New 4-tier system for England

[C J Snarzell]

Don't forget "significant normality by November"

Boris didn't stipulate which year though. I'd go for 2027.

CJ

 

[43096]

Let’s hope he’s gone by then. Trouble is, as some on here have intimated, who on earth replaces him?

Sunak has been conspicuously quiet recently. It seems like even he’s given up now.

Not sure what happened to the quoting, as I didn’t post what you replied to!

 

[philjo]

There was a discussion on the radio earlier saying that there is an indication that the majority of the spread of the recent variant strain is amongst children. As schools are closed for 2 weeks over Christmas that should have an effect on slowing the spread but there are suggestions on the front page of today’s Telegraph that schools in tier 4 areas may delay reopening for the new term until late January.

 

[island]

I believe a national lockdown would require a vote in parliament, so I doubt we will see one.

All of the measures so far have required a vote in parliament, though the vote only need take place within 4 weeks after the measure being made.

The government has latterly given a political commitment to parliament that any nationwide measures would be put to the vote in the Commons prior to coming into effect, but it is only accountable to parliament for any breach of that commitment.

 

[bramling]

Oh dear, be careful doing things like that.

Who's going to put 10p on a national lockdown in January to slow the explosion in cases?

I’d put a lot more than 10p on it. The mood is very much leaning that way, either in the form of a lockdown, or at the very least tier 4 everywhere.

My big worry is I dread to think what the exit plan will be. Easter seems to be being touted. That’s untenable on so many levels.

 

[island]

Agreed – I’ll be extremely (though pleasantly) surprised if I get to sing the Gloria in Excelsis at the Easter Vigil in 2021.

 

[Mag_seven]

I’d put a lot more than 10p on it. The mood is very much leaning that way, either in the form of a lockdown, or at the very least tier 4 everywhere.

My big worry is I dread to think what the exit plan will be. Easter seems to be being touted. That’s untenable on so many levels.

I'd even bet on a return to a March 23rd style lockdown (Tier 5?)

Only very limited reasons to leave your house, no travelling to exercise, "key workers only" on public transport and no meeting anyone outdoors as well as in.

Oh and I wouldn't rule out a return to Thursday night "pot banging" again.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Agreed – I’ll be extremely (though pleasantly) surprised if I get to sing the Gloria in Excelsis at the Easter Vigil in 2021.

Never mind Gloria, we'll all be in excelsis if this goes by Easter!

Oh and I wouldn't rule out a return to Thursday night "pot banging" again.

The clap is scheduled annually now, last Thursday in March.

 

[bramling]

I'd even bet on a return to a March 23rd style lockdown (Tier 5?)

Only very limited reasons to leave your house, no travelling to exercise, "key workers only" on public transport and no meeting anyone outdoors as well as in.

Oh and I wouldn't rule out a return to Thursday night "pot banging" again.

I’d welcome a return of the pot banging, so long as this time everyone had to print out a picture of Johnson’s face and bang that. Hopefully someone might manage to do it with the real thing somewhere.

 

[kristiang85]

There was a discussion on the radio earlier saying that there is an indication that the majority of the spread of the recent variant strain is amongst children. As schools are closed for 2 weeks over Christmas that should have an effect on slowing the spread but there are suggestions on the front page of today’s Telegraph that schools in tier 4 areas may delay reopening for the new term until late January.

This is starting to get predictable now, the new "research" that's being put out to continue this constant stoking of fear - children were obviously going to be a target at some point. And Ferguson is involved too, which already rings my alarm bells.

I'm not saying it's not true, but looking at the details released, it seems flimsy at best and no enhanced risk apparent. Certainly nothing yet to spark the headlines the media are revelling in. Maybe that will change down the line, but right now I'm taking it with a huge pinch of salt.

 

[21C101]

Reports today of a major outbreak in an Antarctica research station.

Given that no one would have been allowed near it without isolating /testing first, it make me wonder if we are getting it wrong as to how it spreads.

Could the thing live for a long time in frozen, canned, freeze dried food. Is it airborne and able to travel long distances, particularly in cold areas. Can dogs carry it without getting ill themselves? There is so much we don't know.

 

[adc82140]

I’d put a lot more than 10p on it. The mood is very much leaning that way, either in the form of a lockdown, or at the very least tier 4 everywhere.

My big worry is I dread to think what the exit plan will be. Easter seems to be being touted. That’s untenable on so many levels.

The exit plan is the Oxford vaccine (It's not if but when). It'll be announced in a way that makes Boris the saviour. (I predict Xmas eve). Then we'll have vaccination on a much bigger scale, which the government will take the credit for, and will deign to lift some restrictions.

 

[NorthOxonian]

The exit plan is the Oxford vaccine (It's not if but when). It'll be announced in a way that makes Boris the saviour. (I predict Xmas eve). Then we'll have vaccination on a much bigger scale, which the government will take the credit for, and will deign to lift some restrictions.

I agree with every word of this except "eve" - I think they'll bring Johnson out to announce it on Christmas Day. Wouldn't surprise me if they did something incredibly tacky like dressing him as Santa (after all it's the biggest christmas "present" we could receive).

 

[notlob.divad]

I agree with every word of this except "eve" - I think they'll bring Johnson out to announce it on Christmas Day. Wouldn't surprise me if they did something incredibly tacky like dressing him as Santa (after all it's the biggest christmas "present" we could receive).

Queenie is on at 3pm. Wouldn't put it past him to scheduule a news conference at the same time. (Or starting at 10 past just when her message finishes)

 

[Bantamzen]

I'd even bet on a return to a March 23rd style lockdown (Tier 5?)

Only very limited reasons to leave your house, no travelling to exercise, "key workers only" on public transport and no meeting anyone outdoors as well as in.

Oh and I wouldn't rule out a return to Thursday night "pot banging" again.

I wonder if that will still relate to all key workers from March, or just those that the government think are "key" enough to get a pay rise....??

Reports today of a major outbreak in an Antarctica research station.

Given that no one would have been allowed near it without isolating /testing first, it make me wonder if we are getting it wrong as to how it spreads.

Could the thing live for a long time in frozen, canned, freeze dried food. Is it airborne and able to travel long distances, particularly in cold areas. Can dogs carry it without getting ill themselves? There is so much we don't know.

Maybe they should only be meeting each other outdoors..??

 

[MikeWM]

Reports today of a major outbreak in an Antarctica research station.

Given that no one would have been allowed near it without isolating /testing first, it make me wonder if we are getting it wrong as to how it spreads.

Could the thing live for a long time in frozen, canned, freeze dried food. Is it airborne and able to travel long distances, particularly in cold areas. Can dogs carry it without getting ill themselves? There is so much we don't know.

Sounds oddly similar to this historic example of an unexplained outbreak of the common cold after months of isolation:

https://www.cambridge.org/core/jour...te-isolation/1D3A49463583D06CEACE1CCF9C1A25B4

Six of 12 men wintering at an isolated Antarctic base sequentially developed symptoms and signs of a common cold after 17 weeks of complete isolation. Examination of specimens taken from the men in relation to the outbreak has not revealed a causative agent.

Nature does what it will.

 

[Philip]

I think a strict 2 week national lockdown with same rules as lockdown 1 from Mon 28th December to Sunday 10th January might be a good idea, but with a guarantee/law for the whole country to return to tier 2 (rules as now) at the end of the 2 weeks regardless of infection rates and then for the tier 2 to remain the same nationwide for a month, before a review. Give the police powers to get tough on people who blatantly and recklessly ignore the rules - including jail sentences for the people who organise these big drunken house parties, who up to now have been hit with £10000 fine at worst. The deterrent needs to be there.

It'd be a tough 2 weeks, but made easier by knowing the timescale and with a guarantee of improvements after the 2 week lockdown finishes. It would be easier to handle than the uncertainty we currently have, not knowing which tier we will be in next week, how long in the new tier etc. I think more people would comply with this kind of system.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

Guard on a Gatwick Express train just announced ‘we are now approaching East Croydon station which is in Tier 4. Please note that face coverings must be worn at all times’

No mention that exemptions apply as much in this tier as in all the others

 

[roversfan2001]

I think a strict 2 week national lockdown with same rules as lockdown 1 from Mon 28th December to Sunday 10th January might be a good idea, but with a guarantee/law for the whole country to return to tier 2 (rules as now) at the end of the 2 weeks regardless of infection rates and then for the tier 2 to remain the same nationwide for a month, before a review. Give the police powers to get tough on people who blatantly and recklessly ignore the rules - including jail sentences for the people who organise these big drunken house parties, who up to now have been hit with £10000 fine at worst. The deterrent needs to be there.

It'd be a tough 2 weeks, but made easier by knowing the timescale and with a guarantee of improvements after the 2 week lockdown finishes. It would be easier to handle than the uncertainty we currently have, not knowing which tier we will be in next week, how long in the new tier etc. I think more people would comply with this kind of system.

I'd wager money that a 2 week lockdown followed by 4 weeks of Tier 2 would cause more harm than good to a great number of people. And what about the areas in Tier 1 currently? Surely they shouldn't be expected to have harsher restrictions than at present.

 

[kristiang85]

Reports today of a major outbreak in an Antarctica research station.

Given that no one would have been allowed near it without isolating /testing first, it make me wonder if we are getting it wrong as to how it spreads.

Could the thing live for a long time in frozen, canned, freeze dried food. Is it airborne and able to travel long distances, particularly in cold areas. Can dogs carry it without getting ill themselves? There is so much we don't know.

Given the number of outbreaks in frozen meat packing plans across Europe this year, there could be something in that.

 

[C J Snarzell]

Queenie is on at 3pm. Wouldn't put it past him to scheduule a news conference at the same time. (Or starting at 10 past just when her message finishes)

At least Her Majesty is positive, optimistic and does not fill us with false promises like that idiot at Downing Street. I very much doubt Andrew or Harry will be mentioned in this year's Queens speech though!!!

CJ

 

[Kite159]

I believe a national lockdown would require a vote in parliament, so I doubt we will see one.

Instead I think we will see the whole of England, except for the Scilly Isles moved to Tier 4.

And even the Scilly isles will be moved into tier 3 I reckon. Maybe even another small area will remain tier 3 to avoid 'national' status.

In my eyes it's only a matter of time, to be honest when I heard about the press conference yesterday I was expecting it then.

 

[duncanp]

If the government does institute a full new year lockdown put everywhere in England into Tier 4 then MPs should really grow a pair and insist that there is an exit strategy from the endless cycle of lockdowns once and for all.

The criteria for moving down the tiers should be spelt out explicitly, and should be related to the infection rate, the percentage of vulnerable people who have been vaccinated and projected hospital capacity.

Having an end in sight would give people some hope, and might actually induce people to comply with the restrictions a bit more.

If there is no end in sight, people will just say, "sod it, I can't be bothered any more, as anything I do is not going to make a difference".

 

[Domh245]

I think a strict 2 week national lockdown with same rules as lockdown 1 from Mon 28th December to Sunday 10th January might be a good idea, but with a guarantee/law for the whole country to return to tier 2 (rules as now) at the end of the 2 weeks regardless of infection rates and then for the tier 2 to remain the same nationwide for a month, before a review

A lovely idea, but almost certain not to happen, at least the everyone comes out in tier 2 bit. Back in march we saw that it took 2 weeks from the imposition of the lockdown for cases to plateau, let alone decrease. As we saw with the welsh firebreak, it achieves bugger all, and I don't see them easing the restrictions to tier 2 in places in the South East if the case numbers are still very high. All you'd do is manage to lose even more engagement by going back on the promise to huge swathes of the country

Guard on a Gatwick Express train just announced ‘we are now approaching East Croydon station which is in Tier 4. Please note that face coverings must be worn at all times’

No mention that exemptions apply as much in this tier as in all the others

It's an odd announcement to make in the first place beyond the lack of note about exemptions. Anyone getting onboard the GatEx service is onboard until London, which is all in Tier 4, so why the announcement? Indeed, isn't Gatwick itself in Tier 4 (if not right on the border of it?)

 

[Kite159]

Gatwick Express isn't currently running so I would guess it was a Southern branded Brighton - Victoria service using Gatwick Express stock.

Gatwick Airport is tier 2

 

[bengley]

Hearing rumours that the PM is to make an announcement today regarding reducing or stopping public transport in tier 4 areas.

As I say only a rumour with no source at this time but watch this space.

 

[Kite159]

Hearing rumours that the PM is to make an announcement today regarding reducing or stopping public transport in tier 4 areas.

As I say only a rumour with no source at this time but watch this space.

Can't see him stopping it outright, would go down like a lead balloon for those essential workers who have to use the train/bus to get to work etc

 

[bengley]

Can't see him stopping it outright, would go down like a lead balloon for those essential workers who have to use the train/bus to get to work etc

I agree, I thought that too. However the information I've heard is coupled with information that a train operator in the south east is working on a timetable to suit the restrictions

 

[bramling]

Can't see him stopping it outright, would go down like a lead balloon for those essential workers who have to use the train/bus to get to work etc

I suspect it will be “essential journeys only” again. That was being strongly rumoured at my place when I was last there before the weekend.

It seems we’re heading for a replay of March.

 

[Kite159]

I agree, I thought that too. However the information I've heard is coupled with information that a train operator in the south east is working on a timetable to suit the restrictions

Back to a "key worker" style timetable with off-peak services reduced would be my prediction.

Restricted to "essential" travel only.