Low Speed Derailment Sheffield 11/11

[Ploughman]

There must be every type of coach available at the moment, because no one is going anywhere. Every coach operator's base has a yard packed full of them when you drive past. It's just an excuse to do nothing and provide rubbish customer service as usual.

And the drivers are where?

 

[LucyP]

All sitting at home. Most of them are self-employed or on zero hours contracts given how seasonal coach tour work is. They would all be grateful of some work and are just a phone call away.

 

[LowLevel]

There must be every type of coach available at the moment, because no one is going anywhere. Every coach operator's base has a yard packed full of them when you drive past. It's just an excuse to do nothing and provide rubbish customer service as usual.

If your drivers are on furlough they can't drive them though.

 

[Taunton]

If that's in anyway a hint at the recent Carmont tragedy near Stonehaven then it's pretty disrespectful.

Not at all. I'm sure those personally impacted by that incident are appalled at how it was used by certain parties to strut their own agenda. That's where any disrespect is.

 

[palmersears]

Watching the Railcam maps for a while, it appears platforms 1a, 2c, 7 and 8 are available. I'm not sure about 6, but assume it must be available if 8 is?

 

[Robertj21a]

There must be every type of coach available at the moment, because no one is going anywhere. Every coach operator's base has a yard packed full of them when you drive past. It's just an excuse to do nothing and provide rubbish customer service as usual.

Aren't most of those coaches off the road and SORN ?

 

[sharpley]

There must be every type of coach available at the moment, because no one is going anywhere. Every coach operator's base has a yard packed full of them when you drive past. It's just an excuse to do nothing and provide rubbish customer service as usual.

A lot of these vehicles will have been SORN to save a few pennies as well, therefore not road legal until declared back on the road.

 

[ModernRailways]

There must be every type of coach available at the moment, because no one is going anywhere. Every coach operator's base has a yard packed full of them when you drive past. It's just an excuse to do nothing and provide rubbish customer service as usual.

This most definitely isn’t the case. I’ve an acquaintance who operates for one of the larger coach companies and they’re turning down jobs now because there’s an awful lot of work. Running duplicate services etc.
The holiday coach companies may be in a different position but it’s finding drivers

 

[superkev]

It will be interesting to see how long it takes to clear the line compared with few hours it would have probably taken previous generations to lift/drag them back on the track.
K

 

[Dr Hoo]

To be fair to Cross Country on the route knowledge point, in recent years I have been most impressed at their ability to keep services on the move around Whitacre, Castle Donington, the Erewash Valley, Beighton, Woodburn, Thyburgh, Barnsley and Hare Park as needed during engineering work, flooding, failures and so forth.

Beighton-Masborough is by far the least useful diversion because it obviously means completely missing out Sheffield. As such it cannot be done by 'route retainer' passenger services at the fringes of the day.

I can't say that I ever remember being diverted via the full length of the 'Old Road' in BR's day (although I did go that way on an excursion from the West Midlands to Scarborough once).

 

[Crossover]

If your drivers are on furlough they can't drive them though.

They can be unfurloughed though - there is no minimum furlough period anymore and it can be done on a part-time basis

 

[alangla]

To be fair to Cross Country on the route knowledge point, in recent years I have been most impressed at their ability to keep services on the move around Whitacre, Castle Donington, the Erewash Valley, Beighton, Woodburn, Thyburgh, Barnsley and Hare Park as needed during engineering work, flooding, failures and so forth.

Beighton-Masborough is by far the least useful diversion because it obviously means completely missing out Sheffield. As such it cannot be done by 'route retainer' passenger services at the fringes of the day.

I can't say that I ever remember being diverted via the full length of the 'Old Road' in BR's day (although I did go that way on an excursion from the West Midlands to Scarborough once).

Even if they couldn't do it with a passenger service, this - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C87126/2020-11-08/detailed#allox_id=2 - could presumably run via the Old Road & reverse at Chesterfield. In saying that, that's assuming that it picks up the guard somewhere before Sheffield. Not much point if it's just retaining knowledge for the driver.

 

[ALEMASTER]

Latest service status...

EMR
Liverpool-Norwich: operating normally
Sheffield-London: running hourly, the second train per hour starting/terminating Derby or Chesterfield (that one normally shunts out the north end of Sheffield station to Woodbourn Junction to stable between trips).

XC
running normally utilising single line working

TPE
running normally utilising single line working

NORTHERN
Sheffield-Manchester: running normally
Sheffield-Lincoln: replacement buses
Huddersfield-Sheffield: terminating Barnsley, alternative onward services to Meadowhall/Sheffield.
Leeds-Nottingham: running normally utilising single line working
Leeds-Barnsley-Sheffield local: terminating Meadowhall, Supertram accepting train tickets Meadowhall-Sheffield
Leeds-Rotherham-Sheffield: terminating Meadowhall, Supertram accepting train tickets Rotherham Central and Meadowhall to Sheffield
York-Pontefract-Sheffield: suspended
Scarborough-Hull-Sheffield: terminating Doncaster, alternative services available Doncaster to Sheffield.
Doncaster-Sheffield all stations: replacement bus running Doncaster to Meadowhall, Supertram accepting train tickets Rotherham Central and Meadowhall to Sheffield

Supertram yellow route runs Middlewood - Sheffield Cathedral - Meadowhall up to every 15 minutes.
Supertram tram train route runs Sheffield Cathedral - Rotherham Central - Parkgate hourly.
Blue and Purple route provides a conncection from Sheffield Station to the Yellow and TT routes at Fitzalan Square.
Timetables https://www.stagecoachbus.com/news/...am-timetable-updates-from-saturday-7-november or use the Stagecoach app.

Latest train service updates: https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/today.aspx

 

[class 9]

Even if they couldn't do it with a passenger service, this - https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C87126/2020-11-08/detailed#allox_id=2 - could presumably run via the Old Road & reverse at Chesterfield. In saying that, that's assuming that it picks up the guard somewhere before Sheffield. Not much point if it's just retaining knowledge for the driver.

Could reverse at Beighton Jct, but as sunday is outside the working week, plenty of Drivers don't work early sundays, so it would only cover a few Drivers that do regular earliest, also as it only runs once a week, you can go months without covering it, so the route knowledge lapses(6 months is the max length of time between working a particular route)

 

[Bungle]

I’m absolutely sure the full length has been used before, when major work was done at Sheffield years ago - possibly resignalling of the entire area but can’t remember exactly what, but it was associated with the north end of Sheffield being blocked. Remember the timetables showing trains from the south calling Chesterfield - Sheffield - Chesterfield again (possibly unadvertised, can’t remember) then reversing again to run the full length bypassing Sheffield (and vice-versa for southbounds.) VERY long way round and never saw it again, and it was only for a very short period.

I guess with planned works the route would have been learned specifically or even route-conducted, in the same manner as diverting via Castle Donington when Derby was closed? But presume it isn’t retained as a regular diversion because it’s not worth the logistical hassle and expense.

 

[The Planner]

It will be interesting to see how long it takes to clear the line compared with few hours it would have probably taken previous generations to lift/drag them back on the track.
K

No use if the track they put them back on is knackered though is it.

 

[_toommm_]

Looks like at the very least the locomotive has moved just now under the obfuscated headcode of 632C.

EDIT: Schedule is as follows:

Realtime Trains - 632C 1500 Sheffield to Dewsbury Blue Circle

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

EDIT: The above move looked to have about 15 wagons when it just passed me.

 

[bb21]

Looks like at the very least the locomotive has moved just now under the obfuscated headcode of 632C.

EDIT: Schedule is as follows:

Realtime Trains - 632C 1500 Sheffield to Dewsbury Blue Circle

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

EDIT: The above move looked to have about 15 wagons when it just passed me.

Running under original headcode 6E91 as a VSTP.

 

[Deepgreen]

16 trailers have been reported as derailed

'Wagons', as the railway calls them. The BBC have chosen to call them "carriages" and claims that NR called them that, but I would be VERY surprised if anyone in the rail industry would call cement wagons "carriages"!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Latest service status...

EMR
Liverpool-Norwich: operating normally
Sheffield-London: running hourly, the second train per hour starting/terminating Derby or Chesterfield (that one normally shunts out the north end of Sheffield station to Woodbourn Junction to stable between trips).

XC
running normally utilising single line working

TPE
running normally utilising single line working

NORTHERN
Sheffield-Manchester: running normally
Sheffield-Lincoln: replacement buses
Leeds-Nottingham: running normally utilising single line working
Leeds-Barnsley-Sheffield local: terminating Meadowhall, Supertram accepting train tickets Meadowhall-Sheffield
Leeds-Rotherham-Sheffield: terminating Meadowhall, Supertram accepting train tickets Rotherham Central and Meadowhall to Sheffield
York-Pontefract-Sheffield: suspended
Scarborough-Hull-Sheffield: terminating Doncaster, alternative services available Doncaster to Sheffield.
Doncaster-Sheffield all stations: replacement bus running Doncaster to Meadowhall, Supertram accepting train tickets Rotherham Central and Meadowhall to Sheffield

Supertram yellow route runs Middlewood - Sheffield Cathedral - Meadowhall up to every 15 minutes.
Supertram tram train route runs Sheffield Cathedral - Rotherham Central - Parkgate hourly.
Blue and Purple route provides a conncection from Sheffield Station to the Yellow and TT routes at Fitzalan Square.
Timetables https://www.stagecoachbus.com/news/...am-timetable-updates-from-saturday-7-november or use the Stagecoach app.

Latest train service updates: https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/today.aspx

Also not listed above is the Huddersfield to Sheffield service. Appears that is running between Huddersfield and Barnsley only, with some cancellations.

 

[bassmike]

There are some pictures of the derailed wagons in the following BBC article:

Sheffield freight train derailment causes major travel disruption

Disruption is expected to last all day due to the "low speed" freight train derailment in Sheffield.

www.bbc.co.uk

Looks like there is the dreaded bullhead track there--could this be a factor?

 

[ALEMASTER]

Also not listed above is the Huddersfield to Sheffield service. Appears that is running between Huddersfield and Barnsley only, with some cancellations.

well reminded, have edited the post.

 

[_toommm_]

Looks like there is the dreaded bullhead track there--could this be a factor?

The track on the two through roads between 1 and 2 has always looked pretty poor to be honest, especially the one closer to Platform 2.

 

[papageno]

'Wagons', as the railway calls them. The BBC have chosen to call them "carriages" and claims that NR called them that, but I would be VERY surprised if anyone in the rail industry would call cement wagons "carriages"!

NR have indeed referred to them as carriages. See the last paragraph of this https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/major-disruption-at-sheffield-station

 

[Tracked]

Looks like there is the dreaded bullhead track there--could this be a factor?

It's not the greatest quality around there, especially around the points from the centre line at the north of the platform (as opposed to the ones halfway down that the Cleethorpes train usually comes over)

 

[Crossover]

NR have indeed referred to them as carriages. See the last paragraph of this https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/major-disruption-at-sheffield-station

The key bit (for posterity) being

The derailment happened at about 2:45am, with a train carrying cement coming off the tracks while passing through platform one at the station. It was a slow speed derailment, but multiple carriages of the 34-car train have come off the tracks. There is no indication as to the cause at this time.

 

[tiptoptaff]

They can be unfurloughed though - there is no minimum furlough period anymore and it can be done on a part-time basis

But this isn't an instantaneous process. They can't get a phone call at say 9am asking for their buses as replacement transport and have their drivers unfurloughed and back in work by 10.

What you're suggesting is entirely possible for an extended block going in to a few days. But not last-minute coverage

 

[Amlag]

Looks like there is the dreaded bullhead track there--could this be a factor?

From the photos derailment looks to be on flat bottom track.

Don't be so sure that the derailment was caused by a track defect either !

 

[_toommm_]

Why can’t P6 be used? Seems perfectly accessible and allows you to have a down and an up train boarding at the same time.

 

[FrodshamJnct]

Why can’t P6 be used? Seems perfectly accessible and allows you to have a down and an up train boarding at the same time.

Signalling limitations I believe.