LNER Considering Requiring Passengers to Check-in Before Travel

[CBlue]

What's that got to do with paper tickets then?

Probably that the majority of passengers can use their contactless bank card to access any TFL connections needed for a cross-london journey?

Smartcards and contactless aren't the be all and end all solution though.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Probably that the majority of passengers can use their contactless bank card to access any TFL connections needed for a cross-london journey?

I'd have no issue with removal of LU validity from through tickets with a couple of quid knocked off, I've said so elsewhere. But there are valid reasons for wanting a cross London through ticket - not least how restrictions work - and they won't be able to issue them at all.

 

[yorksrob]

I'd have no issue with removal of LU validity from through tickets with a couple of quid knocked off, I've said so elsewhere. But there are valid reasons for wanting a cross London through ticket - not least how restrictions work - and they won't be able to issue them at all.

That two quid knocked off could soon dissappear with inflation. Not enabling cross London interchange would be a hugely retrograde step.

 

[cactustwirly]

That two quid knocked off could soon dissappear with inflation. Not enabling cross London interchange would be a hugely retrograde step.

Agreed

 

[crablab]

Not a lot. Does any TOC even issue single and return point to point tickets on it?

SWR, carnets are technically singles. They may issue other tickets, I can't remember. Southern issue singles and returns on smartcard.

Probably that the majority of passengers can use their contactless bank card to access any TFL connections needed for a cross-london journey?

More that full implementation of ITSO Transit Hub would solve this issue by allowing you to use an ITSO compliant card/device (eg. phone) to issue these cross London tickets on.

 

[takno]

SWR, carnets are technically singles. They may issue other tickets, I can't remember. Southern issue singles and returns on smartcard.



More that full implementation of ITSO Transit Hub would solve this issue by allowing you to use an ITSO compliant card/device (eg. phone) to issue these cross London tickets on.

Or, and do stop me if this is a bit blue sky thinking and controversial here: the printer could just print cardboard tickets.

 

[Hadders]

As for mandatory reservations - I'm really not sure I understand the gripes. You can make one up to 5 mins before the train leaves, you just have to type a few details in the LNER website, and will spit one out if your ticket doesn't have one. It's really not the biggest nuisance in the world (compared to wearing a mask for hours at a time on board)

I tried to make a reservation for a short distance LNER journey a few minutes before departure last week but the train was full. In normal times I would simply stand but if compulsory reservations remain this will be a problem.

I'd have no issue with removal of LU validity from through tickets with a couple of quid knocked off, I've said so elsewhere. But there are valid reasons for wanting a cross London through ticket - not least how restrictions work - and they won't be able to issue them at all.

£4.80 needs to be knocked off a return ticket (and that's before what I expect will be an inflation busting increase in Zone 1 fares next year). There is no way rail tickets are going to be reduced by that sort of amount.

 

[E100]

As many others have said. Not a fan of the erosion of turn up and go even on the longer distance services. It's a key differentiator between plane and train on longer distance journeys, especially so for business users. In my opinion, it starts to undo the good work of reducing the domestic flight market and transferring that market to rail as it mitigates a key convenience. I understand it's optional currently but it seems like the thin end of the wedge as has been the case with so many other things.

 

[lkpridgeon]

Not a lot. Does any TOC even issue single and return point to point tickets on it?

SWR does and I think the Govia key system allows for it.

 

[londonteacher]

Going forwards, where track and trace is going to be around for a while yet, compulsory reservations are a great idea. It would help to track people possibly affected by a positive case of any contagious or communicable disease.

Yes there are problems such as missed connections that the industry need to iron out but that's the same with any new thing introduced.

Turn up and go tickets could still be purchased and a reservation made if the TOCs always left a portion of the train empty when selling tickets. I suspect the overall number of turn up and go tickets are small in most cases. Reservations could even be made at the station before departure using a ticket office or ticket machine.

This system may not suit everybody but the fact that it is being suggested for LNER who is run by the government only suggests that this maybe happening for other TOCs once they are under DfT control!

 

[takno]

Going forwards, where track and trace is going to be around for a while yet, compulsory reservations are a great idea. It would help to track people possibly affected by a positive case of any contagious or communicable disease.

Yes there are problems such as missed connections that the industry need to iron out but that's the same with any new thing introduced.

Turn up and go tickets could still be purchased and a reservation made if the TOCs always left a portion of the train empty when selling tickets. I suspect the overall number of turn up and go tickets are small in most cases. Reservations could even be made at the station before departure using a ticket office or ticket machine.

This system may not suit everybody but the fact that it is being suggested for LNER who is run by the government only suggests that this maybe happening for other TOCs once they are under DfT control!

Great, so you want it to not only be inconvenient but also to increase the risk that we'll be forced to self-isolate at huge personal cost just because somebody in the carriage turned out to have Covid?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Great, so you want it to not only be inconvenient but also to increase the risk that we'll be forced to self-isolate at huge personal cost just because somebody in the carriage turned out to have Covid?

If they knew where you were sitting, it wouldn't be the whole carriage.

 

[takno]

If they knew where you were sitting, it wouldn't be the whole carriage.

You're not sitting anywhere near anyone at the moment on any services that could possibly do reservations. So what do you gain, apart from the ability for a panicker in the test and trace outfit to decide to mess up the lives of a carriage full of people?

 

[Bletchleyite]

You're not sitting anywhere near anyone at the moment on any services that could possibly do reservations. So what do you gain, apart from the ability for a panicker in the test and trace outfit to decide to mess up the lives of a carriage full of people?

You mean apart from the ability to contain the virus?

Track and trace is the only way to let us reduce other restrictions.

 

[DB]

Going forwards, where track and trace is going to be around for a while yet, compulsory reservations are a great idea. It would help to track people possibly affected by a positive case of any contagious or communicable disease.

It will also make trains entirely usless for many people. I've been holding off getting a car as I really don't like driving, but it's now getting to the point where I may well have no other options - I cannot realistically use trains if they implement compulsory reservations.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It will also make trains entirely usless for many people. I've been holding off getting a car as I really don't like driving, but it's now getting to the point where I may well have no other options - I cannot realistically use trains if they implement compulsory reservations.

I'm not in normal circumstances in favour of such a policy, but I'm not sure why that is the case. You book the latest return journey you might need, and pull it earlier if you need to and can.

 

[DB]

I'm not in normal circumstances in favour of such a policy, but I'm not sure why that is the case. You book the latest return journey you might need, and pull it earlier if you need to and can.

If I'm travelling for work I've often no idea why I might need to travel. So if I finish early and there are no earlier reservations, an hour or two waiting on a station in the middle of winter? No thanks. If they make the railways this user-unfriendly they will have become an even worse option than a car.

 

[Taunton]

As many others have said. Not a fan of the erosion of turn up and go even on the longer distance services. It's a key differentiator between plane and train on longer distance journeys, especially so for business users.

More particularly, it will become a differentiator between train and car. When I do a business trip I have little idea when I am coming back, sometimes when I am going outward as well. If I can't leave my meeting in Manchester when work finishes the train loses all its attraction, and I'll drive instead. THEN I can leave when I want, and it doesn't cost me any more.

Whatever is the point of providing trains at Metro-like frequencies, every 20 minutes London to Manchester, if I can't use them like a Metro but am just tied to having to forecast just one of those departures for my ticket. One of the key aspects which has allowed long distance trains to hold my business in recent times is the way that coming home from Bristol, Manchester, York, wherever, I no longer am looking at a certain train but it has become just Turn Up And Go. Extraordinary that one side of the industry has worked hard towards this while another side sets out to thwart it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If I'm travelling for work I've often no idea why I might need to travel. So if I finish early and there are no earlier reservations, an hour or two waiting on a station in the middle of winter? No thanks. If they make the railways this user-unfriendly they will have become an even worse option than a car.

The other side of the argument is that the on-board travelling environment is superior, because there will be no standees, and on boarding you know you have a seat (so for example it would end the Euston scrum).

 

[DB]

The other side of the argument is that the on-board travelling environment is superior, because there will be no standees, and on boarding you know you have a seat (so for example it would end the Euston scrum).

But if you are commuting (less than an hour), that's not likely to be a factor. If I'm travelling around Yorkshire I'm not really bothered about a seat - if I can get one, great, but if I have to stand, so be it. It's certainly not worth losing the flexibility.

 

[crablab]

Or, and do stop me if this is a bit blue sky thinking and controversial here: the printer could just print cardboard tickets.

RDG and the Government want to increase smart ticketing so...

 

[yorkie]

We have been drifting away from the thread title; a little drift is fine of course but if anyone wishes to discuss other topics, the best thing to do is create a new thread (if there isn't one already) and you are welcome to link to it here, if it's related.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But if you are commuting (less than an hour), that's not likely to be a factor. If I'm travelling around Yorkshire I'm not really bothered about a seat - if I can get one, great, but if I have to stand, so be it. It's certainly not worth losing the flexibility.

I don't think Northern is going to end up with compulsory reservations/"checkin", and I doubt TPE would be likely to either as however pretentious they get they are a poshed up regional express operation. This is (re the thread title) regarding LNER, which primarily exists to provide InterCity travel.

Do regional expresses require compulsory reservations in any country? I can't think of one.

 

[DB]

I don't think Northern is going to end up with compulsory reservations/"checkin", and I doubt TPE would be likely to either as however pretentious they get they are a poshed up regional express operation. This is (re the thread title) regarding LNER, which primarily exists to provide InterCity travel.

Do regional expresses require compulsory reservations in any country? I can't think of one.

I use LNER quite a bit as it happens, within Yorkshire. They are the main operator between York and Doncaster, and I also normally use several of their more infrequent services as those happen to be at the time I am often travelling.

 

[Taunton]

I finish my business meeting in York whenever, call a cab, whenever it turns up I go to the station to go on to Newcastle where I am overnighting (I really did this), because it was sensible to do York and Newcastle in one trip. Trains York to Newcastle are :

16.42 Cross Country
16.55 LNER
17.07 LNER
17.16 Cross Country
17.21 Trans Pennine
17.31 Cross Country
17.34 LNER

am I somehow expected to know exactly when I will be there for the next one. For a start, they are unlikely on any day to run in that sequence, or to time. I book on LNER, only to find when I get to the station the wires are down at Peterborough but the others are running to time.

I do wonder if this LNER approach is some sort of Reverse-Orcats Raid, where they will still get their original share of the revenue but have pushed people off to other operators by making reservation difficulties.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I do wonder if this LNER approach is some sort of Reverse-Orcats Raid, where they will still get their original share of the revenue but have pushed people off to other operators by making reservation difficulties.

The main reason for it is COVID, I think you're getting conspiratorial by thinking otherwise.

 

[43096]

The main reason for it is COVID, I think you're getting conspiratorial by thinking otherwise.

Nah, that’s just a convenient excuse. The TOCs have wanted to go down this route for years.

 

[Taunton]

The main reason for it is COVID, I think you're getting conspiratorial by thinking otherwise.

I don't believe so. Has LNER made any statement that this is ONLY for the virus period and they are going to go back to normal ways as soon as it is over?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Nah, that’s just a convenient excuse. The TOCs have wanted to go down this route for years.

I don't think they give a stuff about compulsory reservations (because cramming in a standing load is more profitable than just filling the seats). What I can see them wanting to go for is to remove walk-up fares and go for airline style pricing for efficient yield management, which is a slightly different thing - and thus far LNER don't appear to have done so.

 

[adrock1976]

Regarding the check in confirmation email, when will I be sent one for an upcoming trip on Monday?

I booked this on the GWR website as my journey is Croy to H665 (Tyne & Wear Metro All Zones) as the LNER website does not recognise H665 but only recognises the Central Zones (my actual destination is Whitley Bay) or Airport/Sunderland area stations.