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Low Speed Derailment Sheffield 11/11

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Philip Phlopp

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Many years ago I was walking past a building site when one of the world's largest mobile cranes at the time suddenly collapsed because of a hydraulics failure on one of the outriggers. I only escaped because it caught on the corner of a building that I was next too. Someone just in front of me was crushed to death instantly by the pulley block.

I still walk 'round the block' to avoid going under or near cranes.

I've seen more chains, ropes and slings break than I care to remember. I know people underestimate the forces involved - so to illustrate this point, the uneducated further upthread should be well aware that loss of limbs and various methods of death including decapitation are both easily obtainable by standing within the area in which a failing chain or rope can reach. And they can obviously stretch, so the danger area can be larger than expected.
How can anyone writing here possibly know what those guys were or weren’t doing at that precise time? Given that the Kirow driver isn’t watching the lift, it seems to me its’s not actually being lifted. Shall we just let the recovery teams get on with it?

They can't. They never can. It's like all of the uneducated dross about using CAT dozers upthread. I'm assuming there's also some crap upthread about re-railing with planks of wood or hammers like they used to do during the war or something, all conveniently ignoring the absence of signalling equipment, our loading gauge and the damage it does to the track itself.
 
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Bald Rick

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They can't. They never can. It's like all of the uneducated dross about using CAT dozers upthread. I'm assuming there's also some crap upthread about re-railing with planks of wood or hammers like they used to do during the war or something, all conveniently ignoring the absence of signalling equipment, our loading gauge and the damage it does to the track itself.

Yup. Upthread we used to get services up and running in 20 minutes with 2 blokes and a sledgehammer. But then we also used to send 5 year olds up chimneys.
 

edwin_m

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How can anyone writing here possibly know what those guys were or weren’t doing at that precise time? Given that the Kirow driver isn’t watching the lift, it seems to me its’s not actually being lifted. Shall we just let the recovery teams get on with it?
They may be having a "toolbox talk" to confirm the safety arrangements before the start of the lift itself.
Well, if it happens at the western side of the station then you'd like to think that the eastern side of the station could at least function but the fact that those platforms can only accommodate southbound services scuppers that - I'm not saying it'd be cheap to change the signalling to permit services to depart 6/8 northbound but it'd be a big benefit if they could - that kind of relatively modest proposal that we should be focussing more on.
No doubt someone somewhere is thinking about re-modelling and re-signaling of Sheffield for HS2, and if that doesn't go ahead a more modest scheme would almost certainly happen instead, as the existing signaling can't be far off life expiry. However, no decision can be made about which to go ahead with until a decision is made on HS2 eastern leg.
 

dosxuk

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No doubt someone somewhere is thinking about re-modelling and re-signaling of Sheffield for HS2, and if that doesn't go ahead a more modest scheme would almost certainly happen instead, as the existing signaling can't be far off life expiry. However, no decision can be made about which to go ahead with until a decision is made on HS2 eastern leg.

Since services were being dispatched north off P8 on a shunt signal, I wonder how much it would actually take to get that upgraded to a fully signalled move? It does seem like an oversight that there are no northbound moves allowed for from that side of the station.


10 people standing watching a crane lift a tank.
No wonder our railways cost so much to run!
But nothing is moving. There will be a small specialist team engaged in the task of lifting the wagons. Anyone not directly involved in this is getting in the road and increasing the risk. Too many people on site in my view.
Not at all. It's ludicrous to have people standing doing nothing like that right next to a big lift. Several things can happen - chains can snap and go wild, or even this [snip] Hi-viz won't save you.
Tauton good point and one of NR's lifesaving rules is around exclusion zones being maintained around plant and lifting operations. I believe it was 5m for those not directly involved with the lift.

I'm kind of wishing I hadn't posted any photos now, if all people are going to do is criticise the people out there doing the work. Can I suggest those members who have judged the entire site safety regime from a single photo presented without commentary contact the HSE with their issues rather than posting them on an enthusiasts forum? They can do something about it, although I'm not sure how much respect they would treat such complaints with.

For what it's worth (and I've never been involved with lifting anything on the railway, but have in the construction and entertainment industries), I saw nothing of concern in the few minutes I was walking past the site. There were a large number of onlookers (public, both on platforms and from above the station) so if anything dangerous actually happened there will be photos and reports of it. Personally, I prefer to trust the people who are being paid to do a job to do it safely and within the rules rather than the armchair observers who have seen a single picture of a single moment in time.



On a more positive note, it's worthwhile noting that in my most recent picture, one of the tank wagons has been lifted onto the area at the end of platform 1. Guessing that one will be leaving by road then.
 

londonmidland

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A photo off Twitter showing work commencing at the north end of platform 1.
 

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Daniel740

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It’s been five days and repairs still haven’t been completed, how absolutely ridiculous. In Japan, Germany in fact anywhere else the line would have been opened the next day...
 

Killingworth

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It’s been five days and repairs still haven’t been completed, how absolutely ridiculous. In Japan, Germany in fact anywhere else the line would have been opened the next day...
Almost done. Latest cement train keeping well clear!IMG_20201116_090645.jpg
 
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zwk500

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It’s been five days and repairs still haven’t been completed, how absolutely ridiculous. In Japan, Germany in fact anywhere else the line would have been opened the next day...
Can you point to a recent incident in either of these countries (or anywhere else) to evidence this?
 

Nicholas Lewis

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It’s been five days and repairs still haven’t been completed, how absolutely ridiculous. In Japan, Germany in fact anywhere else the line would have been opened the next day...
The P.Way teams didn't get access til yesterday morning so to have replaced full set of switches and several hundred yards of track is good going.
Also positive is the fact that they've kept running trains in / out of the station throughout shows some return to taking a sensible approach in these situations.
 
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TC60054

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What a difference a day makes! Also note that the points into the north siding (those that were under the derailed wagons) which hasn't been used for the last year or so haven't been reinstated with the infrastructure repairs.
 

Taunton

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Let us not dismiss the experience of some here. The first lift I had peripheral involvement with that went wrong (bottom fell out of the suspended load) was ... 43 years ago. Fortunately nobody close. Paperwork though, my bit (costs, insurance claim) went on for ever.

It's apparent the lifting chains are under tension here.

It's like all of the uneducated dross about using CAT dozers upthread. I'm assuming there's also some crap upthread about re-railing with planks of wood or hammers like they used to do during the war or something, all conveniently ignoring the absence of signalling equipment, our loading gauge and the damage it does to the track itself.
If you look at that again you will see they are not Dozers!!!! Caterpillar can manufacture a lot more than that (including complete main line locomotives nowadays). These are specialist manufactured pieces of kit for the rail industry, handled by operators who know their stuff and get everything up and out of the way readily. They are tracked lifting jacks designed for just this task. Damage to the track - notice the machine tracks spread the load out wide, and are made of substantial rubber blocks. Which is a lot less damaging than 12 wheels on a 120-ton locomotive, each with a contact area just the size of a coin.

Furthermore, I don't write uneducated dross.
 

dosxuk

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Let us not dismiss the experience of some here. The first lift I had peripheral involvement with that went wrong (bottom fell out of the suspended load) was ... 43 years ago. Fortunately nobody close. Paperwork though, my bit (costs, insurance claim) went on for ever.

Nobody is dismissing people's experience. What they (and I) am dismissing is the ability for people to make a conclusion about the safety of an operation from a single image.

It's apparent the lifting chains are under tension here.

They clearly aren't. Even disregarding the fact the photo was taken from about 200m away on a camera phone, you can see the chains are not in a straight line from crane to the ground. They don't even look like they're attached on the left hand side!

Which reminds me, I have other images taken at the time. Here's one from 3 minutes earlier.

20201114_141936.jpg

Can we please move on from the idea that all these people were ignoring the rules, ignoring their own safety and acting recklessly in the middle of a lift now?
 

61653 HTAFC

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Another planet...
It’s been five days and repairs still haven’t been completed, how absolutely ridiculous. In Japan, Germany in fact anywhere else the line would have been opened the next day...
A couple of years back, a German ICE unit burst into flames on the Cologne to Frankfurt line. Nothing derailed but the high-speed line was out of action for a couple of months, with everything diverted up the (significantly curvier and therefore slower) Rhine valley 'classic' line.
 

Crossover

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I see the bay platforms now say "SOWO" in the TD berth - memory is failing me a bit - can anyone enlighten me on the meaning of this acronym please?
 

baza585

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It’s been five days and repairs still haven’t been completed, how absolutely ridiculous. In Japan, Germany in fact anywhere else the line would have been opened the next day...
Glad you think so. Perhaps you could explain exactly what should have done differently in the ground by the orange army in order to facilitate your next day opening?
 

43055

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I see the bay platforms now say "SOWO" in the TD berth - memory is failing me a bit - can anyone enlighten me on the meaning of this acronym please?
Do you mean SOWC? which is Showing Occupied When Clear.
 

Sunset route

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Is there a list of these acronyms used by signallers please?

Not in general as we are free to write whatever we want into the train describer berth to act as our personal reminder, as long as it’s not rude. Having said that there are some well used ones that tend to get used country wide.
 

2192

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Which freight operator runs the cement trains from Hope Earles Sidings to Dewsbury (such as the derailed one)?
 

D9006

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There must be every type of coach available at the moment, because no one is going anywhere. Every coach operator's base has a yard packed full of them when you drive past. It's just an excuse to do nothing and provide rubbish customer service as usual.
Yes, you are dead right there are loads of coaches parked up doing nothing, nothing since March at the earliest. So hence quite a lot are probably out of MOT, even if had an MOT they will need an inspection to be put back on the road. They will have no Tax on them, the insurance on them is laid up cover, the drivers yes even if furloughed can be bought back at a moments notice if work is available, I speak with experience as a Transport Manager of a Coach Firm, most insurance companies want you to pay a 2 weeks premium minimum. So the cost of putting coaches back on to the road is way above the fee from providing Railway Replacement Services, the fee at which is not worth turning out for, £300 for a 12 hour standby, or £750 for an 18 hour shift. Hence the reluctance of operators to turn out.
 

Mcq

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Not in general as we are free to write whatever we want into the train describer berth to act as our personal reminder, as long as it’s not rude. Having said that there are some well used ones that tend to get used country wide.
Hi Sunset Route - thanks for reply - I sort of wondered that having seen the berths around KX recently.
I looked at 40355's list but many of them are more than chars and there was no mention of the most widely one used round here T3
 
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Hi Sunset Route - thanks for reply - I sort of wondered that having seen the berths around KX recently.
I looked at 40355's list but many of them are more than chars and there was no mention of the most widely one used round here T3
T3 is an engineering possession, used nationwide - the code now shorthand but originally coming from the rule book.
 
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