Low Speed Derailment Sheffield 11/11

[zwk500]

Surely more platforms available than that from the south at least? Whats wrong with 5/6/8?

6 can't be access from the south due to signalling limitations. The overlap to enter 5 from the south may be fouled by the derailed train. Platform 8 is being used. Lots of units are stabled in Sheffield station overnight, it may well be the case that 8 had a unit in it when the incident happened that has now been cleared

 

[Sleepy]

EMR confirm they can use Platforms 7 & 8 now.

 

[Crossover]

Would I be correct in thinking that anything north from p8 would cross over at Nunnery Main Line Jn?

 

[MadCommuter]

The train had come off the Hope Valley, and was heading to Dewsbury. Exactly what other route was it meant to run?

Ah, sorry, didn't realise it was ex-Hope Valley. It would appear that there isn't another option. I was reading earlier comments about other routes and presumed, wrongly, that this would apply to the freight.

 

[zwk500]

Would I be correct in thinking that anything north from p8 would cross over at Nunnery Main Line Jn?

Yes. that is how XC are operating

 

[dk1]

I would imagine the use of some diversionary routes particularly for XC are limited at the moment due to suspension of much route refreshing due to in cab social distancing issues. It's been over six months too since the pandemic began.

 

[zwk500]

I would imagine the use of some diversionary routes particularly for XC are limited at the moment due to suspension of much route refreshing due to in cab social distancing issues. It's been over six months too since the pandemic began.

As was said above (post #23), XC don't maintain knowledge of the diversions in normal times, it isn't just a COVID thing. Probably because they don't run any trains that would feasbily avoid Sheffield (EM use the ECS moves to/from Derby to maintain knowledge of the Old Road).

 

[Ianno87]

I would imagine the use of some diversionary routes particularly for XC are limited at the moment due to suspension of much route refreshing due to in cab social distancing issues. It's been over six months too since the pandemic began.

From http://www.psul4all.free-online.co.uk/2020.html it looks like XC don't (nor any TOC) have any regular 'route learner' service planned between Beighton Jn and Masborough Jn to maintain knowledge via this route via a normal service train (they only do the 'Old Road' to get to Sheffield the long way around from Derby)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2020 ==

As was said above (post #23), XC don't maintain knowledge of the diversions in normal times, it isn't just a COVID thing. Probably because they don't run any trains that would feasbily avoid Sheffield (EM use the ECS moves to/from Derby to maintain knowledge of the Old Road).

XC do ordinarily send:
1V81 0559 Sheffield - Reading
1M00 1700 Glasgow Central - Birmingham New Street

Via the 'Old Road' to maintain route knowledge, but reversing out of Sheffield via Nunnery.

 

[zwk500]

From http://www.psul4all.free-online.co.uk/2020.html it looks like XC don't (nor any TOC) have any regular 'route learner' service planned between Beighton Jn and Masborough Jn to maintain knowledge via this route via a normal service train (they only do the 'Old Road' to get to Sheffield the long way around from Derby)

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2020 ==



XC do ordinarily send:
1V81 0559 Sheffield - Reading
1M00 1700 Glasgow Central - Birmingham New Street

Via the 'Old Road' to maintain route knowledge, but reversing out of Sheffield via Nunnery.

So they still serve Sheffield, and therefore are missing the key part of the diversionary route that would have been necessary in this instance. But thanks for pointing out the reversals, interesting to know they do cover for failure south of Sheffield.

 

[Ianno87]

So they still serve Sheffield, and therefore are missing the key part of the diversionary route that would have been necessary in this instance. But thanks for pointing out the reversals, interesting to know they do cover for failure south of Sheffield.

Yes, in this scenario they can serve Sheffield entirely via their normal route; only signing the Old Road route isn't massively helpful in this scenario.

*If* they signed Beighton-Masborough they'd probably be avoiding Sheffield entirely to ease congestion.

 

[class 9]

I would imagine the use of some diversionary routes particularly for XC are limited at the moment due to suspension of much route refreshing due to in cab social distancing issues. It's been over six months too since the pandemic began.

All reviews are being done by video on Tablets at the moment.

 

[Taunton]

So, in the name of equality, no-one gets to travel at all. The "reasonable adjustment" clause in the legislation should allow whatever is available in an emergency to be used by those who can, and ensure a bespoke solution is provided for any exceptions.

Oh no, that's the 20th century approach. Nowadays being politically correct, and virtue signalling that you have done so, is far more important.

We have to be grateful that this happened in England. If in Scotland the police would have closed it as a "crime scene" for the next three months.

 

[OneOffDave]

We have to be grateful that this happened in England. If in Scotland the police would have closed it as a "crime scene" for the next three months.

Which non-fatal derailment have the police in Scotland declared a "crime scene" for three months or is that just ill informed hyperbole?

 

[Ianno87]

Which non-fatal derailment have the police in Scotland declared a "crime scene" for three months or is that just ill informed hyperbole?

I'd guess it is hyperbole, given that NR have used the prolonged closure to seemingly at least partially rebuild the bridge and embankment at Carmont once the carriages were recovered.

 

[Bungle]

Platform 1 appears to also be available, at least for Norwich-Liverpool and v.v, 1L06 Liverpool-Nottingham in it now.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Which non-fatal derailment have the police in Scotland declared a "crime scene" for three months or is that just ill informed hyperbole?

I think it is in reference to them treating carmont as a crime scene directly against the memorandum of understanding between the police and RAIB/HSE/ORR. Which is that unless there is obvious case of criminality or criminal negligence RAIB (or rail industry) will have control of the site not police. Despite no evidence at all of criminality police treated carmont as a crime scene massively delaying recovery and hampering investigations.

That is what is being reported in parts of the railway press anyway.

 

[PHILIPE]

Any guesses as to the likelihood of this being cleared by Saturday ?

I should hardly think there are any facts or guesses yet especially if there is track damage.

 

[yorksrob]

I should hardly think there are any facts or guesses yet especially if there is track damage.

Probably true. It's a good sign that some XC services are now running I suppose !

 

[island]

So, in the name of equality, no-one gets to travel at all. The "reasonable adjustment" clause in the legislation should allow whatever is available in an emergency to be used by those who can, and ensure a bespoke solution is provided for any exceptions.

Well, quite. Surely it is not outside the the wit of mankind to put the able-bodied passengers onto the available vehicles and handle the tiny minority of passengers unable to use them on accessible minicabs or suchlike.

 

[alangla]

It's difficult to know where to start with some of the idiocy that seems to be on display here. XC have 1 train a day (looks like 1M00 from Edinburgh is the only one in the current TT) that maintains knowledge of the southern half of the Old Road (good) but didn't think that there might be an unplanned scenario where knowledge of the northern part would be necessary? Presumably this means they're snookered if there's a points failure at Nunnery Main Line, Holmes or Meadowhall junctions as well? It's not like they're retaining the whole of the S&C or Cumbrian Coast - it's a short freight route which only needs 1 train at an odd time of the day to avoid Sheffield to retain.

As for the bus thing, if that's true then it's absolutely ridiculous - for the number of passengers likely to be directly impacted, surely it's well within the regulations (and probably cheaper) to offer an accessible taxi to their destination, even if that happens to be Penzance.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Was it this one?

Realtime Trains - 647V 2037 Peak Forest Cemex Sdgs to Attercliffe Sdgs Ews

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[alangla]

Which non-fatal derailment have the police in Scotland declared a "crime scene" for three months or is that just ill informed hyperbole?

Was the memorandum of understanding not a result of Strathclyde Police detaining & interviewing a train load of VT passengers in the late 1990s after a minor track-spread derailment during a diversion in the Mossend area?

 

[Killingworth]

BBC reports seem to have made this sound worse than it is. Radio 2 just saying buses replace trains to Manchester. As Northern and EMR services are running normally and TPE have been getting through for the last hour or so that sounds alarmist.

 

[dk1]

As was said above (post #23), XC don't maintain knowledge of the diversions in normal times, it isn't just a COVID thing. Probably because they don't run any trains that would feasbily avoid Sheffield (EM use the ECS moves to/from Derby to maintain knowledge of the Old Road).

I thought they had the odd diversionary route that was covered by late night trains unless the driver informed the signaller he/she didn't require it so early finish it is

 

[LowLevel]

BBC reports seem to have made this sound worse than it is. Radio 2 just saying buses replace trains to Manchester. As Northern and EMR services are running normally and TPE have been getting through for the last hour or so that sounds alarmist.

To be fair the bulk of Sheffield's trade at the minute is the East facing local services which have been suspended - they've just picked the wrong route to mention

 

[keith1879]

How are Northern and EMR able to run services from Manchester-Sheffield via Hope Valley yet TPE can't run any services to/from Sheffield is only one Platform availble?

I have seen at least one TPE train pass Davenport this morning and judging from Realtime Trains there is a reduced TPE service running.

 

[palmersears]

Was it this one?

Realtime Trains - 647V 2037 Peak Forest Cemex Sdgs to Attercliffe Sdgs Ews

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

No, it was 6E91, Earles Sidings to Dewsbury Cement:

Realtime Trains - 678W 0213 Hope (Earles Sidings) Fhh to Dewsbury Blue Circle

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[theironroad]

Oh no, that's the 20th century approach. Nowadays being politically correct, and virtue signalling that you have done so, is far more important.

We have to be grateful that this happened in England. If in Scotland the police would have closed it as a "crime scene" for the next three months.

If that's in anyway a hint at the recent Carmont tragedy near stonehaven then it's pretty disrespectful.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2020 ==

Just a note with rail replacements. They have been offered a number of coaches that are free and parked up but have refused them because they arnt PSVAR vehicles. That was at 0635.

If that's the only reason they've refused them and there are people waiting at stations because no other vehicles are available then that policy is seriously flawed.

 

[pdeaves]

If that's the only reason they've refused them and there are people waiting at stations because no other vehicles are available then that policy is seriously flawed.

I agree. 'That's what the rules say'. I am often reminded of something I heard (in an engineering standards context, but could be applied elsewhere as well) "standards are for the blind obedience of fools and the guidance of the wise".

 

[LucyP]

There must be every type of coach available at the moment, because no one is going anywhere. Every coach operator's base has a yard packed full of them when you drive past. It's just an excuse to do nothing and provide rubbish customer service as usual.