Crewe Delays 16 Sep

[Llanigraham]

Changing points, it's done elsewhere on branch lines so there must be a way of drivers changing points.

I can only think of one place that a driver "changes the points" and that is down in Cornwall and from what I have seen he goes to a small "box" and pulls a lever. I suspect that you haven't realised that most points are not provided with those levers, so the switches have to be either "barred over" or if electrically operated there is a pump that has to be done. The points then have to be clamped closed with a special (heavy) item.
Not as simple as you thought, I'm guessing?

 

[M60lad]

Looks like its affecting other Avanti West Coast services aswell as I've noticed tonight that some Euston-Liverpool Lime Street services have had delayed departures due to a faul with a signalling system unless this is a different fault to the one in Manchester area.

If it is the same one it could be that a Manchester service has got to London Euston late affecting its next duty which could be the service to Lime Street.

 

[Bald Rick]

Looks like its affecting other Avanti West Coast services aswell as I've noticed tonight that some Euston-Liverpool Lime Street services have had delayed departures due to a faul with a signalling system unless this is a different fault to the one in Manchester area.

If it is the same one it could be that a Manchester service has got to London Euston late affecting its next duty which could be the service to Lime Street.

Thats right.

 

[185]

Nothing confirmed but someone out of a certain company's control room reckoned it was a substantial amount of cable stolen yesterday evening 'near Sandbach' ...Quite believable, as we've had a few identical incidents probably from the same culprits over the last five years, all in the exact same place.

This outage, I think geographically corresponds with an entire workstation in the ROC / Signalling Centre.

 

[4F89]

Nothing confirmed but someone out of a certain company's control room reckoned it was a substantial amount of cable stolen yesterday evening 'near Sandbach' ...Quite believable, as we've had a few identical incidents probably from the same culprits over the last five years, all in the exact same place.

This outage, I think geographically corresponds with an entire workstation in the ROC / Signalling Centre.

Take the right foot of cable from the roc and the whole lot goes down. Or blow the right fuse etc

 

[jonnyfan]

Is this fixed now? I am travelling again tomorrow.

Tomorrow by the looks of it will be the same as today,
1 Avanti train per hour to London via Macclesfield
1 CrossCountry train per hour via Macclesfield
1 Northern train every 2 hours stopper to Stoke
Crewe line all buses.
And I would expect 60-120 minute delays to the services that are running, similar to that of today.

Apparently, all the telecoms equipment has already been checked, with no faults found. As of tonight, after over 24 hours, Network Rail are no closer to figuring out, let alone fix, whatever the problem is!

 

[LRV3004]

I caught 1M62 from Stoke at 1944 and ended up arriving at Piccadilly over 90 late! Judging by what I've been reading, think I'll be heading into work via Chat Moss and Warrington tomorrow.....

 

[Dieseldriver]

I can only think of one place that a driver "changes the points" and that is down in Cornwall and from what I have seen he goes to a small "box" and pulls a lever. I suspect that you haven't realised that most points are not provided with those levers, so the switches have to be either "barred over" or if electrically operated there is a pump that has to be done. The points then have to be clamped closed with a special (heavy) item.
Not as simple as you thought, I'm guessing?

But on my model railway you just flick the points across with your finger when you want to change them.....

 

[timothyw9]

I've just watched 1A62, already 69 minutes late leaving Piccadilly, wait for about 30 minutes at EY1 25. The train in front of it, 2K18 stopper to Stoke, was mid-way between Macclesfield and Congleton before 1A62 followed it, at which point 1A62 was 106 minutes late. So it's a painfully slow bottleneck. In the down direction, trains can leave Macclesfield but get held at Prestbury, Macclesfield's last signal, for a similar period - in the case of 1H38 it only left Prestbury when the train it was following - 2H81 - was at Levenshulme. Clearly the necessary safeguards in allowing trains to pass signals at danger can't be rushed.

The next part of this post has nothing to do with the last part of the post, but the forum software merged two separate posts of mine into one:


Manchester Evening News reporting TfGM saying there will be "an emergency timetable" tomorrow. https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...piccadilly-trains-disrupted-tomorrow-18953878

Amusingly the MEN has included TPE as an affected operator.

The only thing I can see affecting TPE might be increased patronage for people going across to the ECML to get to London maybe?

 

[4F89]

Amusingly the MEN has included TPE as an affected operator.

The only thing I can see affecting TPE might be increased patronage for people going across to the ECML to get to London maybe?

They will still be part of the bumpy ride, they can't avoid all the carnage of other trains being in the wrong place. It won't be major, but there will still be fallout

 

[M60lad]

After all the problems yesterday looks like Cross Country have already given up trying to get to/from Manchester today and will be terminating/starting their services at either Macclesfield or Stoke-On-Trent, just hope that means there's going to be appropriate Rail Replacements in place today taking people to/from Stockport/Manchester to connect into these services.

 

[Ianno87]

But on my model railway you just flick the points across with your finger when you want to change them.....

I wonder if NR have tried using their giant track rubber to solve the problem?

 

[ValleyLines142]

After all the problems yesterday looks like Cross Country have already given up trying to get to/from Manchester today and will be terminating/starting their services at either Macclesfield or Stoke-On-Trent, just hope that means there's going to be appropriate Rail Replacements in place today taking people to/from Stockport/Manchester to connect into these services.

Transport for Wales are also seemingly doing the same and only running as far as Crewe for the time being (this morning anyway!).

 

[GB]

NR seem no further forward identifying where the problem is coming from so doesn't sound like cable theft.

 

[jfollows]

It may be completely irrelevant, but yesterday data provided to - for example - Open Train Times was showing the passage of trains and status of routes set over points through the MS-controlled area. Today this information is absent.

 

[Spandau]

Tomorrow, Saturday, there is planned engineering work with Avanti and Cross Country services that normally run via Macclesfield/Stoke scheduled to operate via Wilmslow/Crewe. Northern trains from Manchester to Stoke terminate at Macclesfield with buses south thereof.

 

[M60lad]

What is the nature of the weekend engineering works between Macclesfield & Stoke-On-Trent?

If the current problems persist into tomorrow will any extra Rail Replacements run between Manchester/Stockport and Crewe?

 

[Ianno87]

What is the nature of the weekend engineering works between Macclesfield & Stoke-On-Trent?

If the current problems persist into tomorrow will any extra Rail Replacements run between Manchester/Stockport and Crewe?

Possibly a case of considering postponing the weekend works via Stoke (which won't be without consequences, of course) if the current problems aren't resolved.

 

[LRV3004]

Was thinking of heading over to the IoW for the day tomorrow......I think I’ll leave it for another week or so!!!

 

[CW2]

NRE website states:
"There is no firm estimate yet of how long disruption will last but it is likely to continue until the start of service on Monday 21 September."

 

[M60lad]

Avanti West Coast now running a limited shuttle service Manchester Piccadilly-Crewe non-stop via Chatt Moss and but not stopping at Warrington Bank Quay

 

[gnolife]

Amusingly the MEN has included TPE as an affected operator.

The only thing I can see affecting TPE might be increased patronage for people going across to the ECML to get to London maybe?

If there's disruption through Stockport, then it's probably affecting the Cleethorpes runs

 

[43096]

Apparently, all the telecoms equipment has already been checked, with no faults found. As of tonight, after over 24 hours, Network Rail are no closer to figuring out, let alone fix, whatever the problem is!

The root cause was Railtrack buying from Ansaldo in the first place!

 

[jfollows]

If there's disruption through Stockport, then it's probably affecting the Cleethorpes runs

The 1884 vintage signal box at Edgeley Junction No. 1 is working fine, there's no disruption to any of the routes it controls including the branch to Hazel Grove used by the Cleethorpe services.

 

[LowLevel]

The 1884 vintage signal box at Edgeley Junction No. 1 is working fine, there's no disruption to any of the routes it controls including the branch to Hazel Grove used by the Cleethorpe services.

To be fair the kit in that box now mostly dates from the mid 2000s, just like the Manchester South stuff. The difference is it isn't the crappy Ansaldo system

 

[scrapy]

The root cause was Railtrack buying from Ansaldo in the first place!

The area Manchester South covers, signalling has generally in been pretty reliable over the last 15 or more years since this was installed. It's not like it's a new bit of kit that's been unreliable from the start.

 

[Rail Ranger]

To be fair the kit in that box now mostly dates from the mid 2000s, just like the Manchester South stuff. The difference is it isn't the crappy Ansaldo system

I'm fairly sure that Edgeley Junction No.1 box still has its original 19th century lever frame.

 

[jfollows]

I'm fairly sure that Edgeley Junction No.1 box still has its original 19th century lever frame.

And some of the levers themselves will have been replaced with shorter ones when the points were motorised (and ground signals replaced with electrical ones) earlier this century, but I don't think Ansaldo will have been a potential supplier of the replacements.

 

[Andy Pacer]

Fortunately my advance Rugby to Euston tickets for tomorrow are on an Avanti service originating at Brum!

 

[6Gman]

There is a way for traincrew - not necessarily drivers, it is usually guards or travelling shunters - to change points on running lines, if a ground frame is provided and can be released into local control by the signaller, or if the line is single track and worked by staff or token, a key to the ground frame can be built into the token. But if there is no ground frame, which is the case for these and almost all other mainline junctions on safety grounds, and the lines are very far from single track, then no, drivers have no possible way of changing points. Basically, traincrew point working has to be designed into the signalling before an incident happens, and can't be instituted at a moments notice.

Thank you for that explanation. I just found the idea that a driver could alight at Wilmslow and start throwing points over rather unlikely.