10 days since my last trip so demand may have shot up but more trains are coming on stream which will surely offer more choice.

Honestly - I haven't had a problem and think mountains are being made out of molehills. Clearly I can only talk to my own experience and fully accept others may have had terrible times but i haven't. I expected problems but have not encountered them.

 

[Failed Unit]

The only issue that bothers me is a missed connection. Fortunately this hasn’t happened to me yet. But I can see some long waits if you miss your booked connection.

we may be the minority now. But not everyone can travel on a direct train.

 

[Ianno87]

The only issue that bothers me is a missed connection. Fortunately this hasn’t happened to me yet. But I can see some long waits if you miss your booked connection.

we may be the minority now. But not everyone can travel on a direct train.

Surely an App could Automatically cancel and re-book a seat reservation once live running information identifies that a connection has been missed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely an App could Automatically cancel and re-book a seat reservation once live running information identifies that a connection has been missed.

Rather than automatically rebook I'd suggest it should offer the passenger options - what the passenger wants is not necessarily what the app comes up with.

I'd go with the idea of marking the journey segment disrupted which would allow the passenger to rebook free of charge to their preferred connection, or in the case of a cancelled first train or one delayed to the point that the connection would be missed to allow them to tap a button to refund.

 

[Ianno87]

Rather than automatically rebook I'd suggest it should offer the passenger options - what the passenger wants is not necessarily what the app comes up with.

Next fastest train?
Next direct train?
An hour to go to the pub first?

Etc.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Next fastest train?
Next direct train?
An hour to go to the pub first?

Not options like that, I'd just go with the same planner UI the passenger used to book in the first place, but showing journeys from the point they got stuck rather than the whole thing, and with all options being free of charge (the railway can argue that one out itself).

 

[Failed Unit]

If it did replan according to real time once you were checked in I suspect it would be very welcome by the majority of passengers. For me “when can it start”

as long as you don’t get challenged if the new route breaks your tickets routing table. Ie if it offers you via London to get you home rather then whatever route you originally had. But for me the quickest next train to destination is what I would want.

 

[Dave91131]

Reading through this thread and the points of view for and against the "check in" idea, I feel it could be appreciated by and useful for some passengers on longer distance journeys, e.g EDB or NCL to KGX.

IMHO it would be totally unsuitable for shorter journeys, such as LDS-DON, PBO-KGX or DHM-NCL to name but a few. I think it would "over complicate" matters and would for sure make me consider alternative TOC's and / or modes of transport.

I appreciate not many journeys made on LNER will be turn up and go, especially at these times, but is "turn up, buy ticket, get on first train to destination" really such a bad and confidence damaging way of going about things?

 

[route101]

Ridiculous idea. While it might work where there are long-distance and local services running in parallel, it simply doesn't work in this country as all the long-distance services also serve as local services at various points on their route - e.g. the only services between York and Doncaster are LNER and XC, both long-distance operators. Similar applies in many other areas.

The main selling point of rail is that it's turn up and go. Take that away and it becomes a lot less useful to a lot of people.

Yes, i believe LNER may stick with the compulsary reservations though. I dont support it, i like the walk up nature of the railway.

 

[crablab]

If you make things too difficult or add too many steps, people will use the simpler equivalent: a car.

I have been using LNER extensively. It's probably worth noting that they sell a lot of advance tickets, so if you planning a trip then you'll get a reservation and everything will be fine.

However, sometimes advance fares aren't available/cheapest or, as has been mentioned, you're someone with a season ticket or have turned up at Morpeth and want to go to Edinburgh on an off peak day return.
Reservation becomes a faff for these passengers, who tend to be commuters. Who tend to buy season tickets. Who contribute 45% of the railway's income. Who just want to jump on the next available train.

London Underground and metro services don't operate on a reservation only principle, and trying to enforce that on long distance operators (like LNER) who **also** serve short distanced commuters, will not end well (in my view)

 

[Ianno87]

.
Reservation becomes a faff for these passengers, who tend to be commuters. Who tend to buy season tickets. Who contribute 45% of the railway's income. Who just want to jump on the next available train.

1) But not 45% of *LNER's* income.

2) 45% is highly likely to reduce post-Covid anyway

 

[DB]

Yes, i believe LNER may stick with the compulsary reservations though. I dont support it, i like the walk up nature of the railway.

That'll be up to the DfT - and if it does become permanent then MPs along the route are likely to be getting a lot of complaints!

 

[andy1571]

I used LNER to Leeds and back a couple of weeks back. I was surprised to find myself allocated a table seat across from another gentleman in an otherwise pretty empty carriage. As soon as we left KGX, he moved to another table.

On the way back, someone was sat in my reserved seat, and so not particularly wishing to start an argument, I sat elsewhere.

Not particularly scientific, but it suggests that all this effort on rigorously allocating seats in the name of social distancing seems to be being disregarded to some extent anyway.

 

[Techniquest]

At present they want to focus on long distance passengers. That seems the best use of their limited capacity. I simply don't think you "get" the current situation and want to pretend life is like is was pre March. It isn't. We all wish it was but it isn't. The railways have to win back trust and ideas like the one discussed here are attempts to win back that trust. The rules we all live under right now don't allow for the approach you would like.

I do not often agree with your views, I must confess, but on this LNER idea I liked it as soon as I read about it in the first post.

I am 100% in favour of launching this concept, just while the world health crisis continues. If it makes the experience of train travel better, then I will be quite happy to see it more commonly used across the country. Did I read correctly that this is an optional thing? You can still board and travel, just this idea would make for less disturbances? If it was mandatory, I could understand the frustrations I got bored of reading from others.

Open app, tell LNER I'm on the train, and I get to shove my earphones in and ignore the rest of the world. No need to wait for ages for the TM to possibly show up at an inconvenient moment for a ticket check, why is anyone against this optional process?!

I am on the wrong side of the UK to use LNER but I am hugely in favour!

 

[Ianno87]

I used LNER to Leeds and back a couple of weeks back. I was surprised to find myself allocated a table seat across from another gentleman in an otherwise pretty empty carriage. As soon as we left KGX, he moved to another table.

On the way back, someone was sat in my reserved seat, and so not particularly wishing to start an argument, I sat elsewhere.

Not particularly scientific, but it suggests that all this effort on rigorously allocating seats in the name of social distancing seems to be being disregarded to some extent anyway.

I have observed a few folk making short journeys who I suspected hadn't made reservations.

The one instance someone had to move, it was all good natured. I suspect those without reservations won't want to kick up too much of a fusd to draw attention to themselves. And passengers have been grown ups and not snitching on each other.

It's almost like it's made folks much less 'territorial' when it comes to seats.

 

[cactustwirly]

OK, COVID is a bit of a constraint, in which case maybe you're better off in the car. But long term I can't recall the last time I had to stand on an InterCity service (though admittedly I mostly avoid XC), this being the case I would be able to reserve a seat on the next train once I had realised I needed to travel.

The only time you got full and standing trains on the WCML in recent years was Friday evenings out of Euston, and that was caused by artificial peak restrictions, which have been removed and in doing so completely solved the problem.

I've had to stand on various occasions, on GWR and EMR, and of course XC.
That of course also assumes you're physically able to get to your reserved seat as well...

 

[Iskra]

This seems entirely impractical. LNER do actually cater for quite a few short journeys. Doncaster to York for example.

The railway should be removing barriers to travel right now, not making things more hassle.

I've just had a right faff trying to book Sheffield to York next Tuesday, it literally took me 7 attempts and the first price quoted was £62 for a single. I eventually got it done for £17 return but have to endure a 2 hours plus journey time on Northern in one direction to make my journey, most people would have given up way before then I imagine.

 

[Ianno87]

.

I've just had a right faff trying to book Sheffield to York next Tuesday, it literally took me 7 attempts and the first price quoted was £62 for a single. I eventually got it done for £17 return, but most people would have given up way before then.

But that's not a function of compulsory reservations per sé, rather just the number of available reservations being so limited by social distancing.

A cleverer booking engine could work out "there's no direct seats via XC, but if you move seats at Leeds, or you get a Northern to Doncaster then LNER I can find something" (which is basically what you worked out manually)

 

[Robertj21a]

Get the OHL working properly, everywhere, get the reliability up to 99%, get fares down to a more realistic level - oh, and in any spare time please ensure that robust plans are now in place to properly communicate with passengers when trains get stuck for lengthy periods.

Only THEN start looking at any fine tuning of ticketing/reservation arrangements.

 

[Iskra]

But that's not a function of compulsory reservations per sé, rather just the number of available reservations being so limited by social distancing.

A cleverer booking engine could work out "there's no direct seats via XC, but if you move seats at Leeds, or you get a Northern to Doncaster then LNER I can find something" (which is basically what you worked out manually)

It's all just more hurdles that the discretionary passenger won't tolerate though. The railway is currently destroying its current and future custom and revenue.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's all just more hurdles that the discretionary passenger won't tolerate though. The railway is currently destroying its current and future custom and revenue.

Those passengers want to book an InterCity journey like a plane or coach. They don't want the complexity of Permitted Routes, TOC restrictions etc.

 

[DB]

Those passengers want to book an InterCity journey like a plane or coach. They don't want the complexity of Permitted Routes, TOC restrictions etc.

Let them then - but don't make it difficult for the regular passengers who go short distances and just want to be able to turn up and get on the next train! The railway pretty much already does both anyway, although not as well as it could in either case.