TFW Pacer withdrawals

[Buzz68]

142072 hasnt been used for a while and is meant to be Sims Newport bound 142075 is working today with a 150, 077 is probably gone too as not worked for a bit.
Aside from 075, it looks as if the only other 142 out is 142006

Last saw 142077 on the 13.12.20 at Taffs Well on the 2T06

I believe that TfW only have 006, 075, 077 and 085 left available so it will be interesting to see which, maybe all, appear in what supposed to be their final week.

 

[ccityplanner12]

A silly question I know, but am I right to assume the Pacers are only operating on the platforms 5-6-7 suburbans or do they make it out to Newport, Ebbw Vale, Swansea or West Wales?

 

[PHILIPE]

A silly question I know, but am I right to assume the Pacers are only operating on the platforms 5-6-7 suburbans or do they make it out to Newport, Ebbw Vale, Swansea or West Wales?

There is no Platform 5 in existence as it was filled in about 50 years ago. They can be seen on platforms 6,7 and 8 assuming you are talking about Cardiff Central. They do occasions still venture away from the Cardiff Valleys and have been to Cheltenham recently. The 142s will be finished this week.

 

[craigybagel]

A silly question I know, but am I right to assume the Pacers are only operating on the platforms 5-6-7 suburbans or do they make it out to Newport, Ebbw Vale, Swansea or West Wales?

There is no Platform 5 in existence as it was filled in about 50 years ago. They can be seen on platforms 6,7 and 8 assuming you are talking about Cardiff Central. They do occasions still venture away from the Cardiff Valleys and have been to Cheltenham recently. The 142s will be finished this week.

The nice thing about using them on VOG services is that despite the limited amount of services they're working, they're still worked every day by both Mainline and Valleys crews, meaning they can still be sent to the same parts of the network they've always worked over if required as there aren't much issues with traincrew competence.

 

[Jez]

A silly question I know, but am I right to assume the Pacers are only operating on the platforms 5-6-7 suburbans or do they make it out to Newport, Ebbw Vale, Swansea or West Wales?

I cant remember the last time i saw a pacer down Swansea way (aside from those out of service going to Landore). At the start of 2020, before covid, they seemed to be regularly turning up on Pembroke Dock, Fishguard, plus the Saturday Swanline diagram and a weekday early morning working Cardiff to Milford and back to Cardiff (the one which didnt go to Manchester at the time).

 

[St. Paddy]

TFW class 143s have now been given dispensation by the DFT to continue running until 31.5.21

 

[PHILIPE]

Dispensation for all TFW 143s now issued and available here:-

www.gov.uk/government/collections/heavy-rail-fleets-2020-targeted-compliance.

The dispensation expires on May 31st 2021 likewise with non-PRM Class 153s, the latter being renumbered as 153/0s, i.e. 153009 etc. There seems to be 2 more 153s in the pipeline, 153318 and 153368 without any mention of the WMR ones as previously suggested.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Dispensation for all TFW 143s now issued and available here:-

www.gov.uk/government/collections/heavy-rail-fleets-2020-targeted-compliance.

The dispensation expires on May 31st 2021 likewise with non-PRM Class 153s, the latter being renumbered as 153/0s, i.e. 153009 etc. There seems to be 2 more 153s in the pipeline, 153318 and 153368 without any mention of the WMR ones as previously suggested.

When you say "2 more in the pipeline" do you mean for getting the PRM work? Or just inclusion in the Welsh list of non-PRM units with dispensation to stay in traffic?

 

[PHILIPE]

When you say "2 more in the pipeline" do you mean for getting the PRM work? Or just inclusion in the Welsh list of non-PRM units with dispensation to stay in traffic?

No PRMs. 153318 and 153368

 

[61653 HTAFC]

No PRMs. To be 153018 and 153068

Thanks.

 

[PHILIPE]

Thanks.

318 and 368 together with 372 and 382 which arrived several weeks ago are Angel ones. The others are Porterbrook

 

[Cardiff123]

Latest Modern Railways (January 2021) says that TfW now intend to keep hold of all of the 153s they currently have and make them all PRM compliant. I assume this means the ex-GA and ex-EMT liveried 153s they have.

 

[sd0733]

A silly question I know, but am I right to assume the Pacers are only operating on the platforms 5-6-7 suburbans or do they make it out to Newport, Ebbw Vale, Swansea or West Wales?

One should be heading to Swansea later, 143616 and a 153 on their way from Rhymney now are swapping at Cardiff to do the 18:06 to Swansea.

Latest Modern Railways (January 2021) says that TfW now intend to keep hold of all of the 153s they currently have and make them all PRM compliant. I assume this means the ex-GA and ex-EMT liveried 153s they have.

Thats certainly not what they have said internally. They are still classed as temporary and will be in service for a short time.

 

[Cardiff123]

Thats certainly not what they have said internally. They are still classed as temporary and will be in service for a short time.

Don't shoot the messenger. I'm just reporting what I've read.

The paragraph about 153s says:
The operator [TfW] is retaining all 22 of it's class 153 DMUs and plans to make them all PRM compliant. Modification work has already been completed on 13 '153s' , with the remaining nine to follow. Non-compliant units will again run coupled to a compliant '153' or '150'.

Here's a screenshot of the story from page 103

 

[sd0733]

Don't shoot the messenger. I'm just reporting what I've read.

The paragraph about 153s says:
The operator [TfW] is retaining all 22 of it's class 153 DMUs and plans to make them all PRM compliant. Modification work has already been completed on 13 '153s' , with the remaining nine to follow. Non-compliant units will again run coupled to a compliant '153' or '150'.

Here's a screenshot of the story from page 103
View attachment 87844

I didnt mean to imply you were wrong, apologies if it came across that way. The info in the mag and what tfw have told staff, even today on the briefs about toilets and renumbering dont tally up.
That being said, The magazine must have the information from somewhere and to be honest it would make a lot of sense, particularly if they were PRM'd but without the big toilet and
semi-permanently run in pairs, to avoid losing such a large amount of seats per pair, with the extras there will be 13 non-prm and 13 PRM.

 

[Cardiff123]

I didnt mean to imply you were wrong, apologies if it came across that way. The info in the mag and what tfw have told staff, even today on the briefs about toilets and renumbering dont tally up. The magazine must have the information from somewhere and to be honest it would make a lot of sense, particularly if they were PRM but without the big toilet and permanently run in pairs, to avoid losing such a large amount of seats per pair

No need to apologise, it was the best phrase I could think of to describe that I was just relaying what is in the magazine.
There's also an in-depth interview in the magazine with Andrew Gainsbury, TfW rolling stock manager, about the introduction of the 769s, so maybe the info has come from that interview.

 

[PHILIPE]

Don't shoot the messenger. I'm just reporting what I've read.

The paragraph about 153s says:
The operator [TfW] is retaining all 22 of it's class 153 DMUs and plans to make them all PRM compliant. Modification work has already been completed on 13 '153s' , with the remaining nine to follow. Non-compliant units will again run coupled to a compliant '153' or '150'.

Here's a screenshot of the story from page 103
View attachment 87844

One irregularity to start with. Modern Railway quotes 22 but there are actually 24. They don't seem to have counted 153372 and 153382 which arrived some weeks ago but, as far as I know, haven't entered traffic yet. Post 376 quotes 24, 13 PRM and 13 non

 

[sd0733]

One irregularity to start with. Modern Railway quotes 22 but there are actually 24. They don't seem to have counted 153372 and 153382 which arrived some weeks ago but, as far as I know, haven't entered traffic yet. Post 376 quotes 24, 13 PRM and 13 non

Theres been 22 units up until now, presumably thats where that figure comes from. I agree about 372 and 382 theyve not left Canton as far as i know and i dont think the other 2 have arrived at all. Those 4 would make 26 in total, 13 midded and 13 not.

 

[PHILIPE]

Theres been 22 units up until now, presumably thats where that figure comes from. I agree about 372 and 382 theyve not left Canton as far as i know and i dont think have arrived at all. Those 4 would make 26 in total, 13 midded and 13 not.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K00227/2020-11-05/detailed

Wasn't this the movement of 372 and 382 ? Alleged in a group at the time but I'm ignoring the Timing Load !!!

 

[sd0733]

www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K00227/2020-11-05/detailed

Wasn't this the movement of 372 and 382 ?

I worded that really badly, i meant to say the other 2, 318+368 havent yet arrived.

 

[PHILIPE]

Theres been 22 units up until now, presumably thats where that figure comes from. I agree about 372 and 382 theyve not left Canton as far as i know and i dont think have arrived at all. Those 4 would make 26 in total, 13 midded and 13 not.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K00227/2020-11-05/detailed

Wasn't this the movement of 372 and 382

I worded that really badly, i meant to say the other 2, 318+368 havent yet arrived.

There was a movement planned on the 4th and the 5th but only one operated. Perhaps that should have been the other pair ?

 

[Bikeman78]

I didnt mean to imply you were wrong, apologies if it came across that way. The info in the mag and what tfw have told staff, even today on the briefs about toilets and renumbering dont tally up.
That being said, The magazine must have the information from somewhere and to be honest it would make a lot of sense, particularly if they were PRM'd but without the big toilet and
semi-permanently run in pairs, to avoid losing such a large amount of seats per pair, with the extras there will be 13 non-prm and 13 PRM.

Unless I'm being dull, I can't see anything in those letters on the government website that says a 143 or non compliant has to run attached to another unit. However, I've read elsewhere that units with toilets that dump on the track will have the toilets locked out from the new year. This limits what those units can do.

 

[Cardiff123]

One irregularity to start with. Modern Railway quotes 22 but there are actually 24. They don't seem to have counted 153372 and 153382 which arrived some weeks ago but, as far as I know, haven't entered traffic yet. Post 376 quotes 24, 13 PRM and 13 non

Regardless of the numbers, as it's obvious the extra 4 x 153s that TfW have obtained/secured recently haven't been included in the total quoted in the story, there must be some truth to the story. MR is not a publication known for printing blatantly false information. I guess we'll find out in the next month or two if the currently unmodified 153s start being sent away for TfW style refurbs and/or PRM mods.

 

[StripeyNick]

I'm guessing by the fact there are now the extra ex-EMR units, that the ex-LMR units that started to come down are now no longer coming?

 

[sd0733]

www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K00227/2020-11-05/detailed

Wasn't this the movement of 372 and 382



There was a movement planned on the 4th and the 5th but only one operated. Perhaps that should have been the other pair ?

It could be, but there would usually be some reports or photos somewhere. Could just be with all the restrictions and bad weather they got down unnoticed

Unless I'm being dull, I can't see anything in those letters on the government website that says a 143 or non compliant has to run attached to another unit. However, I've read elsewhere that units with toilets that dump on the track will have the toilets locked out from the new year. This limits what those units can do.

Thats what is being briefed to staff. There was an agreement with Network Rail that all non tank fitted units will have toilets locked out.
Presumably the 143s will run with prm 153s and the rest of the 153s will be paired modified+unmodified. It does seem to limit flexibility quite a bit but it cant be pushed down the road forever running non compliant units

 

[Bikeman78]

It could be, but there would usually be some reports or photos somewhere. Could just be with all the restrictions and bad weather they got down unnoticed


Thats what is being briefed to staff. There was an agreement with Network Rail that all non tank fitted units will have toilets locked out.
Presumably the 143s will run with prm 153s and the rest of the 153s will be paired modified+unmodified. It does seem to limit flexibility quite a bit but it cant be pushed down the road forever running non compliant units

Well indeed. For the money spent on the 769 project, I reckon they could have done the PRM mods on all 30 Pacers, though I'm sure no one will thank me for pointing that out!

 

[PHILIPE]

Well indeed. For the money spent on the 769 project, I reckon they could have done the PRM mods on all 30 Pacers, though I'm sure no one will thank me for pointing that out!

Failing Grayling when he was in position said they must go ASAP. About the only thing he got right.

 

[Caaardiff]

A number of the 'temporary' 153s that came from Porterbrook were there to cover the 769 delays. If they have derogation until mid way through the year then you'd think it wouldn't be a problem.
To me it looks like they aren't expecting all the 769s to be in service in the next 6 months, meaning the 153s will be required and I'm guessing non prm isn't then an option in June. If the money is being spent on the PRM mods then it might well justify keeping the things in the fleet, rather than spending all that money to just get rid of them when the 769s are fully operational.
Unless of course, porterbrook are paying for the mods...

 

[43096]

A number of the 'temporary' 153s that came from Porterbrook were there to cover the 769 delays. If they have derogation until mid way through the year then you'd think it wouldn't be a problem.
To me it looks like they aren't expecting all the 769s to be in service in the next 6 months, meaning the 153s will be required and I'm guessing non prm isn't then an option in June. If the money is being spent on the PRM mods then it might well justify keeping the things in the fleet, rather than spending all that money to just get rid of them when the 769s are fully operational.
Unless of course, porterbrook are paying for the mods...

There comes a point that the 769 delays are down to the TOC not getting the training on them done (for whatever reason) rather than non-availability of the trains. At that point if TfW still want the 153s then Porterbrook should be charging them for the privilege.

 

[adrock1976]

There comes a point that the 769 delays are down to the TOC not getting the training on them done (for whatever reason) rather than non-availability of the trains. At that point if TfW still want the 153s then Porterbrook should be charging them for the privilege.

Being as the 153s were built in 1987, diesel trains are/were designed to have an operational lifespan of 30 years (electrics are designed for 40 years).

As the 153s are now 33 - 34 years old, this means that they would be as good as worthless in terms of depreciation of fixed assets in accounting terms.

After all, the 142s which were built in 1985-86 were designed and intended to have an operational lifespan of 15 years, meaning that since 2001 onwards, somebody, somewhere, has ensured that a racketeering operation has gone on for a long time looking at it from the outside.